Some think Matthew 4:4 is teaching sola Scriptura

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medwigel said:
If you are too narrow minded in your thinking and unable to comprehend basic Scripture when it’s presented to you then get off the forum.
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LOL. This is not a forum for fundamentalist trolls, medwigel. It is a Catholic Answers forum, designed for people who are genuinely seeking Catholic Answers, which you have stated you are not.

I am a forum supporter, which means I pay a monthly amount to support those you who come here to insult Catholics. I think the opposite is true, medwigel, if you are not here for Catholic Answers, it is YOU that needs to seek life elsewhere.
 
guanophore said:
LOL. This is not a forum for fundamentalist trolls, medwigel. It is a Catholic Answers forum, designed for people who are genuinely seeking Catholic Answers, which you have stated you are not.

I am a forum supporter, which means I pay a monthly amount to support those you who come here to insult Catholics. I think the opposite is true, medwigel, if you are not here for Catholic Answers, it is YOU that needs to seek life elsewhere.
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I think it’s you trolling me…you seem to always have something to say.
Again, if you can’t handle dialogue and dissent and only want people who think like you go elsewhere.
I don’t live in your fascist world, so I don’t need to agree with you nor your permission in order to post my thoughts!
 
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😃😃

I did not ask you to agree, medwigel, I asked you why you are here, since you said you did not come here for Catholic Answers. Why are you afraid to say? Are you ashamed of your motives?
 
guanophore said:
😃😃

I did not ask you to agree, medwigel, I asked you why you are here, since you said you did not come here for Catholic Answers. Why are you afraid to say? Are you ashamed of your motives?
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I don’t need to justify my motives to you. Trolling much…
Worry about yourself and ask yourself what your motives are.
 
medwigel said:
I don’t need to justify my motives to you. Trolling much…
Worry about yourself and ask yourself what your motives are.
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I did not ask you to justify them, only to share them.

There is no mystery to my motives. I support this forum because I want to promote Catholic Answers. You have stated that is not why you are here, so I am just wondering what your purpose here might be? Are you ashamed of why you came here?
 
guanophore said:
There is no mystery to my motives. I support this forum because I want to promote Catholic Answers. You have stated that is not why you are here, so I am just wondering what your purpose here might be? Are you ashamed of why you came here?
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Once again, worry about yourself!
No one appointed you the “motive police”
 
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medwigel said:
“motive police”
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You are right, there are no “motive police” here. It is a member forum.

You seem to be avoiding sharing your motives for coming here, and get very defensive when you are asked about them. I wonder why that is?
 
Sean77 said:
The scripture you would use to uphold tradition actually supports my point. In 2 Thessalonians 15 the traditions that were taught by us is the gospel he was referring to in verse 14. In other words, the gospel which Paul handed down, was enscripturated for us.
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[2Thes2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.]

I agree the traditions in verse 15 are our gospel and we are to hold the gospel traditions whether by word or epistle as Paul clearly tells us.

Unless you can find a scripture telling us all oral Tradition is now enscripturated you are making a doctrine using a tradition of men. Scripture clearly tells us to hold Tradition. Did the Holy Spirit forget to inspire someone to write all Tradition is now enscripturated?

[1Thes2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.]

[2Tm2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.]

[2 Tm1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.]
 
Sean77.

As jlhargus mentioned . . . .
Unless you can find a scripture telling us all oral Tradition is now enscripturated you are making a doctrine using a tradition of men.
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.

I agree with jlhargus.

I would add . . . WHERE is the Canon of Scripture enscripturated?

IF your tradition is true, you SHOULD be able to show me that verse.
 
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Sean77 said:
The scripture you would use to uphold tradition actually supports my point. In 2 Thessalonians 15 the traditions that were taught by us is the gospel he was referring to in verse 14. In other words, the gospel which Paul handed down, was enscripturated for us.
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[2Thes2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.]

I agree the Traditions in verse 15 are our gospel and we are to hold the gospel traditions whether by word or epistle as Paul clearly tells us being inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Unless you can find a scripture telling us all oral Tradition is now enscripturated you are making a doctrine using a tradition of men. Scripture clearly tells us to hold Tradition. Did the Holy Spirit forget to inspire someone to write all Tradition is now enscripturated?

[1Thes2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.]

[2Tm2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.]

[2 Tm1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.]
 
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As you conceded the oral traditions at the time that Paul was writing to the church in Thesonica (his earliest letters) was later enscripturated in such doctrinal theses such as the epistles to the Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, Hebrews, and captured in the later writing of the four gospels. I do not deny that there was additional material. John’s gospel tells us as much. However, what we do know is that scripture provides us with what we need to be fully equipped to know the word of god, and these scriptures which are god-breathed are certain. The oral traditions you speak of, not captured by the scriptures are of uncertain origin and have numerous witnesses arguing for and against and often conflict with scripture which we know is certain. To tell me I am departing scripture for traditions of men when you yourself hold to discuss cattiness conflicting with scripture turns the argument on its head.
 
jlhargus said:
In Jn20:21-23 Christ breathed the Holy Spirit on the apostles to remit or retain sin. They must know or hear what the sin is before they can remit or retain.
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medwigel said:
So when you were saved you didn’t receive the Holy Spirit? Because the same Holy Spirt the Apostles received, we also received, and the Holy Spirit is not a respecter of person, whatever He did for the Apostles He will also do for ALL who believe. There is no favoritism with God.
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“jlhargus said:
I received the same Holy Spirit the Apostles received but not the same gifts.

[1Cor12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.]
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Sean77 said:
As you conceded the oral traditions at the time that Paul was writing to the church in Thesonica (his earliest letters) was later enscripturated in such doctrinal theses such as the epistles to the Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, Hebrews, and captured in the later writing of the four gospels.
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Paul clearly tells us to hold the gospel whether by word=oral or epistle=scripture.
 
Sean77 (bold mine) . . .
However, what we do know is that scripture provides us with what we need to be fully equipped to know the word of god (sic), and these scriptures which are god (sic) -breathed are certain.
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What comprises “these scriptures” Sean77?

Which books and letters comprise “scripture”? (How can you be “certain”?)
 
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jlhargus said:
When and how does your faith group confess their personal sins one to another?
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We do not have any formal process where people confess their sins to one another; it is up to the person to decide when and who they confess to and it is not done in a public setting. There are some churches I have attended that have “testimonials” where people will get up and testify about any situation going on in their life, whether good or bad; we use to do this at my church but we now have too many people to make this feasible at Sunday services but we do have smaller group sessions where people can ask questions about their problems.
We do have counseling available at our church and at times people will use these sessions to confess/discuss their sins with the counselor not in search of absolution but to get Biblical advice on what they should do.
The only instance where someone would be obligated to confess their sins to the congregation is if the person is a high ranking leader in the church and they have committed a sin that violates the trust of the people or their office through their transgression. Again, their confession is not in search of absolution but is part of their repentance and necessary before they can be restored to their leadership position.
 
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Gorgias said:
Are you really certain that you want to hang your hat on the interpretation that says that Acts is merely saying that the early Church “dedicated themselves to dinner”?
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Belated comment, but it has been prompted by an encounter offline with one holding similar views as those of medwigel. This is a solemn moment and not just ‘bread and wine’ Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-26, Luke 22:17-19. Jesus kept his promise he gave in verses 29, 25,18 respectively when he met his two disciples on the road to Emmaus, (vanishing immediately he was recognized after breaking bread! He did not eat It. Yet he ate other foods after resurrection Luke 24:42) wishing that in his physical absence we should recognize him in bread. Again flesh must contains blood no matter the quantity. So does His body (bread) even without wine.
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jlhargus said:
When and how does your faith group confess their personal sins one to another?
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medwigel said:
We do not have any formal process where people confess their sins to one another; it is up to the person to decide when and who they confess to and it is not done in a public setting. There are some churches I have attended that have “testimonials” where people will get up and testify about any situation going on in their life, whether good or bad; we use to do this at my church but we now have too many people to make this feasible at Sunday services but we do have smaller group sessions where people can ask questions about their problems. We do have counseling available at our church and at times people will use these sessions to confess/discuss their sins with the counselor not in search of absolution but to get Biblical advice on what they should do. We do not have any formal process where people confess their sins to one another; it is up to the person to decide when and who they confess to and it is not done in a public setting. There are some churches I have attended that have “testimonials” where people will get up and testify about any situation going on in their life, whether good or bad; we use to do this at my church but we now have too many people to make this feasible at Sunday services but we do have smaller group sessions where people can ask questions about their problems. We do have counseling available at our church and at times people will use these sessions to confess/discuss their sins with the counselor not in search of absolution but to get Biblical advice on what they should do. The only instance where someone would be obligated to confess their sins to the congregation is if the person is a high ranking leader in the church and they have committed a sin that violates the trust of the people or their office through their transgression. Again, their confession is not in search of absolution but is part of their repentance and necessary before they can be restored to their leadership position.
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So you are Calvary Chapel? I am familiar with “testimonials” as my Protestant faith group did them. They were in no way considered confession of sins ever. A person might testify about their former sinful life and conversion but never ever confessed their present sins.

In other words no one in your faith group has the authority to remit or retain sins. Why then did Christ send them as He was sent to remit or retain sins? Didn’t you post this authority was given to all Christ’s people not just the apostles? If that were so shouldn’t someone have remitted their sins?

[Jn20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.]
 
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