Spaghetti straps on little girls' First Communion dresses

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yellowbird said:
The sauce HAS to be homemade. The secret to mine is 2T of sugar. And Romano cheese mixed in the meatballs. That’s Amore!
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Amen to that, yellowbird! I sometimes put Romano cheese, sometimes Parmesan cheese, and sometimes both. The sugar, according to my Mom, now in heaven, depends on the tartness of the tomatoes, but I see you share my sweet tooth affliction. My Aunt says the sauce must be made with fresh tomatoes, and cooked many hours to reduce the acidity, but I still use canned tomatoes. Maybe I should try what she says. Buon appetito!
 
lifeisbeautiful said:
See, but I have an 8 year old. I have been looking for dresses in the store for her lately and a lot of the dresses they sell for girls her age are overly “sexy”. Acknowledging this, and deciding against buying these dresses, is not sexualizing little girls, quite the opposite! It is a problem that a lot of the clothing being sold for younger girls is sexualized (and I am not talking about simple spaguetti strap dresses) it is possible for there to be inappropriate clothing for young girls, and acknowledging this does not mean that you are contributing to their sexualization or objectifying their bodies at a younger age. As a mother I don’t want my little daughter out there dressed like she is going to an adult cocktail party and it is good, not bad, that I watch out what clothing I buy for her and how she dresses!

ETA: Teaching a girl about modesty should happen before the girl has a woman’s body and a big part of that is learning to dress appropriately…
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I had the same problem when my daughter was little. She is now an adult so the issue with immodest clothing for little girls is nothing new. I remember when she was about 5-6 buying her shorts in the boys section as I could not find anything appropriate in the girls section it was all too small and too tight. This is a lesson she has carried over into adulthood.
 
JamesCaruso said:
Amen to that, yellowbird! I sometimes put Romano cheese, sometimes Parmesan cheese, and sometimes both. The sugar, according to my Mom, now in heaven, depends on the tartness of the tomatoes, but I see you share my sweet tooth affliction. My Aunt says the sauce must be made with fresh tomatoes, and cooked many hours to reduce the acidity, but I still use canned tomatoes. Maybe I should try what she says. Buon appetito!
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:rotfl:
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I think this is an entirely different controversy all together! Sugar in tomato sauce!!:eek:
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It’s the Sicilian way.

It makes the sauce taste better. And don’t even try to argue with me! I know people who know people… which is also the Sicilian way.

😛 😛 😛
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I think this is an entirely different controversy all together! Sugar in tomato sauce!!:eek:

(just kidding, I’m sure your recipe is very good:))
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I am waiting to see the ingredients in your recipe. 😃

PS-- Hey, that comment at the very bottom of the page was pretty sneaky! I didn’t see it until I posted my response. :o
 
Tenebrae said:
It’s finally come to this. I saw two dresses like this at Mass this morning (First Communion was yesterday, and the communicants were encouraged to come to Sunday Mass wearing their outfits). Your opinions?
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My opinion would be that if I had a daughter who fell in love with a First Communion dress that had spaghetti straps, I would purchase a shrug or bolero-style cover-up that matched the fabric and embellishment of the dress and have her wear that with the dress while in Church. She could leave off the shrug for the party or family gathering that usually follows. Same for strapless wedding gowns. Have a matching cover for Church that can be taken off for the reception.

From your first sentence of “It’s finally come to this”, it’s apparent you find those dresses inappropriate for Church. If it bothers you that much, I would speak with the person in charge of religious ed in your parish (priest, DRE, etc) and suggest that for next year, maybe they could let parents know that any dress with straps needs to have a matching/coordinating cover-up for Mass.
 
mommamaree said:
Our parish published guidelines insisting upon covered shoulders and tea length dresses. They said sleeveless dresses should have cap sleeves sewn on or a shrug or bolero jacket should be worn over during mass. The material said that as always, we should be modest before Jesus.
I was thankful for clear guidelines. It took out a lot of the guesswork. And it was a subtle reminder for the parents that we should always be properly dressed at mass. We live in the Deep South, but we have an air-conditioned church. So we went with a beautiful sleeveless style with wide shoulder straps, combined with a matching bolero to be worn in the church. Modest AND comfortable.
That being said, I do not see ny problem with tank tops and swimsuits in appropriate contexts, no matter the age of the person. Part of modesty is dressing appropriately for the occasion. A beach party is far more casual than a Mass, and beach attire would be immodest and inappropriate for Mass, obviously. That is an extreme example, but my point is just that we cover more of the body in more formal and reverent occasions. But little girls should NEVER be made to feel ashamed of their bodies. They should be told that we veil that which is holy, and we protect that which is private or vulnerable. This is why we drape our bodies with more fabric in situations with more people, more reverence, more importance. So that we can keep the focus off of ourselves and allow us to focus upon our Lord without being distracted by anyone gazing at us. At least this is how I have attempted to explain modesty to my daughter. I am especially concerned about her becoming ashamed of having a female body, so I am very careful to discuss it in a positive way.
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thank-you, most parishes have some kind of guideline which includes gloves and girls holding purses etc. A number of the posters are confusing OP question and then go off on a tangent about what is worn at the beach or even regular Mass. First Communion is a very special occasion. I’ve also seen guidelines for confirmation dresses and every year, there are complaints about what girls are wearing, including their shoes etc. I think confirmation robes sound like a good idea. I know one parish I was at threaten that the dress had to be pre approved for confirmation. Bare shoulders, spaghetti straps are not exactly reverent and can easily be covered up with a pretty white sweater.
 
PaulinVA said:
It’s a great opportunity to teach girls to wear a sweater or wrap or whatever over bare shoulders for Mass.

It’s gotten so bad at Confirmation at our parish that the confirmandi wear robes. Publishing dress codes just didn’t cut it.
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👍
In the Dark Ages, when I made my Confirmation, we wore robes and a little red beanie! 🙂

As for a First Holy Communion dress, I am of the opinion that it should be as modest as possible. If the dress happens to have thin straps, then a sweater or fancy bolero type covering would be appropriate.

While it is true that we may not have obsessed about this type of thing fifty years ago, we are also not living in the same kind of world. Our world has drastically changed. Unfortunately. :o
 
The more we make the concern of not tempting others our concern, the more easy it is for us to be modest.

Reading through this thread, I have seen many replies such as “I see no problem with dress X because that is what I used to dress ever since I was young etc.” That shows why it is important that PARENTS dress their kids appropriately from a very young age, possible just as soon as they reach age of reason.

A poster made a comment that we should allow little girls to be little girls. This whole thread has enough testimony on what happens when we do not train children from a young age to dress modestly. They just use their childhood as an excuse to dress the same way without any shame or concern about how they are leading others to temptation.
 
Eufrosnia said:
The more we make the concern of not tempting others our concern, the more easy it is for us to be modest.

Reading through this thread, I have seen many replies such as “I see no problem with dress X because that is what I used to dress ever since I was young etc.” That shows why it is important that PARENTS dress their kids appropriately from a very young age, possible just as soon as they reach age of reason.

A poster made a comment that we should allow little girls to be little girls. This whole thread has enough testimony on what happens when we do not train children from a young age to dress modestly. They just use their childhood as an excuse to dress the same way without any shame or concern about how they are leading others to temptation.
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Yea – lets “teach” girls to be ashamed of their bodies. And along with this – “teach” the boys to pass the buck/make scapegoats of girls/women – for the thoughts in boys/mens mind.
 
Walking_Home said:
Yea – lets “teach” girls to be ashamed of their bodies. And along with this – “teach” the boys to pass the buck/make scapegoats of girls/women – for the thoughts in boys/mens mind.
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This is an erroneous position.

You would be, in fact, contradicting Church teaching. The shame is felt not toward ones body. The shame is felt in exposing ones body to others, and thus leading them to temptation and exposing what one holds private. It is a very important distinction that you must understand or you can fall in to the error of puritanism or some other heresy.

Males are also held to the same standard. It is also not some myth that males can very quickly fall in to the sin of objectifying women as sexual objects for pleasure.

So I would suggest avoiding such thinking as the one you posted because it is in error and diverts attention away from a very important teaching of the faith.
 
Eufrosnia said:
This is an erroneous position.

You would be, in fact, contradicting Church teaching. The shame is felt not toward ones body. the shame is felt in exposing ones body to others, and thus leading them to temptation and exposing what one holds private. It is a very important distinction that you must understand or you can fall in to the error of puritanism or some other heresy.

Males are also held to the same standard. It is also not some myth that males can very quickly fall in to the sin of objectifying women as sexual objects for pleasure.

So I would suggest avoiding such thinking as the one you posted because it is in error and diverts attention away from a very important teaching of the faith.
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Same thing – a girl is made to be “ashamed” – and turned into a scapegoat for what goes on in a boys/mens mind. I’d say this has contributed to the abuse of girls/women through out time.
 
Walking_Home said:
Yea – lets “teach” girls to be ashamed of their bodies. And along with this – “teach” the boys to pass the buck/make scapegoats of girls/women – for the thoughts in boys/mens mind.
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A dress code for First Holy Communion that requires the shoulders to be covered is inherently shaming? Oh please. Because yes, the little boys are all coming into church for their First Communion wearing white tank tops and black shorts, so it is only the little girls who are being asked to wear so much clothing. It’s all about as-yet non-existent cleavage, obviously!! :rolleyes:

That’s like the argument that it is somehow elitist or phony when we’re asked to wear something more formal to Mass than to the beach, since God owns the whole of creation and won’t be shocked to see us wearing only the skin He put on us Himself. We, of all the animals, have chosen to lose our innocence. We ought not try to pretend that we didn’t…“For the man and his wife the LORD God made leather garments, with which he clothed them.” Gen. 3:21.
 
When my niece had her 1st Communion after being fully received into the church, her mother selected a white dress with very short sleeves that was white with little flowers & just below the knee in length with a wreath of flowers in her hair & a few ribbons from the wreath. Other girls the same day had the same length of white dress with either flowers in hair or veils.

My niece is now 11 in grade 6. I am glad she prefers very little makeup or none, jeans or khakis that do not fit her tight and shirts that are not revealing (nor have anything vulgar on them). Compared to when I was her age many years ago, many of girls were often wearing full faces of makeup and some of them were even wearing revealing or suggestive types of clothes in junior high. My mother ensured I was dressed modestly through out my school years, and I wasn’t allowed to wear makeup til high school and then in moderation.
 
Walking_Home said:
Same thing – a girl is made to be “ashamed” – and turned into a scapegoat for what goes on in a boys/mens mind. I’d say this has contributed to the abuse of girls/women through out time.
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This seems to me like you are trying to promote a certain agenda here. Unfortunately my friend, what I said is how the Catholic Church thinks. There are many today who subscribe to a position similar to yours but that is in error.

I pray that you will find your way back to the Church and see the true wisdom in its teaching!
 
Walking_Home said:
Same thing – a girl is made to be “ashamed” – and turned into a scapegoat for what goes on in a boys/mens mind. I’d say this has contributed to the abuse of girls/women through out time.
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For goodness sakes.

Appropriate business casual dress for men includes button down shirts, slacks, socks and shoes. For women, it includes slacks, skirt, or dress, nice blouse, and shoes.

Look around the internet at various business casual dress codes. Almost universally, women are told to not wear sleeveless blouses without a sweater.

So, it’s not about sexiness or anything like that. It’s about appropriateness. I think that we would all agree that we should wear at least business casual to Mass. Women are supposed to dress appropriately for the occasion, and in a similar way that the men are dressed. Bare shoulders, unless they are in a gown, are more casual than business.

That’s the deal. Women, when revealing a lot of skin, simply are more casual (unless in a gown). Men should dress appropriately, and women should be dressed commensurately.

It’s not that shoulders are sexy, especially in eight year old girls. When exposed, they are familiar and casual. Not the look one is trying to convey at a First Holy Communion.
 
Walking_Home said:
Yea – lets “teach” girls to be ashamed of their bodies. And along with this – “teach” the boys to pass the buck/make scapegoats of girls/women – for the thoughts in boys/mens mind.
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That is exactly what I am determined to avoid doing to my daughter. There is NO NEED for her to feel shame about her body. She just needs to learn that modesty is about dressing appropriately for the occasion, keeping private/vulnerable body parts covered and protected, and RESPECTING HERSELF. We show respect for ourselves and others when we dress modestly.
I got the sarcasm, btw, which is why I responded to you. I agree that shaming little girls is a horrible, unChristian thing to do.
 
I get a bit concerned when I see criticism of a woman’s outfit include “no sense of shame” or other such expressions. I think “shaming” a woman is an ineffective and cruel way to gain compliance in matters of modesty. It ends up sending a wrong message, namely that she should be ashamed of her body, or at least certain body parts, and she would be holier if she could completely hide her body which offends others. Women’s bodies seem to incite lust, jealousy or anger so much that it is a wonder that ANY woman could ever have a healthy appreciation for her body.
We do not dress modestly because our bodies are shameful.
Rather, we dress modestly because our bodies are holy, and we do not expose that which is holy to what is profane.

Little girls, and women of all ages need to be loved into modest dress. They need to see why we protect what is precious to us, and our bodies are our first examples of that. Nobody should be made to feel ashamed of their body.
 
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