Someone can lose their salvation?

[paul_c]

moondweller, I want to walk you through the sotierology of the letter to the Romans because I don’t think you’ve read it end to end, otherwise you would understand that he doesn’t support faith alone.

Romans 1: after the intro, he calls the Romans to holiness (vs 5). He then states that that those the believe will live (vs 16,17). He follows this by condeming those that don’t believe. He then says that God turned the unbelievers over to their sin and that those that practice these evils deserve death.

Note in chapter 1, Paul notes that people must strive for holiness, must believe in Christ, and will be condemned for their sins.

Romans 2: Paul starts by warning against judging others. He then tells us that vs 6-9) : God, who will repay everyone according to his works:eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. " He then makes this point,"All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it. For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. He further states,“according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus” He spends the rest if the chapter expanding this thought

So in this chapter, Paul very strongly states that eternal life is based on works…

Romans 3: Starts out talking about the law, concluding" Now we know that what the law says is addressed to those under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world stand accountable to God, since no human being will be justified in his sight by observing the law; for through the law comes consciousness of sin. He then says that :“God is one and will justify the circumcised on the basis of faith and the uncircumcised through faith”

So in this chapter, Paul recognizes the importance of faith and that no one gets justified by observing the law… But he also says this fulfills the law.

So if you just look at the first 3 chapters of Romans, You find the whole story of salvation. You need faith to be saved, but you need to have works to support that faith or you will be condemned. You can not be saved by faith alone, nor can you be saved by works alone. You need both after getting initial grace from God, through no merit of yours.

 

[moondweller]

Hi, MoodD.,

I think ncgolf has an excellent question:

I would be very interested in reading your response.

God bless

Paul’s writing (talking) to the saved, but not about salvation. Not every teaching or exhortation or admonishment by Paul in his letters is in reference to salvation. You need to discern the difference. Context, tq, always context. Ncgolf has a problem in that area. Looks like you do as well.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mooddweller,

Interesting non-resonse disguised as a response…

Paul’s writing (talking) to the saved, but not about salvation. Not every teaching or exhortation or admonishment by Paul in his letters is in reference to salvation. You need to discern the difference. Context, tq, always context. Ncgolf has a problem in that area. Looks like you do as well.

You are 100% correct about Paul writing about things other than salvation. The catch here is that all of the references provided actually do relate to salvation - and not one based only on Faith - but one that moves the Christian to follow (read that as WORK… ) in the footsteps of Christ.

You are 100% correct about context - would that you observed this advice in reviewing your position on the man-made doctrine of “Faith Alone”. Do you doubt it is man-made? There is no evidence of this other gospel until the 16th Century ‘Reformers’ decided to hack away at the Body of Christ.

Truly, we just read an excellent review of Romans - and you have effectively dismissed it as immaterial. As I understand Romans, Paul was writing to the Romans in preparation for his journey to this church - and for his planned visit to Spain. Paul was writing about faith - and, how it animates the lives of Christians in practical ways (and, you can read that as WORKS…, too )

I would be impolite, however, not to thank you for putting me in the same company as Ncgolf … considering the quality of his posts, that is quite an honor…

God bless

 

[ncgolf]

Paul’s writing (talking) to the saved, but not about salvation. Not every teaching or exhortation or admonishment by Paul in his letters is in reference to salvation. You need to discern the difference. Context, tq, always context. Ncgolf has a problem in that area. Looks like you do as well.

You are the one who ties that word faith to salvation … that is the point of your theology. Should I document each post with highlighting and bolding of the word faith.

If you were not so consistent in your faith theology … you would have a case … but it is you and your postings that allows that question to be asked … so answer it.

So now … faith is not about salvation … I think you use the word context as a shield … as an excuse when things do not work out the way you think they should.

You also talk about the saved … unsaved … that too is another lame explanation … oh … it doesn’t fit … well it was the unsaved he was talking about … oh … this time he’s talking about the saved … gimme a break.

