Some Mormon Honesty

[tbcrawford]

Hello to you in Oxfordshire! I know your area! My Mother used to have a home in Willersey which is a village nearby in Gloucestershire, and our family hails from the village of Hethe.

In answer to your post I will simply provide you with some salient facts ~

• The number 1 source of converts for the Mormon Church is poorly-catechized Catholics, at least in the US. This is a matter of great concern. Exposing the problems with other faiths, including the Mormon faith, may help someone avoid a bad choice.
• While discussion of other faiths may appear to be “questioning” or even “attacking”, we are also called to affirm the Truth. As Catholics, we have an obligation to confront error and promote Truth. This is not “knocking” or “gloating”, it is simply providing a firm testimony of the Truth.

Hello to you MelanieAnne…how wonderful you know our area.yes Gloucestershire is only about an hour from here!It is indeed a small world.
Your points are very valid and I am grateful for your comments.All poorly catechized catholics are in jeopardy from other religious beliefs and atheist also.I was pleased to read that the Catholic Church is to begin ministry to help our fallen away Catholics return home.
I agree with all you have said but I do believe it is a shame we can sometimes come across
as judgemnetal and unloving.Much love and peace to you and God bless

 

[Eliza10]

Since we are on the subject of what is truth, what is honest.

I placed this on my site years ago as it really struck me, Do you sense truth here? Do you have a sense that John on the video is moving closer to this kind of truth? Seeing our fallen nature is a very big leap from not being honest with ones self. But you have to have Jesus to fall into to otherwise you will keep turning away, not wanting to accept certain truths. Unless you have developed a personal realtionship with Him its just to damn hard.

I haven’t listened to the whole hour, just about 10 minutes. But John strikes me as being a very sincere, earnest and truth-seeking person who loves the Lord. He is easy to listen to. I would like to listen more.

This is a gem of a quote, and it says a lot. It is so much of what St. Therese says also - me being nothingness, it is all the work of grace. When we think of the immense riches of Grace God pours out on us, our little works are so small anyway. Not that we are not to work! But often our work is the duties and needs God has in front of us, and sometimes we see that in order to do even that with love, we must rely on God’s grace.

 

[catholic-rcia]

I haven’t listened to the whole hour, just about 10 minutes. But John strikes me as being a very sincere, earnest and truth-seeking person who loves the Lord. He is easy to listen to. I would like to listen more.

This is a gem of a quote, and it says a lot. It is so much of what St. Therese says also - me being nothingness, it is all the work of grace. When we think of the immense riches of Grace God pours out on us, our little works are so small anyway. Not that we are not to work! But often our work is the duties and needs God has in front of us, and sometimes we see that in order to do even that with love, we must rely on God’s grace.

Absolutely
Thanks
In Christ
Rich

 

[TikiTokiguy]

I’ve not watched the video but does he say anything about pressure to marry and singles being on the outside looking in?

 

[stormy99]

What he says is true. When I was exposed to those facts…the questioning began. With the questions came searching for answers and when the answers were found, I could no longer stay in the LDS church. It is a shattering experience…my marriage to a Mormon and my conversion cost me my non mormon family…my leaving Mormonism cost me my marriage to a good and kind husband. But he would not accept my questioning and subsequent leaving Mormonism…or maybe he couldn’t due to his being BIC…maybe he was scared of what he would learn. At that time, I took our two young sons and left Utah for the East Coast…and a Masters Degree program. I had no one…absolutely no one to talk with or help.

But not being a quiter…I just plowed through it. I had no desire to be involved in another religion ever again…and for a long time I ignored organized religion. But I couldn’t bury my head in the sand forever. I felt I needed and so did the boys something else in their life. I researched religions and found I wanted to be in communion with God in the Catholic Church…so I went through RCIA and became Catholic. My second husband is Catholic, so I went through the entire process of having my first marriage declared invalid by our Diocese. It was quite a process…

When you lose two support systems because of a religion…my own family who were just as bad as my Mormon relatives it’s tremendously hurtful. You are literally all alone…

I’m not sure anyone truly gets over the experience…you just live through it and go on with your life. But this journey requires a good sense of yourself, self confidence and the ability to support yourself financially…many people don’t have any of these behind them.

It doesn’t help to cast away these people.

stormy

 

[Returning_Home]

like I said, imitation is the finest form of flattery. If you can;t think up your own material, feel free to use mine

Agreed; it worked for both Muhammed and Joseph Smith, taking Christianity and working away from it, creating their own religion with themselves as the focus.

 

[PaulDupre]

Here is a u-tube video done on why Mormons leave the Church, This is from a very active Mormon. It’s worth listening to.
youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5SxnVs&feature=related

The disillusionment he describes is exactly what I went through. I felt betrayed, lied to, swindled, and heartbroken. And I was treated by the members, whom I had believed to be my friends, exactly as he describes - very badly. Not only did my religion and my world view crumble to dust, so did all my friendships and social life. I have never, before or since, been the recipient of such venom.

The difference between him and me is that, try as I did, I could not find any reasonable explanations for the discrepencies and still have not (and I notice he did not offer any), and I did not enjoy being a Mormon, so I was not sorry to leave.

He talks about “bad apologetics”. I had to laugh, because that is exactly what I see from the LDS on these fora. They try to justify the bad parts of LDS history and the many embarrassing prophetic teachings and doctrinal reversals with the silliest excuses and mental gymnastics imaginable - methods that only severe cognitive dissonance could produce.

