Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[irishpatrick]

I think those who enjoy HP books understand what this “future Pope”(I’m not extremely familiar with the process of who becomes the next Pope but isn’t it an election after the death of the current Pope?), the exorcists and all this other info you are bringing to light are saying. I understand it anyway, but I have no fear of my personal involvement with the occult, because it will never happen. And I’ll offer my children a chance to read the HP books when and if I feel they are mature enough to differentiate between fictional entertainment and reality.

Which brings me to my ultimate point.

The future Pope and these exorcists don’t know bbarrick8383 from Oklahoma.

Very true. However, you are a Catholic and you do owe a debt to the full body of Christ and to the world at large. You are expected to provide as clean and holy a witness as you possibly can. You know full well that the HP stories might be bad for weaker minds, and I am glad you are on-top of your own souls and your kids (I wish more were); however, people around certainly know you read the books and see the movies, you are being a witness for HP in those cases…you (a Catholic) are telling the world it is perfectly fine to read and watch HP.

Pretty much everything we do has some impact seen or unseen.

 

[irishpatrick]

No, I know of no strong Catholic who would say that HP is safe for less formed minds. Therefore, my figures are reasonable.

Catholics can and will do whatever they want. My point is that we are called to a higher place, we are called to be different and we are called to be witnesses to the world in everything we do.

We are supposed to show the world the reason for why they should become Christians, yet if we look and live and behave exactly like everyone else, than why should they think being a Catholic or a Christian is worth anything…

 

[irishpatrick]

See here’s the problem. Yesterday, I was prodding you because I really am interested in what Father Euteneuer was getting at, and you got upset with me for splitting hairs.

You assumed that I was just trying to win a debate, when in truth, my motivations are directed toward a meaningful understanding of the warnings.

Perhaps you’re exhausted from arguing this ad nauseum, and of course I’ll forgive you for implying that I had less than honest intentions, but you need to realize that charity is due on your end also. Many of the people here who disagree with you are trying to understand what Father Euteneuer and others are concerned about, it’s not right to write them all off as closed and stubborn.

You are correct and I apologize.

 

[irishpatrick]

My question with all this is simple: WHY EVEN BOTHER WITH HP? If there is even a one-percent chance that some kids will fall into bad things because of HP, than why should any Christian go near HP?

Over 400,000,000 copies of the books have been sold. Those books are often loaned to others to read (and this is not even including the movies). Now, if even one-percent of one-percent felll into doing bad things, than that would equate to 40,000 people at a bare minimum. Now, there are a lot more than one-percent of one-percent of people standing in a weakened or vulnerable spiritual state, So, let’s be more realistic and say one-percent of all people (who read or saw HP) might be susceptible…that equates to 400,000 people who might fall into bad things as result of reading HP. Now, include the movies, and include the loaned copies, and keep the base at one-percent, and it becomes easy to see that at least 1,000,000 people might very easily fall prey to HP stories.

Let me put a tighter focus on my numbers. We all know the absolutely terrible harm the sexual abuse crisis has done to the victims, their families, and to the faith/Church. Yet, those abuses came from a mere 3-4% of all Priests during the scandal period. That obviously means the overwhelming majority (96-97%) of all Priests never did abuse, yet look at the extended damage that has been brought by those 3-4%. Now, turn that to my numbers for HP, if I am even remotely close (and I think my numbers are way low), and if one-percent is a fair base, than the extended damage to souls will be quite enormous over the course of time…millions of souls placed at risk.

Avoid even the near occaision to sin. Catholics seem to have forget that.

 

[Havard]

Let’s remember: Tolkien was writing from a Christian (Catholic) perspective, not a pagan/agnostic perspective.

The symbolism is immense in Tolkien’s novels. Not so much in Rowling’s.

Rowling purports to be a Christian and that her faith influenced her writing.

In charity, I’ll take her at her word, although I will make two comments about the above:

1. If Christianity influenced her work, it’s far less evident than as with Tolkein or Lewis.
2. Faith aside, Tolkein and Lewis were on different literary and philosophical levels than Rowling. Whereas Rowling is competent and imaginative, they are simply brilliant.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Very true. However, you are a Catholic and you do owe a debt to the full body of Christ and to the world at large. You are expected to provide as clean and holy a witness as you possibly can. You know full well that the HP stories might be bad for weaker minds, and I am glad you are on-top of your own souls and your kids (I wish more were); however, people around certainly know you read the books and see the movies, you are being a witness for HP in those cases…you (a Catholic) are telling the world it is perfectly fine to read and watch HP.