Try a little harder to answer the question … why would Paul … who in your mind … says faith is the answer … would even think love is greater?

 

[qui_est_ce]

So now … faith is not about salvation … I think you use the word context as a shield … as an excuse when things do not work out the way you think they should.

You also talk about the saved … unsaved … that too is another lame explanation … oh … it doesn’t fit … well it was the unsaved he was talking about … oh … this time he’s talking about the saved … gimme a break.

And I fail to see how the teaching changes whether the context is believers or non believers.

Let’s look at Jesus’ own words, from the horse’s mouth so to say:
Mark 8:34-:

34
He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, ****take ****up his cross, and **follow **me.
35
For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the gospel **will save **it.
36
What profit is there for one **to gain **the whole world and **forfeit **his life?
37
What could one **give **in exchange for his life?
38
Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this faithless and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

Here Jesus is speaking to His disciples, presumable the saved in Moondweller’s theology. Is this correct Moon? I have taken the liberty of highlighting the action words Jesus uses to describe who will be saved.

Are not TAKING up your cross and FOLLOWING Jesus ACTION, that is VERBS?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Ncgolf,

Do I detect a pressing inquiry increasing into a weight focus? What next… a demand for crushing logic?!!

You are the one who ties that word faith to salvation … that is the point of your theology. Should I document each post with highlighting and bolding of the word faith.

If you were not so consistent in your faith theology … you would have a case … but it is you and your postings that allows that question to be asked … so answer it.

Seriously, this emphasis on Faith Alone is like a nail looking for a wall to stick into. All the attempts at hammering simply show that the nail will not stick - much less hold the hammer pounder’s hat.

The rub of course, is that MoonD and others have had nothing but a steady diet of Faith Alone, and OSAS - along with frequent doses of anti-Catholic seasoning - and have never really grown in their perception of Christ and what He is all about.

To my way of thinking, the lack of consistency for the Protestants rests most clearly on the ‘Literal’ view of everything in the Bible - except for what the CC takes as literal. This is put in sharp relief by looking at how the CC and the multitude of Protestant churches accept the words spoken by Christ on the night before He died, “This is my body.” All Catholics - from the Apostles on have accepted this as literally what Christ meant: after the consecration what appears to be common bread and wine is really the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Protestants look at this as mere symbolism. But, every time Paul says faith … it must be faith alone!

Yes, Ncgolf, pressing MoonD for the answer may be the only honest way for him to do some serious thinking about how he is forced to bend and contort Scripture to fit this man-made doctrine of Faith Alone.

God bless,

 

[moondweller]

You are the one who ties that word faith to salvation … that is the point of your theology. Should I document each post with highlighting and bolding of the word faith.

If you were not so consistent in your faith theology … you would have a case … but it is you and your postings that allows that question to be asked … so answer it.

So now … faith is not about salvation … I think you use the word context as a shield … as an excuse when things do not work out the way you think they should.

You also talk about the saved … unsaved … that too is another lame explanation … oh … it doesn’t fit … well it was the unsaved he was talking about … oh … this time he’s talking about the saved … gimme a break.

Try a little harder to answer the question … why would Paul … who in your mind … says faith is the answer … would even think love is greater?

He’s speaking in a practical sense, not a salvation sense. For instance, there’s a difference between having been saved by faith and those who “have been saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works” now living/walking by faith.Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.”

Rom 1:16-17 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it {the} righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith."And in the life he lives by faith (practical sense, not salvation sense) he exercises love toward God, fellow brethren in the faith, and fellow men.

Can you see the difference, NC? How about you Tqualey? The SAVED (righteous) live by faith, along with hope and love. Love, in a practical sense, is greater than faith. Albeit, faith is greater than love in a salvation sense. For we’re not saved through how much we love (practically), but to the extent that God loved us:1 John 4:10 "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son {to be} the propitiation for our sins."The saved (the redeemed, forgiven, reconciled, justified, sanctified, in the future glorified) now walk/live by faith in the FACT that Jesus Christ, through His sacrificial blood shed on the cross, is the propitiation for their sins.

