Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[John_of_Woking]

I see lots of opinions, I don’t see any facts. This isn’t a personal attack on anyone, it is what it is, there are no facts to support the claim that HP is leading people down diabolical paths. Anyone, especially an expert who wants people to believe his claim, is supposed to base an opinion on facts.

I would like to preface my post by stating that I am still not ‘convinced’ that Harry Potter is a **grave danger **and is necessarily leading people down diabolical paths…However here are some facts…

FACTish 1
The fact is exorcists wouldn’t waste their time warning people of the dangers of Harry Potter if didnt draw people (maybe weak youth steeped in relativism) of the occult. The supernatural is an exorcist’s forte (not fortean ). They can often get to the cause from the effect. They are blessed in their ministry.

'FACT’ish 2
Wiccan groups all over the world are claiming that HP has drawn people into the occult. Why? Because the people drawn to the occult because of Harry Potter tell them so. They can’t all be liars all the time. Ergo HP could be said to be leading people down diabolical paths. That is a fact

Now for the cut and paste ​

The Wiccan group, Children of Artemis, has coordinated this year’s local gathering of witches to be held in Glasgow, Scotland.
“There is a growing interest in the Wiccan religion, and there are thousands of us already in Scotland,” organizer Pauline Reid told the London Sunday Mail.
“Harry Potter has also had a positive effect. But we don’t let anybody join until they are 18.”
Filmmaker and occult expert Caryl Matrisciana spoke with WorldNetDaily about her documentary covering Harry Potter’s influence on children.
The video documentary details numerous similarities between the spells and magic used by Harry Potter and those used in the witchcraft of the Wiccan religion. Such striking similarity, said Matrisciana, is evidence that the author, J.K. Rowling, has meticulously researched Wicca and included its tenets in her children’s books.
Some children who read the books, often more than once, may find themselves attracted to the magical world Harry lives in, she said. In attempting to create their own spells and charms, kids may turn to other books that teach witchcraft.
The boom in witchcraft has also been attributed to teen-agers watching TV shows like “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” and “Charmed.”
As WorldNetDaily reported, a 2002 study by Barna Research Group Ltd. indicates 86 percent of kids watch supernatural-themed movies or television shows on a regular basis.
Mark Matlock, minister with Wisdom Works Ministries and commissioner of the study, told WND there is a relationship between those who are drawn into the Harry Potter craze and those who have experimented in occult-type activities, but he says it doesn’t necessarily mean the Harry Potter influence always causes kids to delve into witchcraft.
Scotland’s “Witchfest” will take place at Langside Halls in Glasgow next month, and a Europe-wide gathering will take place in London in November. The Children of Artemis say it will be the largest European witchcraft and Wicca event in recorded history.
The group touts the coming Witchfest as “an amazing event, with talks, workshops, stalls and great entertainment.”
“My greatest concern is that godly fear that protects mankind from dabbling in the spirit world is being taken away from children who read these Harry Potter books. The terrors and horrors of black magic and occult practice, rituals, ceremonies and demon possession are being normalized,” Matrisciana said.
“Alarmingly, the Potter books are engaging in pagan discipleship, disciplining our children to spiritual alternatives and also turning them away from the biblical principles and God’s protection.”

PLAUSIBLE WORST CASE SCENARIO ALERT.
Bored teenager reads Harry Potter>These spells are interesting>What are spells?>Goes to bookstore picks up books on witchcraft and casting spells>Cast spells "because Harry does so>Gets drawn into occult>joins coven>willfully rejects God - he has a lot of friends and is happy with his power> He gets possessed>rejects opportunity for mercy on deathbed>smirks>dies>burns for all eternity in hell

---

To be honest if it wasn’t a threat I really don’t think we’d have countless apologists and exorcists warning us.

I am not an expert myself and I really do hope Granger et al are correct. I am happy to be proved wrong on this one. I just don’t want to take the risk with my children.

Peace

 

[ORD_NASILA]

The Holy Bible would be exhempted from that blanket statement I suppose Jharek?
BTW, I wish to express my sympathy for the economic woes of your country!

God Bless you Jharek.

                           Regards,  ORD


 *"Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows" *(Matt.10:31)

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

I would like to preface my post by stating that I am still not ‘convinced’ that Harry Potter is a **grave danger **and is necessarily leading people down diabolical paths…However here are some facts…

FACTish 1
The fact is exorcists wouldn’t waste their time warning people of the dangers of Harry Potter if didnt draw people (maybe weak youth steeped in relativism) of the occult. The supernatural is an exorcist’s forte (not fortean ). They can often get to the cause from the effect. They are blessed in their ministry.

