Spanking may be linked to later mental disorders

[pnewton]

But but but Lifesitenews distorts their headlines and is automatically ignored. Thus, will people lapping up this garbage study agree to disgard it too?

How did LSN report it?

 

[austenbosten]

True absolutely true, the phrase itself goes back to Cicero…but since when did Cicero ever witness kids bring guns to school and shooting up the place, when did he witness kids publicly humiliating a poor old widow and driving her to tears? When did he witness kids resort to crime because “it’s fun and I saw it in a video game.”

I think if Cicero came to our time he would throw his hands up in the air and say he was wrong and our generation had the worst kids.

 

[maryjk]

Okay, here is why I don’t believe anything reported as research. I tried to find anything in the original research to explain why this result is so skewed away from common sense. I found only one statement, but I think it explains that this rather poor scientific study came up with its conclusion:

Note the extreme cases they included with children who were spanked. Anyone without an agenda would have the brains to separate sexually abused kids, kids from violent homes, and such, from others. This extremely biased an ill-devised study did not study spanking. It incorporated a multitude of true high risk factors in with those who spanked and drew a false conclusion from this garbage of a method.

You might want to read your own post.

“We were looking at people who used physical punishment as a regular means to discipline their children.” However, the analysis excluded individuals who reported more severe maltreatment such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, physical neglect, emotional neglect, or exposure to intimate partner violence.

The analysis excluded those people. Not included them. You call their method garbage, what do you call your method???

OK, a few years ago, I was out shopping.
There was an older lady with a teenage daughter in the aisle, and I heard their voices getting a little louder. The daughter started mouthing off, and cursed at the mother.
The mother did not hesitate. She smacked the daughter straight away, t**hen launched into a 5 minute tirade dressing down the daughter for her behavior, language, style of dress, friends, and the wisdom of violating clearly set out rules **under a roof she does not own and pays for no part of.

Sorry, if a teenaged girl is violating so many rules the mother has lost control of her home. Chances are the mother was there when the girl got dressed or was at least there when the girl got into the car, why not stop her then, if she was dressed in violation of the house rules? And I am betting her friendship with these terrible girls didn’t just start that day, most like she has had them for a while. Why didn’t the mother put a stop to the friendship when it started? Did the daughter’s language just turn bad? Or did the mother not mention it until the tirade at the store? The store isn’t the place to take care of these types of problems. The problems didn’t just start today. Maybe the mother needs to be a mother every day, and parent her child everyday, not just at the store when she is at her wits end.

 

[vz71]

Sorry, if a teenaged girl is violating so many rules the mother has lost control of her home. Chances are the mother was there when the girl got dressed or was at least there when the girl got into the car, why not stop her then, if she was dressed in violation of the house rules? And I am betting her friendship with these terrible girls didn’t just start that day, most like she has had them for a while. Why didn’t the mother put a stop to the friendship when it started? Did the daughter’s language just turn bad? Or did the mother not mention it until the tirade at the store? The store isn’t the place to take care of these types of problems. The problems didn’t just start today. Maybe the mother needs to be a mother every day, and parent her child everyday, not just at the store when she is at her wits end.

I think you are reading much more into it then was there.

She had not lost control, she was in control of the entire situation. Even had control over a person that wanted to step in. It is my estimation that her response was measured, controlled, and had the exact effect she was wanting.

As to being a mother every day…I cannot say one way or the other.
What psychic ability do you have that provides you with such insider information?

 

[pnewton]

The analysis excluded those people. Not included them. You call their method garbage, what do you call your method?

A mistake. I missed that. I was getting frustrated (and still am) over not being able to find this data. It it had been referenced, I could have caught it.

I retract my statement. I do not know if it was garbage or not. I do know I am not going to trash God’s teaching in favor of it. I am curious as to her sampling method and reporting method. It seems it is all adults self-reporting. Also, I want to know the researchers other areas of expertise, like does she have children she has successfully raised.

 

[maryjk]

I think you are reading much more into it then was there.

She had not lost control, she was in control of the entire situation. Even had control over a person that wanted to step in. It is my estimation that her response was measured, controlled, and had the exact effect she was wanting.

As to being a mother every day…I cannot say one way or the other.
What psychic ability do you have that provides you with such insider information?

Well, let me see. The girl has friends that the mother doesn’t approve of. She uses language that is against the rules. She dresses inappropriately. And her behavior is such that she is still being spanked as a teenager.

Something the mother is doing isn’t working.

 

[vz71]

A mistake. I missed that. I was getting frustrated (and still am) over not being able to find this data. It it had been referenced, I could have caught it.

One that I made as well.
The article is not very clearly written.

And it still suffers a fatal flaw, correlation does not equal causation.

 

[He_Man]

How did LSN report it?

They didn’t to my knowledge; just pointing out that LSN gets discounted when it posts what is considered misleading my its detractors. Will the same happen here?

 

[Bookcat]

Readers who have time can look up the article by Dr. Richard Cross…

The article I mentioned tis very good

 

[vz71]

Well, let me see. The girl has friends that the mother doesn’t approve of. She uses language that is against the rules. She dresses inappropriately. And her behavior is such that she is still being spanked as a teenager.

Something the mother is doing isn’t working.

OR…

As is the case with most teens, she has friends that are not approved of, she breaks and pushes the rules, and she chose a public moment to try to exert her independance through a display ofloud and public profanity directed at her mother.

Her mother, recognizing this moment for what it was pushed back the rules in the same public manner. Put her daughter right back in line, and taught her a lesson concerning behavior and consequnces.

Were the mother a poor mother, the display would have gone unnoticed or ignored and the teaching moment lost.

Either way, we do not have the information necessary to label this mother as bad.
I do however recognize when good parenting is exercised.

A single incident does not indicate what may or may not be the norm.

So again I must ask, what psychic ability do you possess that provides you with such insider information?

 

[maryjk]

OR…

As is the case with most teens, she has friends that are not approved of, she breaks and pushes the rules, and she chose a public moment to try to exert her independance through a display ofloud and public profanity directed at her mother.

Her mother, recognizing this moment for what it was pushed back the rules in the same public manner. Put her daughter right back in line, and taught her a lesson concerning behavior and consequnces.

Were the mother a poor mother, the display would have gone unnoticed or ignored and the teaching moment lost.

Either way, we do not have the information necessary to label this mother as bad.
I do however recognize when good parenting is exercised.

A single incident does not indicate what may or may not be the norm.

So again I must ask, what psychic ability do you possess that provides you with such insider information?

By using the same information you had. You saw good parenting, based on your description, I saw poor parenting.

So you label her as “good,” and I don’t.

I don’t see berating your teenage daughter about things like dress and friends, out in public, a sign of good parenting. I see it as a sign that the mother has lost control, and instead of handling the current situation she has to resurrect the past. She should have addressed the language and left it at that.

That doesn’t even address the fact that she also spanked the teen. Although you said “slapped.” Did the mother really slap the teen, in the face???

 

[vz71]

By using the same information you had. You saw good parenting, based on your description, I saw poor parenting.

So you label her as “good,” and I don’t.

I don’t see berating your teenage daughter about things like dress and friends, out in public, a sign of good parenting. I see it as a sign that the mother has lost control, and instead of handling the current situation she has to resurrect the past. She should have addressed the language and left it at that.

That doesn’t even address the fact that she also spanked the teen. Although you said “slapped.” Did the mother really slap the teen, in the face???

I endeavor not to label her one way or the other.
The example I witnessed I believe to be an example of good parenting.

However, the statement: "Maybe the mother needs to be a mother every day, and parent her child everyday, not just at the store when she is at her wits end. " provided earlier indicates a judgement upon the mother for instances not mentioned or known.

What psychic ability have you that provides the insider information necessary for such a judgement?

• And yes, it was a slap to the face. And the sound it made was every bit as loud as the profanity exiting the teenagers mouth seconds earlier.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yeah, well, I slapped my punk son in front of the London Eye a few years ago…He had just called me a btch. What do the non-spankers recommend, having a detente with the punk to determine just which of my actions cause him to label me a btch?



Actually I desperately wanted HIS DAD to whack him one, even back him up to a wall and yell in his face, but

My crime? I had told him that his pants had gotten dirty from the tube ride we were just on. Oh, yeah, and I may have tried to take his arm in a gesture of warmth as we crossed a street.

 

[austenbosten]

Yes, but they were never at a level of frequency and intensity that it resulted in schools holding shooting drills and inquiring teachers to bear firearms. I just don’t see what you see, I see a whole culture in decline, you think it’s just the same as it has always been…I don’t see it.

 

[vz71]

Yes, but they were never at a level of frequency and intensity that it resulted in schools holding shooting drills and inquiring teachers to bear firearms. I just don’t see what you see, I see a whole culture in decline, you think it’s just the same as it has always been…I don’t see it.

Comparetively speaking…we are tame.

Look at Rome.
They lined streets with crucifixions. The fed people to wild animals for sport.
Nero used human lampstands to light his garden.

Today we have regular oddballs taking guns to school and making headlines.
Back then, it was status quo to murder on an industrial scale.

 

[maryjk]

I endeavor not to label her one way or the other.
The example I witnessed I believe to be an example of good parenting.

However, the statement: "Maybe the mother needs to be a mother every day, and parent her child everyday, not just at the store when she is at her wits end. " provided earlier indicates a judgement upon the mother for instances not mentioned or known.

What psychic ability have you that provides the insider information necessary for such a judgement?

• And yes, it was a slap to the face. And the sound it made was every bit as loud as the profanity exiting the teenagers mouth seconds earlier.

There is no psychic ability. I don’t need it, do you? You seem to think that I need psychic ability to do as you did, look at a situation and come to a conclusion.

Yeah, well, I slapped my punk son in front of the London Eye a few years ago…He had just called me a btch. What do the non-spankers recommend, having a detente with the punk to determine just which of my actions cause him to label me a btch?

My son has never called me or anyone a b*tch. Does your son call other people names? Is this something he does all of the time? If it is abnormal, what happened? Had he eaten, slept?

Every time someone talks about spanking, it is claimed to be a last resort. And that it isn’t hitting, it is spanking. But when you slap the face of a child, you are hitting and it certainly isn’t the last resport. Do it to me, and you will be arrested. Why is it okay to do it to a child?

 

[vz71]

There is no psychic ability. I don’t need it, do you? You seem to think that I need psychic ability to do as you did, look at a situation and come to a conclusion.

I came to a conclusion about the situation.

You came to a conclusion of the mother’s parenting.

Big difference.

I have plenty of information to decide about the situation before me.
You do not have sufficient information to determine if the mother is good, bad, or anywhere in between.
You have very openly declared that she is not a mother every day, that somehow she is shirking her responsibilities as a parent.

Now I know I did not give sufficient information for such a judgement.
Where are you getting your information?

 

[sw85]

Obviously you don’t have children. How do you have a civil conversation with a two year old trying to put the cat in the toilet?

Here’s the real rub!

Suppose a young child reaches for the electrical socket, fork in hand. (Yes, that would never happen – this is an academic discussion). You know that if he reaches it, he will be shocked and badly hurt, maybe even killed. Obviously you don’t want this to happen – it’s a BAD THING.

But how do you represent a BAD THING to the unformed sensibilities of a child? Reasoned discussion won’t do it: their reason is not yet fully formed. They have only a very dim understanding of BAD THING and what it means for something to be a BAD THING.

Adults and older children can draw a link from cause to effect, but young children can’t unless the stimulus is immediate and visceral. Their minds just aren’t set up to work that way.

So it may be necessary to slap the child’s hand away. Now he knows: socket = BAD THING = avoid.

Obviously this isn’t spanking, but it is forceful physical correction. And this is sometimes necessary. You have to form the sensibilities before you can form the mind. Once you’ve formed the mind, correction becomes unnecessary if you’ve done a good job – they know not to touch the socket. And correction becomes fruitless (because impossible) if you’ve done a bad job training the sensibilities, because the window has closed.

When does that window close? I dunno, I don’t know enough. I think pretty early, maybe 5 or 6.

 

[vz71]

Every time someone talks about spanking, it is claimed to be a last resort. And that it isn’t hitting, it is spanking. But when you slap the face of a child, you are hitting and it certainly isn’t the last resport. Do it to me, and you will be arrested. Why is it okay to do it to a child?

I don’t.
I follow what is necessary for the situation.

Do you really wish to provide children the same rights as adults?

 

[austenbosten]

Comparetively speaking…we are tame.

Look at Rome.
They lined streets with crucifixions. The fed people to wild animals for sport.
Nero used human lampstands to light his garden.

Today we have regular oddballs taking guns to school and making headlines.
Back then, it was status quo to murder on an industrial scale.

I’d rather do comparisons to a civilization more similar to ours, than one in another geographic location and from another epoch. I was thinking about comparing America today and America 30, 50, 100, 200 years?