I found it interesting that he thinks that it is better to stay in the LDS church and be a cafeteria Mormon than to leave. I doubt that many of the leaders would agree (unless you continue to pay tithing, in which case I guess they’d be okay with it).

And it was good to hear him acknowledge, as we have said for many years, that there are really only 4.5 million active LDS in the world.

 

[PaulDupre]

I’ve not watched the video but does he say anything about pressure to marry and singles being on the outside looking in?

Not directly, but his description of a “good Mormon” included “married in the temple, with a large family”, so draw your own conclusion.

 

[Returning_Home]

I’ve not watched the video but does he say anything about pressure to marry and singles being on the outside looking in?

No, there’s no mention of that but if, when you listen to it, you’ll notice that while he acknowledges lots of problems in Mormonism, he has no intention of leaving. He does, however, encourage those leaving to do so on their own terms, a sentiment echoed by Thomas Stuart Ferguson when he realized that the church wasn’t that which Christ established. I guess that’s the best way he can make it work for him, keeping the best of both worlds: the ability to follow what seems right and still reap the benefits of the church’s strong emphasis on family and community relationships.

In short, he made peace with it, but taken from an orthodox standpoint, he seems a likely candidate for excommunication.

 

[stormy99]

In order to leave the LDS church, you have to distance yourself from the culture physically. The horrid way you are treated dictates this or you are miserable…your friends are literally dead to you…they ignore you…your children are also shunned. It’s amazing how unChristian like their behavior becomes. Not one person will say a kind or…or any word except behind your back…and then it will, she didn’t pray hard enough, she must have done something wrong…

I am still friends with people who aren’t practicing Catholism…they didn’t change into awful sinners when they left. They are just in a different part of their life…THEIR LIFE…not mine.

Mormons might want to read the Treat your neighbor as you want to be treated…it might be good for them to study the scriptures in the Bible more closely…to find out Jesus and God is about love…

stormy

 

[Todd520]

I thought the guy spoke in a very Christian manner about real problems

Stormy, he clearly acknowledged the problems you highlighted as hurtful, and advised a change in behavior.

 

[PaulDupre]

I thought the guy spoke in a very Christian manner about real problems

Stormy, he clearly acknowledged the problems you highlighted as hurtful, and advised a change in behavior.

Agreed. I was shocked to hear such candor from a Mormon. It is the first time.

I expect to hear of his excommunication any day now.

 

[Todd520]

I expect to hear of his excommunication any day now.

Well, they were published some 3 years ago. And no news of his departure.

Maybe when you finally accept LDS as Christians, you’ll start to wish people well vs hoping they stumble and fail (you know, show some Jesus love)

 

[SirThomasMore]

Well, they were published some 3 years ago. And no news of his departure.

Maybe when you finally accept LDS as Christians, you’ll start to wish people well vs hoping they stumble and fail (you know, show some Jesus love)

When the LDS become Christians, we will recognize them as such

 

[Returning_Home]

When the LDS become Christians, we will recognize them as such

Agreed and they’re not there yet. Renouncing the nonsense of Joseph Smith is an excellent place to start, however.

 

[Returning_Home]

Agreed. I was shocked to hear such candor from a Mormon. It is the first time.

I expect to hear of his excommunication any day now.

I thought exactly the same thing when I first saw that video. I used to spend a lot of time debating Mormonism on YouTube, but they changed the format and it’s much less debate-friendly now.

 

[PaulDupre]

Well, they were published some 3 years ago. And no news of his departure.

Maybe when you finally accept LDS as Christians, you’ll start to wish people well vs hoping they stumble and fail (you know, show some Jesus love)

I never said I want him to stumble and fall (though a fall away from the LDS cult would only be a fall up), I said that I expect the LDS church to stay true to form and excommunicate anyone who is honest about Mormon history (for example Fawn Brodie or the September Six - look it up).

 

[zaffiroborant]

Well, they were published some 3 years ago. And no news of his departure.

Maybe when you finally accept LDS as Christians, you’ll start to wish people well vs hoping they stumble and fail (you know, show some Jesus love)

Well he was recently on ABC news saying that the new LDS ad campaign is not entirely honest. Maybe that will tip the scales.

 

[PaulDupre]

Well, they were published some 3 years ago. And no news of his departure.

Maybe when you finally accept LDS as Christians, you’ll start to wish people well vs hoping they stumble and fail (you know, show some Jesus love)

I find it interesting that I wrote “I expect to hear of his excommunication any day now”, but you read “I hope he stumbles and falls”.

 

[stormy99]

He spoke well on all those points…but believe me he is one of the few who is brave enough to say it aloud… you don’t get that depth of understanding from most Mormons. It is their way or no way. My ex husband said…he didn’t want to know any of the contradictions…not one of them. I needed to stop looking and accept that God will sort it out. OK…God who lives on Kolob and I never knew that before.

We are lied to…we are cheated when we think they are our friends, and then they cast you out. I shake my head when I remember it.

However, the communion with God, I have in the Catholic Church far surpasses any I ever had in the LDS Church. I freely give my time and talent in teaching Catholic education…nope I was called by the bishop to do this, I volunteered. My son was not taken into a closed room for a worthiness interview…he is an altar boy.

Life is fine for us now…but for many Mormons it isn’t…hopefully they will eventually learn the truth about their religion and find one that suits their needs better…

stormy