'FACT’ish 2
Wiccan groups all over the world are claiming that HP has drawn people into the occult. Why? Because the people drawn to the occult because of Harry Potter tell them so. They can’t all be liars all the time. Ergo HP could be said to be leading people down diabolical paths. That is a fact

Now for the cut and paste ​

The Wiccan group, Children of Artemis, has coordinated this year’s local gathering of witches to be held in Glasgow, Scotland.
“There is a growing interest in the Wiccan religion, and there are thousands of us already in Scotland,” organizer Pauline Reid told the London Sunday Mail.
“Harry Potter has also had a positive effect. But we don’t let anybody join until they are 18.”
Filmmaker and occult expert Caryl Matrisciana spoke with WorldNetDaily about her documentary covering Harry Potter’s influence on children.
The video documentary details numerous similarities between the spells and magic used by Harry Potter and those used in the witchcraft of the Wiccan religion. Such striking similarity, said Matrisciana, is evidence that the author, J.K. Rowling, has meticulously researched Wicca and included its tenets in her children’s books.
Some children who read the books, often more than once, may find themselves attracted to the magical world Harry lives in, she said. In attempting to create their own spells and charms, kids may turn to other books that teach witchcraft.
The boom in witchcraft has also been attributed to teen-agers watching TV shows like “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” and “Charmed.”
As WorldNetDaily reported, a 2002 study by Barna Research Group Ltd. indicates 86 percent of kids watch supernatural-themed movies or television shows on a regular basis.
Mark Matlock, minister with Wisdom Works Ministries and commissioner of the study, told WND there is a relationship between those who are drawn into the Harry Potter craze and those who have experimented in occult-type activities, but he says it doesn’t necessarily mean the Harry Potter influence always causes kids to delve into witchcraft.
Scotland’s “Witchfest” will take place at Langside Halls in Glasgow next month, and a Europe-wide gathering will take place in London in November. The Children of Artemis say it will be the largest European witchcraft and Wicca event in recorded history.
The group touts the coming Witchfest as “an amazing event, with talks, workshops, stalls and great entertainment.”
“My greatest concern is that godly fear that protects mankind from dabbling in the spirit world is being taken away from children who read these Harry Potter books. The terrors and horrors of black magic and occult practice, rituals, ceremonies and demon possession are being normalized,” Matrisciana said.
“Alarmingly, the Potter books are engaging in pagan discipleship, disciplining our children to spiritual alternatives and also turning them away from the biblical principles and God’s protection.”

PLAUSIBLE WORST CASE SCENARIO ALERT.
Bored teenager reads Harry Potter>These spells are interesting>What are spells?>Goes to bookstore picks up books on witchcraft and casting spells>Cast spells "because Harry does so>Gets drawn into occult>joins coven>willfully rejects God - he has a lot of friends and is happy with his power> He gets possessed>rejects opportunity for mercy on deathbed>smirks>dies>burns for all eternity in hell

---

To be honest if it wasn’t a threat I really don’t think we’d have countless apologists and exorcists warning us.

I am not an expert myself and I really do hope Granger et al are correct. I am happy to be proved wrong on this one. I just don’t want to take the risk with my children.

Peace

Of course you’re the ultimate arbiter of what’s good for your kids, and them seeing or not seeing HP lies within your discretion which is, of course unassailable, but as far as making the case that HP is a magnet for occulty activities …

… I see a lot of argument but still no evidence.

 

[ORD_NASILA]

**Do you not understand that once your kids get a real interest in such things, it will likely be too late to change them? **

Did you not read earlier in the thread where it was posted that a five year-old child read HP all the way through? They had the “teachings” of HP pumped into them two years before the age of reason and I seriously doubt that was the only case like that.

.

A psychologist once said, “If you don;t have control of your children by the time they are four years of age, you’ve lost them!”

Christian Regards, ORD.
* "Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows" *(Matt.10:31)

 

[JHow]

Our country isn’t doing so hot either right now… but at least we might all agree not to blame THAT on Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling !!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I think the Catholics on the thread are strong, serious, faithful Catholics. One poster implied that they won’t escape Hell because they are leading children to the occult. What do you think? Are those who don’t agree with you about Harry Potter destined for Hell? Are they weak in their faith?

No, I don’t think good Christian people will go to Hell for endorsing HP the same I don’t think you’ll go to Hell for endorsing a crime TV show. (And I don’t care who you are) but there is danger for those who get caught up in these books and are not grounded enough in their faith - that is undeniable, I am sorry to say. If we become too absorbed in anything of this world, for that matter, there’s danger. But I would like to make the point that even faithful Catholics who don’t listen to what the hierarchy of the Church has said (namely Fr. Euteneuer and our own pope, at the time-Cardinal), may have some things to work out in their Catholic lifestyle.

