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F_Marturana
Guest
I thought maybe it was plausible if they were going to make microscopes and lab equipment. But pharmaceuticals?
Source: Trump still not grasping the severity of the pandemic
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Why does this matter to you? If the tests are valid, they’re valid, no matter where they’re done.
I know a man whose brother had a bad heart condition and had it for years. He was in the process of moving several hundred miles, had a heart attack and died. I guess they tested him for Covid and, getting a positive, listed that as his cause of death on his death certificate. He had no symptoms of Covid at all.
his brother is furious about that. I’m not sure why it matters to him, but he is angry about it.
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billsherman
Guest
I’m not an expert on vaccine development (and neither are you), but more than 100 nations are participating in this program, so their experts obviously see a benefit to it. I defer to their expertise.
Even if I’m wrong, and there is no benefit to this program, the data clearly shows that the US does not have any competitive advantage in developing a vaccine.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That was not clear, but now that you have clarified that you think that position to be extreme as well, I am happy to hear it, and accept any penalty points you choose to assign for my misunderstanding you.LeafByNiggle:
Of course, you left out that I consider the view that only the most vulnerable should be protected or that Trump shouldn’t have approved another trillion dollars spent extreme as well.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
And not to the expertise of the American doctors who are only testing on Americans? Why?
You might be right. I couldn’t say. Probably that’s an argument for bringing drug manufacturers back to this country. They don’t just manufacture drugs, they develop them too. We have been giving that capability away for years and need to reverse it.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I don’t do penalty points.
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billsherman
Guest
It wasn’t a decision made by doctors. It was made by the Trump Administration which decided to leave the WHO and go it alone. Doctors generally condemned the move.
https://www.physiciansweekly.com/u-s-physician-groups-condemn-withdrawal-from-who/
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Since covid-19 is primarily a vascular disease, it can lead to damage to the heart, even if the more externally-obvious symptoms are absent.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m not sure one can say “doctors generally condemned the move”. The article only asserts that these organizations support staying with WHO, not that their members have taken a vote on it. All of those organizations combined have about 54% of all U.S. physicians as members. But again, there is no vote. Membership does not imply approval of the organization’s policies. Membership in AMA, for example, allows access to publications and online resources, discounts on equipment and supplies, insurance benefits, legal advice, job resources and more.
After being deceived, to our detriment, by WHO, which, to all we know, may still be a client of China, what is the compelling reason why the U.S. should belong?
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ProVobis
Guest
Because covid-19 is a global disease? As are all its mutations?
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RidgeSprinter
Guest
yet
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
AMA statement on president “terminating” U.S. relationship with WHO
In grip of global pandemic that has already killed more than 100,000 Americans, severing ties with World Health Organization (WHO) serves no logical purpose.
www.ama-assn.org
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billsherman
Guest
The goalposts keep sliding here. Let’s stop this. The point isn’t about withdrawal from the WHO. The point is that you claimed:
I showed that this not rooted in evidence:
The US developed vaccine is one of FIVE in phase III trials, and FOUR of those started their phase III trials earlier. It is highly likely that one, or more, of those vaccines will be approved earlier than ours.
That is by far the most important piece of evidence.
Let’s focus on that. Trump cannot be credited with putting the US on an accelerated pace of vaccine development. We simply have no competitive advantage.
In fact his own development leader, Michael Caputo, is now saying that because watchdogs are concerned about his stock holdings the vaccine may be delayed:
“The chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration’s program investing billions of dollars into discovering a coronavirus vaccine, says media scrutiny of his stock ownership may delay a vaccine or make its discovery less likely because it is distracting him from his work.”
Trump Vaccine Adviser Warns That Scrutiny Of Him Will Delay Arrival Of Coronavirus Vaccine
HHS assistant secretary Michael Caputo went even further, arguing the media doesn't want a vaccine to succeed before the election. “I believe that all the way in my aorta.”
www.buzzfeednews.com
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tomarin
Guest
Sorry to hear this. I hope he makes a full recovery.
Surely pulling out of the WHO in the midst of a pandemic will only hurt us in the long run.
Surely pulling out of the WHO in the midst of a pandemic will only hurt us in the long run.
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dscath
Guest
Testing seems to be the trouble…Trump, time and time again tells us that if we wouldn’t test so much there wouldn’t be so many cases…I guess if we wouldn’t give so many breathelizer tests there wouldn’t be so many DUIs, and if we wouldn’t give so many pregnancy tests there would be fewer babies born?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
That is a tentative conclusion, but I don’t think it’s considered definitive. There does seem to be a correlation between intertussive angiogenesis and Covid death. I don’t think the causes of the angiogenesis are well known, and the observed changes may simply be an effect.
But that’s in the lungs. I am not sure we can be quick to think a man died of Covid just because he had a heart attack of years’ duration and happened to have a positive Covid test.
But that’s in the lungs. I am not sure we can be quick to think a man died of Covid just because he had a heart attack of years’ duration and happened to have a positive Covid test.
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RidgeSprinter
Guest
And if we do fewer testing for Cancer, there would not be as many Cancer deaths!!!
What a Novel idea!
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is why we leave it up to the medical professionals who understand these effects better than we do.
Mark121359
Well-known member
Dunno. As of this moment, five of the first six stories in the World News category certainly don’t seem favorable to Mr. Trump…or am I missing something?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
And so what does membership in WHO add to that?
Discontinuing with WHO might have the beneficial effect of the organization purging itself of its seeming allegiance to China. Might not. If not, then our departure should be permanent and the U.S. should seek to set up some other international cooperative group, if that’s desirable at all, that is not a sock puppet of China.
We don’t know yet, do we? Before adding this to your “why I hate Trump and you should too” repertoire, you ought to see how it turns out.
Specifically how? Maybe it will result in reform of WHO, though I doubt it.
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billsherman
Guest
Then what possessed you to assert something that isn’t at all supported by any evidence:
Let’s follow the evidence.
I don’t hate Trump, but I do hate many of his policies. Don’t confuse the two.
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