Having been loved by God in such an infinite extent, the saved, in their walk by faith while on this earth, should love others in return. Just as those who have been forgiven so much should forgive others in return. But they were “saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works”

 

[guanophore]

If you read this thread then you would know I covered this already here.

Also, I don’t “add” the word alone, but interpret it faith alone because faith is stated alone: “For by grace you have been saved through faith…not as a result of works…”

This is one of the errors that results from attempting to derive theology from a handful of scriptures. Yes, faith is stated alone here, but in other places it is not. One must take into consideration the whole. Also, when one interprets the scripture apart from the Sacred Tradition that produced it, all sorts of errors abound.

As an example of how this method leads to errors, we can look at this verse:

1 Tim 2:15
15 Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Taking this verse, for centuries men kept women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, erroneously believing that this was their path to salvation.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hi, Ncgolf,

Do I detect a pressing inquiry increasing into a weight focus? What next… a demand for crushing logic?!!

Seriously, this emphasis on Faith Alone is like a nail looking for a wall to stick into. All the attempts at hammering simply show that the nail will not stick - much less hold the hammer pounder’s hat.
But, every time Paul says faith … it must be faith alone!

The problem is that every time the nail won’t go in Moon says Paul is not speaking about salvation when he preaches what one needs to ***do ***to reach eternal salvation!

Paul’s writing (talking) to the saved, but not about salvation. Not every teaching or exhortation or admonishment by Paul in his letters is in reference to salvation. You need to discern the difference. Context, tq, always context. Ncgolf has a problem in that area. Looks like you do as well.

Moon, what is the difference between being saved and salvation? Are not the saved guaranteed eternal salvation?

By the way, what is this emphasis on Paul and Romans? What about what Jesus actually SAID? I won’t make references because they have been posted earlier in this thread. These verses were never directly addressed by Moon. His replies of cherry picked verses that seemingly contradict Jesus’ very words skirt the references. And worse, give fodder to those who treat the Bible as a piece of fiction.

I think it’s a terrible witness to the beauty of the WHOLE TRUTH.

 

[moondweller]

This is one of the errors that results from attempting to derive theology from a handful of scriptures. Yes, faith is stated alone here, but in other places it is not.

Go back and read my posts. I posted a list of passages that stated faith alone for salvation. And that was just a sample of them. Just as there are MANY stating the the word “believe” alone.

One must take into consideration the whole.

But in context.

Also, when one interprets the scripture apart from the Sacred Tradition that produced it, all sorts of errors abound.

Or interpreting Scripture based on said “Sacred Tradition” produces all sorts of inconsistencies and contradictions.

As an example of how this method leads to errors, we can look at this verse:

1 Tim 2:15
15 Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Taking this verse, for centuries men kept women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, erroneously believing that this was their path to salvation.

It was taking it out of context that produced the error. Taking Scripture out of context can produce a false “sacred tradition” as well.

 

[moondweller]

The problem is that every time the nail won’t go in Moon says Paul is not speaking about salvation when he preaches what one needs to ***do ***to reach eternal salvation!
Moon, what is the difference between being saved and salvation? Are not the saved guaranteed eternal salvation?

By the way, what is this emphasis on Paul and Romans? What about what Jesus actually SAID? I won’t make references because they have been posted earlier in this thread. These verses were never directly addressed by Moon. His replies of cherry picked verses that seemingly contradict Jesus’ very words skirt the references. And worse, give fodder to those who treat the Bible as a piece of fiction.

I think it’s a terrible witness to the beauty of the WHOLE TRUTH.

See my post # 765.

 

[guanophore]

James 2:18 "But someone may {well} say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”[/indent]Like Abraham and Rahab, faith is demonstrated by works, but it’s the faith through which God justifies (Gen. 15:6), not the demonstration of it.

The two are never separated from one another. This is the main point that James is making. Saving faith is working faith. I think we agree on that point.

Like Paul, James can only cite Gen. 15:6, the ONLY time God justified Abraham and that through his faith alone.Gen 15:6 "Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it (his faith/belief in Him) to him as righteousness."Compare this to:Rom 4:3-5 "For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."Notice the tiny word “it.” And IT was credited to him as righteousness (justification).

You are using an “either/or” constructiont that does not exist in Apostolic Teaching, Moon. The Apostles never separate saving faith from the righteous deeds it produces.

Rom 2:13
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

The “doers” as Jesus teaches us, are those whose faith is working through love.

Gal 5:6
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.

Not Abraham’s demonstration of his faith which grew over the years as he exercised his faith in the Lord, but “it,” meaning his faith/belief in the Lord, i.e., what He said, His WORD.

The two are not separated, Moon! A person who is justified will demonstrate fruit that befits repentance. I think we agree on this point.

You call it sanctification. We call sanctification part of salvation, but the principle is the same.

Saving faith is never separated from the works of righteousness that it produces. That is why we say it is never “alone”.

James 2:21-22
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,

Where is the only place in scripture that the words “faith alone” appear together?

James 2:23-24
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I agree with you on the faith part. The only part where we seem to disagree is your contention that faith is “alone”.

I must admit I am a bit mystified about why the reformers felt the need to change this.

I think that Luther suffered from debilitating scrupilosity, as well as possiblly a mental illness, and did not understand the teaching of Christ on grace, so had to adapt it to make himself feel better.

Therefore Paul goes on with:Rom 4:4-5 "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,"Now the context and meaning of Gen. 15:6 and Rom. 4:3-5 is EXTREMELY clear. The only way you can avoid it is categorically disbelieve it.

I agree. No one can keep the law and the commandments without faith. However, with grace, through faith, this is possible. And it is the doers of the Law who will be justified.

 

[qui_est_ce]

See my post # 765.

Sorry, you posted while I was composing.
moon 765:

He’s speaking in a** practical sense**, not a salvation sense.

Where did this "practical come from? What do you mean PRACTICE?
moon 765:

For instance, there’s a difference between having been saved by faith and those who “have been saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works” now living/walking by faith.

Faith is a work. We are save by God’s grace alone.

 

[guanophore]

I’ll let the Holy Spirit answer this for you through Paul, a teacher and preacher of this grace:Rom 11:6 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."If it is not on the basis of works, then it is ONLY on the basis of FAITH.

All you have done here, Moon, is substitute one error for another. You have inserted your own theology of salvation on the “basis” of faith to correct what you perceive as Catholic error of salvation on the 'basis" of works.

In fact, it is neither.

We are saved by grace. Grace is the basis of salvation. Grace manifests itself in our live through faith and works. Saving faith is never separated from works, but those works are not the basis of salvation. Grace is the “basis”.

Faith is the human faculty through which God has ordained that we access saving grace. Fulfilling the works that God has prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them, is are the actions through which God has ordained that grace be made manifest in our lives.

That makes it faith alone, which is how it is always expressed in Scripture.

Well, we read it differently!

It seems there are as many interpretations of scripture as there are belly buttons. I thank you for sharing yours.

Jesus said:John 3:14-16 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up (*i.e., the cross*); so that ***whoever believes*** will *in Him have* eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever ***believes in Him*** shall not perish, ***but have*** eternal life."You see how faith flows through the Scriptures in continuity?

Absolutely. We also see that the faith which flows is never separated from the good works it produces.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mooddweller,

To be honest: No. I do not understand how you can come up with all of these different ‘senses’ in order to make a distinction.

Can you see the difference, NC? How about you Tqualey?

Let’s see what we have in your post two types of senses;

1.) Practical Sense

2.) Salvation Sense

Then we have these senses superimposed or applied to the saved (and by excluson the un-saved).