If you would not recommend the books to a non-Catholic, non-Christian,
If you would not recommend the books to young adults still in their formative years,
then, why are YOU reading them? Yes, there is material appropriate only for adults and for young adults, but I am asking strictly about HP or contemporary literature.

I ask my Sunday school class when they want to know what kind of music is morally right to listen to, “Would you listen to this with the pope in the room?” Or for young women who don’t know what to wear to Mass, “What would our Lady wear?”

Even if certain things are just for our entertainment, perhaps we should consider giving them up. How can we challenge ourselves to be a better Catholic still? Ah, yes, the tough question.

I see lots of opinions, I don’t see any facts.

I don’t want to prove that HP is evil, I just want to prove that it is not reading material faithful Catholic adults should be engaging in.

C’mon! If you could read all the great books out there would you start with HP? No! There are spiritual books galore out there - and they feed your soul too! Have you read, “The Way of Perfection” by St. Teresa of Avila? “Story of a Soul” by St. Therese the Little Flower? “The Confessions of Saint Augustine”? “The Fulfillment of All Desire”? I can keep going.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

…

C’mon! If you could read all the great books out there would you start with HP? No! There are spiritual books galore out there - and they feed your soul too! Have you read, “The Way of Perfection” by St. Teresa of Avila? “Story of a Soul” by St. Therese the Little Flower? “The Confessions of Saint Augustine”? “The Fulfillment of All Desire”? I can keep going.

I rarely read anything for its spiritual content, although I enjoy Thomas Merton. David Weber HS Thompson and George MacDonald Fraser feed my interests.

 

[rapunzel77]

I don’t want to prove that HP is evil, I just want to prove that it is not reading material faithful Catholic adults should be engaging in.

I have yet to see any concrete evidence that Harry Potter isn’t suitable reading material for faithful Catholic adults to engage in. I have read all 7 books several times over. I have read them to my husband. Both of my parents, my brother, and my sister has read them. They are all strong Christians. We are very active in our parish and we take our Faith very seriously. We also Harry Potter fans. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

C’mon! If you could read all the great books out there would you start with HP? No! There are spiritual books galore out there - and they feed your soul too! Have you read, “The Way of Perfection” by St. Teresa of Avila? “Story of a Soul” by St. Therese the Little Flower? “The Confessions of Saint Augustine”? “The Fulfillment of All Desire”? I can keep going.

Again, reading the great spiritual classics and reading Harry Potter are not mutually exclusive. One can read both with no harm. Have you actually read the books? All of them? all 7??

 

[mark_a]

“The more I read the books, the more I realized how spiritually dangerous the material is,” he said. “Even though it’s fiction there is a lot of reality woven in it. My warning is that Harry Potter is a major contributor to Wicca."
christianpost.com/article/20101119/some-christians-still-denounce-harry-potter-as-dangerous/

I wonder how many less Harry Potter books would have been sold if the author had let Dumbledor out of the closet in the first book.

 

[rapunzel77]

I wonder how many less Harry Potter books would have been sold if the author had let Dumbledor out of the closet in the first book.

I don’t think it would have made a difference. Dumbledore’s as well as most of the other professor’s sexuality isn’t relevant to the books. Dumbledore keeps to himself. He is very aloof at times. The relationship that is revealed in the 7th book is a negative one. It is not seen as a good idea at all and it causes a crisis of trust, etc in Harry.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

I wonder how many less Harry Potter books would have been sold if the author had let Dumbledor out of the closet in the first book.

Yet, not an outrageous reveal, considering the setting of the stories. His gayness simply wasn’t important to the plot.

 

[mark_a]

I don’t think it would have made a difference. Dumbledore’s as well as most of the other professor’s sexuality isn’t relevant to the books. Dumbledore keeps to himself. He is very aloof at times. The relationship that is revealed in the 7th book is a negative one. It is not seen as a good idea at all and it causes a crisis of trust, etc in Harry.

Well, alrighty then!

I had no clue, obviously.

Dumbledore keeps to himself. He is very aloof at times.

Are these traits and heterosexuality mutually exclusive?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I have yet to see any concrete evidence that Harry Potter isn’t suitable reading material for faithful Catholic adults to engage in. I have read all 7 books several times over. I have read them to my husband. Both of my parents, my brother, and my sister has read them. They are all strong Christians. We are very active in our parish and we take our Faith very seriously. We also Harry Potter fans. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

I’m happy for you. I’m glad you can keep a good balance like that.

