Spaghetti straps on little girls' First Communion dresses

[severus68]

It’s finally come to this. I saw two dresses like this at Mass this morning (First Communion was yesterday, and the communicants were encouraged to come to Sunday Mass wearing their outfits). Your opinions?

Embrace the sacred occasion.Concentrate on Christ, not on little girls or anyone else and what they wear.

 

[underacloud]

Here is another great source:
…Certain actions which challenge a sense of the sacred, often mentioned in the Lineamenta responses, can be of assistance in treating the subject, for example, a neglect by the celebrant and the ministers to use proper liturgical vestments and the participants’ lack of befitting dress for Mass; the use of profane music in Church; the tacit consent to eliminate certain liturgical gestures thought to be too traditional, such as genuflexion before the Blessed Sacrament; an inadequate catechesis for Communion in the hand and its improper distribution; a lack of reverence before, during and after the celebration of Holy Mass

(my bold on the part that speaks to this thread)

vatican.va/roman_curia/sy…sembly_en.html

I don’t think anyone is denying the need for appropriate attire…the debate is regarding what exactly that is, which this source doesn’t speak to.

 

[severus68]

Well, how one dresses their daughter at 7/8 is a forerunner to what they wear when they are making their confirmation and if you think this is mild or bothered by it then one is in for a big surprise at what girls wear for confirmation and those bodies are not “little” any more. Overall, there is a sexualization of our children and younger and younger girls are wearing skimpier clothes. One may disagree here if spaghetti straps on young girls for first communion is not in greatest tastes but if one sees nothing wrong with that and follows the culture 6 years later when they are now 13/14, then it becomes a distraction to everyone around you, especially 13/14 boys.

Perhaps we should teach boys not to objectify women/girls and to concentrate on Christ in church.

 

[severus68]

Exactly. Jesus Is truly Present. This means it is not a place for spaghetti straps, shorts, Tight pants, low cut, back-less, ect. No matter what age or gender. Ultimately if Offends God. Jesus deserves our fullest respect. It makes me sad when I see this going on at mass. It is not about us and how we dress. It is about the Sacrifice Jesus makes for us. Not us. So lets Honor Him and dress our selves and kids appropriate.

Exactly, you too should be concentrating on Christ and the mass. God knows us naked, don’t think God is interested in our clothes, His interested is in our souls.

 

[severus68]

Who cares? We are talking about 8-year-olds. It is not even clear how this is a respect issue, other than some arbitrary association with bare shoulders and disrespect. Hardly compelling.

 

[severus68]

I think fixating on how people are dressed is much more offensive to God than how people are dressed. Dress is a personal issue that people should deal with on their own, and if truly inappropriate then the pastor, not a vigilante layman, should address the congregant.

Seriously, if you go to Mass to examine how the women are dressed and come back to the internet to complain about how immodest the women are, you need to readjust your priorities.

Well said, I agree.

 

[allhers]

I think location and local dress customs are relevant factors. We’re in Australia and shoulderless dresses and shirts are very common for women over the warmer months. In general, it seems to be acceptable to wear such to mass at a parish level, while people tend to dress up a bit more if they’re going to a cathederal.

Keeping the above in mind, I don’t see spaghetti straps as a great concern.

Well, this seems to just be your opinion, since I used the Vatican web site above and you didn’t think that was helpful, would you care to give us a source for your opinion?

 

[underacloud]

Well, this seems to just be your opinion, since I used the Vatican web site above and you didn’t think that was helpful, would you care to give us a source for your opinion?

Yes, it is just my opinion…as I indicated by saying “I think…”.

I don’t have official sources to defend this position. But neither are their sources that defend any other particular position on this issues, other than such as the one you provided which illustrates that there is a general principle that some regard is to be given to what one wears. I don’t think anyone denies this, but there is clearly disagreement about what the standards ought to be.

But circumstances are nonetheless a consideration. I’ve attended masses in cathedrals where the norm is to dress up (eg dress pants and shirt for men) and I’ve attended mass said on hikes where everyone is dirty, smelly, and generally attired in a way unacceptable to any other circumstance you could say mass in.

The whole question of modesty (in relation to mass attire or in general) is a difficult one and I don’t pretend to have the answers.

 

[Bezant]

If you lot keep it up, perhaps “eight-year-olds’ bare shoulders” will top “veils” and (excuse my language) “women in trousers” as a popular modesty rant on CAF.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think fixating on how people are dressed is much more offensive to God than how people are dressed. Dress is a personal issue that people should deal with on their own, and if truly inappropriate then the pastor, not a vigilante layman, should address the congregant.

Seriously, if you go to Mass to examine how the women are dressed and come back to the internet to complain about how immodest the women are, you need to readjust your priorities.

Please refer to the post where anyone here has said they had approached someone else directly about their dress. OK…so where did the charge of “vigilante layman” come from? After that, explain how you came to the conclusion that anyone had gone to Mass with the goal of examining how the other members of the faithful were dressed? I totally agree that it is a good idea to remain as undistracted as possible by what others do, but I think you also have to admit that at some point (which includes when distraction was precisely the goal when the clothing was selected) it can hardly be helped to be distracted by the actions of others. So if someone comes to Mass with the goal of looking sexy and someone else wishes that they’d leave the sexy clothing at home, how is it a “personal issue that people should deal with on their own” when the clothing is selected, but not a “personal issue that people should deal with on their own” when it is the thoughts and not the exterior actions that are the problem? Why is it not OK to “judge” in one case, but it is OK to “judge” in the other case? If God will be offended if we do not leave the one alone, why is it that God is pleased when we are not so indulgent with the second? The priorities that would lead to this do not seem internally consistent.

It is a spiritual work of mercy to bear wrongs patiently and to forgive others, but it is also a work of mercy to admonish the sinner and to instruct the ignorant. These all go together, and are not at cross-purposes. Instruction and discussion can happen here in total anonymity, so that everyone can share their views in a way that is not likely to happen at the parish level.

 

[adrift]

Have you ever seen how short little girls’ dresses were in the 40s, 50s and 60s? My mom made her first communion in 1960 and that dress was SHORT. We routinely let our toddler girls run topless at the beach. Kindergarteners flip around on the bars without a care as to whether their panties are showing… There is a level of innocence in these little ones that we need to protect, and I think that it starts with not obsessing about things like how wide a shoulder strap is. No eight-year-old looks in the mirror and contemplates the sex appeal of a shoulder. There is a time for teaching modesty, and a time for girls to carry that burden, but we also need to let them be kids and dress up and not worry too much about it until they need to. I don’t see this:
dhgate.com/beautiful-floor-length-first-communion-dress/p-ff80808136a65aef0136a667762705c2.html

As the gateway ensemble to shocking confirmation attire.

I don’t know what you mean by short but here is my first communion in the 50’s.

 

[allhers]

Yes, it is just my opinion…as I indicated by saying “I think…”.

I don’t have official sources to defend this position. But neither are their sources that defend any other particular position on this issues, other than such as the one you provided which illustrates that there is a general principle that some regard is to be given to what one wears. I don’t think anyone denies this, but there is clearly disagreement about what the standards ought to be.

But circumstances are nonetheless a consideration. I’ve attended masses in cathedrals where the norm is to dress up (eg dress pants and shirt for men) and I’ve attended mass said on hikes where everyone is dirty, smelly, and generally attired in a way unacceptable to any other circumstance you could say mass in.

The whole question of modesty (in relation to mass attire or in general) is a difficult one and I don’t pretend to have the answers.

First of all, I don’t think I would have even batted an eye to begin with, but…since the OP asked, I was giving my opinion. It does seem to me that I had read somewhere, in the past, that spaghetti straps and sleeveless tops and dresses were not a good choice to wear to Mass.

I wasn’t pretending to have all the answers either. I sighted a source from the Vatican, and now I have another one.

Pilgrims to the Vatican may have their own stories of disappointment or near misses to tell. On sweltering summer days in Rome, scores of visitors are turned away from St. Peter’s Basilica or the Vatican Museums because they’re not dressed decently.

Transparent clothing, halter and tank tops, spaghetti-straps, and shorts or skirts that don’t reach the knees** are strictly forbidden**.

(my bold)
source: Catholic News Service
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0903275.htm

 

[yellowbird]

That is a strong statement. How do you know that spaghetti straps offend God?

Based on the post above, apparently spaghetti straps offend the Pope?

Close enough.

(Please know that I’m only joking. I don’t give a hoot what anyone else wears. I speak only for myself and my own children. There is a young man I sometimes see at daily noon mass - he must come during his lunch hour straight from work as a mechanic - he wears overalls splattered with greese - and on his hands. I’m happy every time I see him.)

 

[SouthCatholic]

Seven and eight year old girls don’t go on job interviews. They aren’t held to the standards of adults because they are innocent and don’t have adult bodies. They are children. Let’s not contribute to their sexualization by making them body-conscious before it’s necessary. If you don’t enjoy the style, fine. Don’t buy it. But there is nothing vulgar, indecent, or disrespectful about the shoulder of a small girl who still goes home and plays with dolls and sleeps in a princess bed.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Finally some common sense!

 

[underacloud]

First of all, I don’t think I would have even batted an eye to begin with, but…since the OP asked, I was giving my opinion. It does seem to me that I had read somewhere, in the past, that spaghetti straps and sleeveless tops and dresses were not a good choice to wear to Mass.

I wasn’t pretending to have all the answers either. I sighted a source from the Vatican, and now I have another one.

Pilgrims to the Vatican may have their own stories of disappointment or near misses to tell. On sweltering summer days in Rome, scores of visitors are turned away from St. Peter’s Basilica or the Vatican Museums because they’re not dressed decently.

Transparent clothing, halter and tank tops, spaghetti-straps, and shorts or skirts that don’t reach the knees** are strictly forbidden**.

(my bold)
source: Catholic News Service
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0903275.htm

I am aware of the dress standards applied at St Peter’s Bascilica etc. Often the signs themselves are posted in these sorts of threads. They do not in themselves constitute a teaching on this matter, or a worldwide norm. But they are food for thought…

 

[PatriceA]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Finally some common sense!

I’ve seen common sense in every comment in this thread, just difference of opinions.

 

[SusanneT]

Seven and eight year old girls don’t go on job interviews. They aren’t held to the standards of adults because they are innocent and don’t have adult bodies. They are children. Let’s not contribute to their sexualization by making them body-conscious before it’s necessary. If you don’t enjoy the style, fine. Don’t buy it. But there is nothing vulgar, indecent, or disrespectful about the shoulder of a small girl who still goes home and plays with dolls and sleeps in a princess bed.

Well put - I totally agree.

The only thing I might add is that there is nothing wrong with teaching them that Church is special and they might want to wear something even nicer to Church but equally as they get older that modesty is for all the time not just Church.

 

[Debora123]

Good grief people, these are* little girls*! :nope:

When I was a little girl and living in South America, I used to run around the beach topless… if not completely naked. Not saying anyone should go to Church that way, but come on, “little girls should never wear spaghetti straps for any occasion??” Jeez oh Petes, these are little children.

Seriously, why the need to sexualize everything? This just seems so sick to me.

 

[Debora123]

I think fixating on how people are dressed is much more offensive to God than how people are dressed. Dress is a personal issue that people should deal with on their own, and if truly inappropriate then the pastor, not a vigilante layman, should address the congregant.

Seriously, if you go to Mass to examine how the women are dressed and come back to the internet to complain about how immodest the women are, you need to readjust your priorities.

I know, right? Not to mention little girls!

Sooo messed up on so many levels.

 

[Debora123]

Seven and eight year old girls don’t go on job interviews. They aren’t held to the standards of adults because they are innocent and don’t have adult bodies. They are children. Let’s not contribute to their sexualization by making them body-conscious before it’s necessary. If you don’t enjoy the style, fine. Don’t buy it. But there is nothing vulgar, indecent, or disrespectful about the shoulder of a small girl who still goes home and plays with dolls and sleeps in a princess bed.

My thoughts exactly.

This whole notion of sexualizing and objectifying women’s bodies at an early age is just disgusting to me.