May I suggest that a ‘third’ sense by applied at this point? Common Sense

No doubt about it - Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Now, take a look at the groups that he was writing to. Essentially, young and/or newly established Chruches trying to get their sense of following Christ firmly anchored in a hostile world that is not especially interested in the message of Jesus Christ.

While these young 1st Century Churches were made of intelligent men and women - just what kind of 16th Century hair splitting do you think they were capable of. Paul’s focus (as an accomplished Pharasiee) had been of the WORKS of the Mosaic Law: circumcision, ritual washings, what cups and pots to use, clean vs unclean animals to eat, Sabbath observances, etc. Not one of these items specifically involved or focused on Charity (remember it is Charity that is superior to Faith.)

Simply look at Paul’s different audiences - each one was in need of something different, and he wrote his letter to address those needs in a language that they would understand. Following Christ is not one act - done at one time and that now allows me to say “I am saved - AND NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED OF ME!” Look at those scripture passages where Christ identifies that actual WORK is required to be rewarded with eternal happiness in Heaven (feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc… those who said “Lord, Lord…” did not do well. And, that is the name of that tune!)

Give it another shot. Even though Luther wanted to get rid of St. James’ Epistel - he failed. The Word of God will not be snuffed out to fit human designs. Actually, since James is so devestatingly clear about Faith Alone being a DEAD FAITH - and Luther was not able to silence James … it may be good for you to look at how the Protestants actually got James back into ‘their’ shortened Bible. The next thing then is to look how they can still maintain Faith Alone in spite of the Inspired Word of God that clearly says other-wise in James (and other sources).

God bless

 

[ncgolf]

He’s speaking in a practical sense, not a salvation sense.

Only you make that distinction … Paul does not preach two gospels as you propose … it is only one gospel … which is it? You must fit the passage into the context of your theology … if anything Paul is consistent.

For instance, there’s a difference between having been saved by faith and those who “have been saved by grace through faith… not as a result of works" now living/walking by faith.Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.” Forgive me but I do not see what you are implying with differences. Practically speaking what is the difference between “saved by faith” and “have been saved by grace through faith”.
For anyone to even begin a faith journey, to me, implies grace.
moondweller;4838821:

Can you see the difference, NC? How about you Tqualey

? The SAVED (righteous) live by faith, along with hope and love. Love, in a practical sense, is greater than faith. Albeit, faith is greater than love in a salvation sense. For we’re not saved through how much we love (practically), but to the extent that God loved us:

1 John 4:10 "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son {to be} the propitiation for our sins."The saved (the redeemed, forgiven, reconciled, justified, sanctified, in the future glorified) now walk/live by faith in the FACT that Jesus Christ, through His sacrificial blood shed on the cross, is the propitiation for their sins.You have a very unique way of looking at things I give you that. The essence of God is love … in a sense that is what God** is** … so any fruit of that love is less than it’s origin. Faith cannot ever be greater than love because the divine love (agape) produced it … God’s grace is the Holy Spirit and in that Spirit (love) comes faith … never the other way around. That is why they cannot be seperated into your formula. You can say love produced faith but never faith produced love … I am talking here of God … not on how we act on those graces.

Having been loved by God in such an infinite extent, the saved

, in their walk by faith while on this earth, should love others in return. Just as those who have been forgiven so much should forgive others in return. But they were "saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works"But in your theology … you really don’t need to do these extra “works” do you?

There is no command to do this … it’s a freebie for the rest of the world.

So a “saved” person walking in their faith that does not love others in return nor forgives … is still saved. You did say “should love” and “should forgive”… so I take it as optional … if you feel like it or maybe they are worthy of such a priviledge.

In your theology you cannot say “must” … like a commandment (didn’t Jesus say there are only 2) … that would imply works … so loving and forgiving is optional … they should do those things but there really is no requirement … is there?

This is why the “practical” and “salvation” senses cannot coexist and Paul in no way teaches this. Can one have “saving faith and grace” and not “love”? Your explanation implies yes … I say … and I think Paul agrees … no.