So how many good spiritual books could you have been taking in while you were reading the seven HPs “several times over”?

I find it exclusive yes, when it comes to Harry Potter, Twilight, and other contemporary novels people are trying to ram down the throats of young kids. Maybe it’s just me… It’s 9:30 at night. I’ve just finished tonight’s compline. Then I remember I need to finish that last chapter of The Half-blood Prince. The contrast is stunning to say the least!

Again, reading the great spiritual classics and reading Harry Potter are not mutually exclusive. One can read both with no harm. Have you actually read the books? All of them? all 7??

No I have not. I took my own advice and started to read something that would benefit my soul instead. Well, I suppose HP can benefit a soul, if you lift Harry Potter himself up to be a Christ-figure.

 

[rapunzel77]

I’m happy for you. I’m glad you can keep a good balance like that.

So how many good spiritual books could you have been taking in while you were reading the seven HPs “several times over”?

I have read several spiritual books as well. When I finish one I go back to read something else like Harry Potter or Shakespeare, LOTR, etc. I think it is fine to read both. It is enriching.

Maybe it’s just me… It’s 9:30 at night. I’ve just finished tonight’s compline. Then I remember I need to finish that last chapter of The Half-blood Prince. The contrast is stunning to say the least!

I have done that before with no problem. I read the Office everyday as well. We don’t have to read spiritual reading all the time. There is a time and place for everything.

No I have not. I took my own advice and started to read something that would benefit my soul instead. Well, I suppose HP can benefit a soul, if you lift Harry Potter himself up to be a Christ-figure.

I hope you were joking a little bit in that last sentence. I’m not stupid enough to see Harry Potter as Christ although he does exhibit some qualities at the end that is Christ-like just as many other heroes do in other stories. The tales have much more in common with classic fairy tales and mythology so the hero is going to share some characteristics of those characters which are also echoes of Our Lord.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I have read several spiritual books as well. When I finish one I go back to read something else like Harry Potter or Shakespeare, LOTR, etc. I think it is fine to read both. It is enriching.

Remember I said, “exclusive only when it comes to HP, Twilight, and other contemporary literature.” Read the classics, by all means! Add Chesterton to your list!

I’m not stupid enough to see Harry Potter as Christ although he does exhibit some qualities at the end that is Christ-like just as many other heroes do in other stories. The tales have much more in common with classic fairy tales and mythology so the hero is going to share some characteristics of those characters which are also echoes of Our Lord.

Unless the whole story blurs the lines of black and white - and strays into the grey.

 

[PRmerger]

Or for young women who don’t know what to wear to Mass, “What would our Lady wear?”

I have heard this question posed before and I find it curious.

Mary would not wear makeup. Nor tweeze her eyebrows. Nor use artificial nails. Nor wear nail polish. Nor wear a padded bra.

I do (or have done) all of the above. Yep, folks, the secret is out. I nursed 4 children but I still need a padded bra.

So…is this really a criterion we’re using to determine what’s appropriate to wear to Mass?

Edit: if the argument to the above is that the criterion of “what would Our Lady wear” is applicable only to “young women”, I ask why? And, if young women do indeed tweeze their eyebrows and Mary wouldn’t, is that sinful?

 

[DawnInTexas]

Where does he actually say watching HP movies can invite demons in? I see the link to a blog, but not the source. I haven’t found any source that shows he even read aHP book or saw a HP movie.

Show us that he hasn’t read a Harry Potter book or saw a Harry Potter movie.
Most would assume he had before making determinations.
With his reputation at stake, the damage to this Highly Visible Catholic Authority would be high if he willy-nilly went around and made statements-not knowing what he was talking about, wouldn’t you think?

Inside Catholic Article which might help you:

The Pro-Life Leader Who Is Also an Exorcist
Deal W. Hudson

…Exorcism and the Church Militant is intended, in part, as a warning to parents who allow their children to be desensitized to “the dark world” by books and films like the Harry Potter series and the vampire books of Stephanie Meyer. Father Euteneuer told me possession is almost always a result of someone getting involved in some sort of occult practices, such as witchcraft, Wicca, tarot cards, and Ouiji boards.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Father Euteneuer emphasized this point, “Demons do not discriminate between intentions – no matter how innocent – and children lose the clear distinction between good and evil.”…

…By the end of my interview with Father Euteneuer, I realized my initial question about being frightened of demons had betrayed my misunderstanding of the limits of demonic power. Exorcism and the Church Militant is a book that should provide guidance to many for years to come, especially for parents who need a reminder that the occult is not innocent entertainment…

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[rlg94086]

(namely Fr. Euteneuer and our own pope, at the time-Cardinal),

Why persist in bringing up Cardinal Ratzinger’s comments? Here is the follow-up with the monseignor that Cardinal Ratzinger recommended Kuby send the book to for review. I’ve posted it twice, so maybe you missed it?

catholicnews.com/data/sto…ns/0504069.htm

In the letter, Cardinal Ratzinger suggested Kuby send a copy of her book to Msgr. Peter Fleetwood, then an official at the Pontifical Council for Culture.