Pretty much everything we do has some impact seen or unseen.

LOL, actually very few people know I have read the whole HP series. Watch the Lord of the Rings movies whenever I get a chance, have played LOTRO the game, Star Wars, Star Wars galaxies and play World of Warcraft. There’s just not that many people in my circle of family/friends that do those sorts of things. They’d rather be deer hunting than reading a book.

As a matter of fact, being a big fan of adventure books/games regardless of whether or not it has magic in it. Your focus, as well as that of the future Pope and the exorcists would be better targeted at something like WoW. I have personally experienced people going absolutely nuts in that game and there are videos on youtube of kids freaking out because their parents canceled their subscription. You might have a better shot of convincing me there that demon possession is real. If I’m not mistaken there was even a mentally disturbed person(he had mental problems before the game came out) who committed suicide over an MMORPG. I believe it was Everquest though, not WoW.

I would concede that HP books could lead to playing MMO’s like WoW. But just like anything else in life a lack of moderation can lead to some bad stuff. I’m sure some could and would argue that Root Beer might lead to drinking alcohol.

I’ve never seen anything bad come from HP.

 

[rlg94086]

I have no doubt the Pope trusted him, yet his statements are still his statements.

Okay. Do you at least acknowledge that he is a serious Catholic and that serious Catholics can disagree with you about Harry Potter?

Regarding the rest of your comments, there have been no Harry Potter issues in my household with any of those who have read them (ages 10, 17 and 20), nor do I expect there to be any problem with my two younger kids. What has your experience with your own kids been that has led you to the conclusions you have come to?

 

[irishpatrick]

Okay. Do you at least acknowledge that he is a serious Catholic and that serious Catholics can disagree with you about Harry Potter?

Regarding the rest of your comments, there have been no Harry Potter issues in my household with any of those who have read them (ages 10, 17 and 20), nor do I expect there to be any problem with my two younger kids. What has your experience with your own kids been that has led you to the conclusions you have come to?

With my views, yes of course. However, regarding the statements by one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catechism, I would say NO.

 

[irishpatrick]

It does neither…it shows how a very small percentage can damage the whole.

 

[irishpatrick]

LOL, actually very few people know I have read the whole HP series. Watch the Lord of the Rings movies whenever I get a chance, have played LOTRO the game, Star Wars, Star Wars galaxies and play World of Warcraft. There’s just not that many people in my circle of family/friends that do those sorts of things. They’d rather be deer hunting than reading a book.

As a matter of fact, being a big fan of adventure books/games regardless of whether or not it has magic in it. Your focus, as well as that of the future Pope and the exorcists would be better targeted at something like WoW. I have personally experienced people going absolutely nuts in that game and there are videos on youtube of kids freaking out because their parents canceled their subscription. You might have a better shot of convincing me there that demon possession is real. If I’m not mistaken there was even a mentally disturbed person(he had mental problems before the game came out) who committed suicide over an MMORPG. I believe it was Everquest though, not WoW.

I would concede that HP books could lead to playing MMO’s like WoW. But just like anything else in life a lack of moderation can lead to some bad stuff. I’m sure some could and would argue that Root Beer might lead to drinking alcohol.

I’ve never seen anything bad come from HP.

Okay then, thanks.

 

[Havard]

You are correct and I apologize.

If no one else says it, I know that your motivations are very good, and I appreciate that.

Whether or not we agree on every point in this thread, we must look out for one another and we must agree that there is a devil and that his presence in our world needs to be seen for what it is.

 

[bbarrick8383]

My question with all this is simple: WHY EVEN BOTHER WITH HP? If there is even a one-percent chance that some kids will fall into bad things because of HP, than why should any Christian go near HP?

Over 400,000,000 copies of the books have been sold. Those books are often loaned to others to read (and this is not even including the movies). Now, if even one-percent of one-percent felll into doing bad things, than that would equate to 40,000 people at a bare minimum. Now, there are a lot more than one-percent of one-percent of people standing in a weakened or vulnerable spiritual state, So, let’s be more realistic and say one-percent of all people (who read or saw HP) might be susceptible…that equates to 400,000 people who might fall into bad things as result of reading HP. Now, include the movies, and include the loaned copies, and keep the base at one-percent, and it becomes easy to see that at least 1,000,000 people might very easily fall prey to HP stories.

Let me put a tighter focus on my numbers. We all know the absolutely terrible harm the sexual abuse crisis has done to the victims, their families, and to the faith/Church. Yet, those abuses came from a mere 3-4% of all Priests during the scandal period. That obviously means the overwhelming majority (96-97%) of all Priests never did abuse, yet look at the extended damage that has been brought by those 3-4%. Now, turn that to my numbers for HP, if I am even remotely close (and I think my numbers are way low), and if one-percent is a fair base, than the extended damage to souls will be quite enormous over the course of time…millions of souls placed at risk.

Avoid even the near occaision to sin. Catholics seem to have forget that.

Using this argument, we should avoid reading the Bible without an expert on hand to explain in detail what the history, context and understanding was of much of the scripture.

Scott LaFrance wrote a great post the other day explaining what was going on when Jesus was talking about giving to Ceasar what was Ceasars. I never would have known about it had he not explained it. Should I not then read the bible out of fear that I may misunderstand something?

You have a good point, but it’s not practical. Because the reading and misunderstanding of the Bible has led to all sorts of problems in every religion. But we should not be afraid to open it up and learn from it.

 

[rlg94086]

Let me put a tighter focus on my numbers. We all know the absolutely terrible harm the sexual abuse crisis has done to the victims, their families, and to the faith/Church. Yet, those abuses came from a mere 3-4% of all Priests during the scandal period. That obviously means the overwhelming majority (96-97%) of all Priests never did abuse, yet look at the extended damage that has been brought by those 3-4%. Now, turn that to my numbers for HP, if I am even remotely close (and I think my numbers are way low), and if one-percent is a fair base, than the extended damage to souls will be quite enormous over the course of time…millions of souls placed at risk.

You lost me. Are you arguing that we shouldn’t expose our children to priests at all, because 3-4% may sexually abuse them?

 

[bbarrick8383]

If no one else says it, I know that your motivations are very good, and I appreciate that.

Whether or not we agree on every point in this thread, we must look out for one another and we must agree that there is a devil and that his presence in our world needs to be seen for what it is.

I think that’s something we can all agree on.

 

[irishpatrick]

After a long time spent on this thread, I will conclude my presence with this post.

I personally find it interesting that Fr. Euteneuer has stated that he feels the Church will face a greater need for exorcisms in the near future, while at nearly the same time the USA Bishops are calling for more exorcists to be placed on staff across the nation.

Make whatever you want of that, yet I do not think it is an accident. The Catholic faith is very weak in the world, and also in the USA, and HP is incredibly strong. Perhaps the sources I have sighted are not enough to prove any point (let the reader decide), yet there does seem as if there are plenty of weaker Catholics in the world today.

All I ask is that you give honest prayer and thought to this. Perhaps even bring it to the Lord in Adoration, or place it in the hands of our loving Mother Mary or both.

God Bless and thanks for the robust discussion.

 

[rlg94086]

It does neither…it shows how a very small percentage can damage the whole.

Sorry. Point already made and (poorly) countered.

 

[irishpatrick]

You lost me. Are you arguing that we shouldn’t expose our children to priests at all, because 3-4% may sexually abuse them?

Nope, the opposite actually, maybe I said it wrong.

Take care.

 

[irishpatrick]

You are still not getting what I am saying. I am saying that a small percentage does a great deal of harm and that most people argue HP is okay because it will do know harm, or very little harm. Very little harm when we are speaking of a billion people still becomes a very large number.

Take care.

 

[irishpatrick]

If no one else says it, I know that your motivations are very good, and I appreciate that.

Whether or not we agree on every point in this thread, we must look out for one another and we must agree that there is a devil and that his presence in our world needs to be seen for what it is.

Thank you for that. I do appreciate it.

Take care.

 

[rlg94086]

After a long time spent on this thread, I will conclude my presence with this post.

I personally find it interesting that Fr. Euteneuer has stated that he feels the Church will face a greater need for exorcisms in the near future, while at nearly the same time the USA Bishops are calling for more exorcists to be placed on staff across the nation.

Make whatever you want of that, yet I do not think it is an accident. The Catholic faith is very weak in the world, and also in the USA, and HP is incredibly strong. Perhaps the sources I have sighted are not enough to prove any point (let the reader decide), yet there does seem as if there are plenty of weaker Catholics in the world today.

All I ask is that you give honest prayer and thought to this. Perhaps even bring it to the Lord in Adoration, or place it in the hands of our loving Mother Mary or both.

God Bless and thanks for the robust discussion.

Thank you for the thread. It has been an interesting discussion. I will stick with the strong Catholics who don’t see Harry Potter as a big deal.

All I ask is that you give honest prayer and thought to this. Perhaps even bring it to the Lord in Adoration, or place it in the hands of our loving Mother Mary or both.