If one must love … that implies a condition does it not?
​

​

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Moondweller,

BINGO!

But in context.

While there can be no argument about the need for ‘context’ - look how you have used this. You are trying to identify the ‘context’ of a particular set of verses, a chapter - or even an entire Epistle - but that is not the issue!

The real issue is the CONTEXT of the entire Bible. Look at both OT and NT, look at how God’s salvation message is clear: you are to DO things for God (read that as WORKS) in addition to having Faith in Him.

Just a real quick example from the OT: 1Sam15:1-23. This is the story of King Saul getting the command to wipe out all of the Amalekites - neither human or animal was to survive. King Saul failed and deliberately disobeyed God by not doing the WORK he was assigned. Yes, he did some of it - but, he ultimately failed in his mission. Now, the ‘why’ behind this story is - you guessed it - another story - but, the bottom line is the favor of God was removed from him and King Saul still wanted to make a show of religion.

Here is an example from the NT: Luke1:26-56. This is the story of the Virgin Mary receiving the message from the angel about her being chosen to be the Mother of God. The angel also tells Mary about Mary’s cousin Elizabeth. Now, Mary could have stayed in Nazareth and contemplated her new role - but instead, she did an incredible WORK and visited 6 month pregnant Elizabeth to help with the birth of John the Baptist. From this greeting we get the first part of the Hail Mary… but, that is another thread.

In both cases we see obedience (or, the lack of it) in two people who obviously had Faith. Look at the difference in outcomes!

Your challenge, at least as I appreciate it, it to reconcile the entire Bible to this man-made Faith Alone issue. The CC (the one who put together the Bible you started with before 7 inspired books were removed by the Protestants) has reconciled the concept that the entire Bible is a unified whole. The entire Bible shows God’s plan through Salvation History - and, how the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity - became Man and established His Church on earth.

Christ gave the CC the power to do everything necessary to bring all men to a knowledge of the truth that they may be saved. Part of the WORK done by the CC was to set the text and books of Bible that you enjoy quoting. But, the CC also was establishing Sacred Tradition before the 1st book of the Bible was put together.

Now, go back and try to reconcile the entire Bible with Faith Alone … and see what you come up with…

God bless

 

[moondweller]

All you have done here, Moon, is substitute one error for another. You have inserted your own theology of salvation on the “basis” of faith to correct what you perceive as Catholic error of salvation on the 'basis" of works.

In fact, it is neither.

We are saved by grace. Grace is the basis of salvation. Grace manifests itself in our live through faith and works. Saving faith is never separated from works, but those works are not the basis of salvation. Grace is the “basis”.

Yes, the exercise of divine grace based on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Not (never) the works of the believer."For by grace you have been saved through FAITH;…the gift of God, not as a result of works…"

Absolutely. We also see that the faith which flows is never separated from the good works it produces.

But the works are not the basis on which God God justifies/saves the believer:Rom 3:21-24 "But now apart from the Law {the} righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even {the} righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified (how?) as a gift (by what? Our works? NO!) by His grace through what?) through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"Not through the believer’s works.Titus 3:5 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,"The true believer was regenerated and renewed by the Holy Spirit at the time of faith in Christ’s redemptive work on his behalf.

 

[moondweller]

So a “saved” person walking in their faith that does not love others in return nor forgives … is still saved. You did say “should love” and “should forgive”… so I take it as optional … if you feel like it or maybe they are worthy of such a priviledge.

Eph 2:8-10 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we should walk in them.”

 

[moondweller]

If one must love … that implies a condition does it not?

Since Abraham it’s revealed in the Scriptures that divine justification is conditioned on personal faith (Gen. 15:6).

For us, this side of the cross, the object of that faith, by which God justifies the sinner, is the Person and, once for all, sacrificial work of the incarnate Son.

Love is the fruit of the Spirit who now indwells the justified as they "walk by the Spirit"Gal 5:16 "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Gal 5:25 “If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.”