Msgr. Fleetwood told Catholic News Service July 14 that he received a copy of the book in 2003 and wrote Kuby a four-page letter explaining where he thought she may have misunderstood or read too much into the books. He said he never heard back from her.

The monsignor, now an official of the Council of European Bishops’ Conferences, said the primary focus of parents and teachers he has spoken with about the books is how enthusiastic children are about reading them.

**On a moral level, he said, the books “pit good against evil, and good always wins.”

“The people who complain about Harry Potter are the same people who complain about priests, bishops and catechists watering down church teaching about the devil and evil,” he said**.

Is it acceptable for Catholics to take the direction of the person at the Pontifical Council for Culture recommended by Cardinal Ratzinger, or is he to be ignored?

 

[curlycool89]

Let’s remember: Tolkien was writing from a Christian (Catholic) perspective, not a pagan/agnostic perspective.

The symbolism is immense in Tolkien’s novels. Not so much in Rowling’s.

You have to look pretty deep to find them. Tokien also said that he doesn’t want people looking for any allegories in his books.

My question with all this is simple: WHY EVEN BOTHER WITH HP? If there is even a one-percent chance that some kids will fall into bad things because of HP, than why should any Christian go near HP?

There’s a 100% chance that every person who’s born will die. Therefore, as Christians we shouldn’t have children because it only leads to death.

That’s why you never play with statistics. When you read into statistics, inevitably your drawing a conclusion which may not be fully supported by them.

Now, that isn’t fair. Patrick, along with many other faithful Catholics (myself included) have voiced fairly and charitably their negative opinion of HP just as other faithful Catholics have voiced their opinions. On such a touchy topic…you’d think, well nevermind.

The problem is not your argument. I acknowledge that if a parent is worried, then by all means they can decide not to let their children read HP.

The problem is with your presentation. Those on the “anti” side of the debate (just the name I’m throwing out for convenience sake) have implied that those of us on the “pro” side are inferior in our faith or are “lesser” Catholics. I disagree with your opinion, but I don’t think your a bad Catholic. It would just be nice if the other side would acknowledge that we’re just as good Catholics as you.

Very true lil_flower_luv, and that statement should be extended to include “The Apocalypse”, far more frightening than anything in HP don’t you think? (Also a strong stomach would be an asset).

A friend of mine once commented that “Revelation is a book that people should read less of”. I think everyone knows that there have been some pretty crazy ideas that have come out of people picking up Revelation and thinking they understand everything.

'FACT’ish 2
Wiccan groups all over the world are claiming that HP has drawn people into the occult. Why? Because the people drawn to the occult because of Harry Potter tell them so. They can’t all be liars all the time. Ergo HP could be said to be leading people down diabolical paths. That is a fact

That’s called public relations. I believe what they say about that the same amount I believe that “The Holy Spirit draws people to Megachurches/Baptist/Protestant Churches” (which I obviously don’t). Just because people say it doesn’t make it true. Really what they’re doing is trying to maximize PR, which is really due to the Christian freak-out in the first place.

If you would not recommend the books to young adults still in their formative years,

I started reading them at age 11, and I came out OK.

I find it exclusive yes, when it comes to Harry Potter, Twilight, and other contemporary novels people are trying to ram down the throats of young kids. Maybe it’s just me… It’s 9:30 at night. I’ve just finished tonight’s compline. Then I remember I need to finish that last chapter of The Half-blood Prince. The contrast is stunning to say the least!

I read every night after Compline. First a little bit from the Bible, and then whatever novel I’ve been reading.

 

[DawnInTexas]

For those Catholics who believe what Pope Benedict XVI said regarding Harry Potter can be discarded to the rubbish heap, as he didn’t speak Ex Cathedra—I ask you, when your Priest gives a Homily, or gives you Spiritual Guidance in the Confessional-he too is not speaking Ex Cathedra.

Do you then also decide for yourself if you should take to heart or disregard his direction for your life?

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn