Speaking in Tongues.. (more on Charismatics) Karl can you respond?

[Elzee]

A friend of mine belongs to the Intercessors of the Lamb. She said she was told that everyone has a ‘prayer tongue’ - it’s only a matter of being able to fully submit yourself to God.
This sounds beautiful, but it also confused me if this is what the Interecessors teach because I thought that the Bible says not everyone is given this gift?

 

[johnshelby]

Joe Sarto:

Over the past 2,000 years, have any of our Popes EVER publicly recommended the practice of speaking in tongues? The answer to that question should tell you something…

i’ve never heard a pope recommend the practice, but then
i’m sure they have all asked us to make ourselves more open
to the Holy Spirit, in any way He chooses to come to us…

have you ever heard of a pope condemning the practice of
speaking in tongues? i’m not being smart… i am not real
familiar with the topic…

 

[CatholicChef]

From what I understand the Church looks at it as useless act unless there is someone there who can interpret what the person is saying.
Like so many others, it makes me uncomfortable and because of that I feel those you do practice this should keep it confined to there own charismatic group. It just reminds me too much of some church services I attended as a child. I was actually terrified.
“God is a God of peace, not a God of confusion.” (not sure of the verse, but I do think it was St. Paul who said that)

 

[Matt16_18]

Elzee:

I thought that the Bible says not everyone is given this gift?

Paul teaches that not everyone has ALL the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit. He does not teach that the gift of tongues is not given to everyone that is open to receiving the gift.

 

[Matt16_18]

johnshelby:

have you ever heard of a pope condemning the practice of
speaking in tongues?

Pope John Paul II could pray in tongues.

 

[Matt16_18]

CatholicChef:

From what I understand the Church looks at it as useless act unless there is someone there who can interpret what the person is saying

The Catholic Church teaches no such thing.

 

[Matt16_18]

gusano:

I am now a firm Believer in this wonderful Gift of tongues and it is not about me, It is about THE GIVER.

It is about The Awesome Lord who gives us gifts so we can do what He commands us, and worship Him as He deserves.

Thanks for sharing your testimony!

 

[gusano]

Matt16_18:

We receive the Holy Spirit through the Sacrament of Baptism. The gift of tongues is a charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit, not a sanctifying gift of the Holy Spirit.
** Obviously not all validly baptized Catholics have the charismatic gift of tongues**.

Receive; The Hoy Spirit is bestowed into us at Baptism.
BESTOW = “to put, or hide away in a safe place.”

Obviously The Spirit is still hid away in a safe place in the case of many Catholics.
much like a “Baron of Beef Roast” is still hid in the Deep-Freezer.

For any Catholic to Get the Holy Spirit out of the Deep-Freeze and into the oven (MANIFESTATION) requires that he / she come to Jesus at the Altar (since it is He who Baptizes in the Holy Spirit…Matt 3: 11)
If at the Altar one OFFERS his body as a living sacrifice …according to Rom. 12: 1 and ASKS The Father…according to Luke 11: 13…
Catholics will be able to say like the Samaritans
told** the woman at the well;
“No longer does our Faith depend on your story. We have heard (seen) for ourselves and know that this really is the Savior of the world.”** (John 4: 42)

Meantime, there is EXPERIENCE or there is SPECULATION…
It hinges on our SURRENDER to Jesus Christ, our Risen Lord, who Baptizes in the Holy Spirit.

gusano

 

[Matt16_18]

**Catechism of the Catholic Church

2003** Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Kristina P.:

Are you saying that those who don’t speak in tongues haven’t received the Holy Spirit? Because that was the view I was objecting to.

There were signs given to those who recieved the Holy Spirit. Tongues were a manifestation of the Holy Spirit,just like in Corneleus house. I personally do not believe everyone automatically recieves this gift when they recieve the Holy Spirit. God is in charge of His gifts and He distributes them as He sees fit. I do believe God wants to equipp every believer with this gift but only when He sees we are ready for them. God Bless

 

[taustin]

Matt16_18:

Pope John Paul II could pray in tongues.

I am sincerely interested in this. How do you know this? or, what is the source of your testimony?

 

[Church_Militant]

SPOKENWORD:

There were signs given to those who recieved the Holy Spirit. Tongues were a manifestation of the Holy Spirit,just like in Corneleus house. I personally do not believe everyone automatically recieves this gift when they recieve the Holy Spirit. God is in charge of His gifts and He distributes them as He sees fit. I do believe God wants to equipp every believer with this gift but only when He sees we are ready for them

. God BlessSW,
You cannot support that opinion from the Word of God.

I personally think that these gifts have been far far overrated by people who want some sort of emotional rush in their religious experience.

Having been a deacon in an Assembly of God church for many years I saw services where it was like a circus or like a contest to see who could come off as most “spiritual”, and it was shameful.

Again and again I saw where Charismatics/Pentecostals let disorder reign in the services in clear violation of the Word of God. If that is the case then I have to wonder who the source really is. Not necessarily the devil, though that is certainly possible in any supernatural occurance, but it might also be the result of yielding to the flesh and the ego, something the NT warns us against.

Personally, I think the whole thing is way over rated and in many cases some people seem to think there is something lacking in the believer who does not speak in tongues. I have prayed in tongues in the past as well as been used by God for other gifts, but I am not a “Charismatic Catholic”, though I know some good ones. I do not like the rampant emotionalism and disorder of a service where the NT is not followed concerning the expression of these gifts.

If I was to desire such gifts, I would much prefer that I express them as St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi did.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Church_Militant]

Matt16_18:

Pope John Paul II could

pray in tongues.In the sense that he was fluent in about 8 different languages…

However, I know of nothing that says that His Holiness was involved in that, and I would not go around making such statements.
It’s disingenious and misleading. :tsktsk:
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Elzee]

Church Militant:

SW,
You cannot support that opinion from the Word of God.

I personally think that these gifts have been far far overrated by people who want some sort of emotional rush in their religious experience.

Having been a deacon in an Assembly of God church for many years I saw services where it was like a circus or like a contest to see who could come off as most “spiritual”, and it was shameful.

Again and again I saw where Charismatics/Pentecostals let disorder reign in the services in clear violation of the Word of God. If that is the case then I have to wonder who the source really is. Not necessarily the devil, though that is certainly possible in any supernatural occurance, but it might also be the result of yielding to the flesh and the ego, something the NT warns us against.

Personally, I think the whole thing is way over rated and in many cases some people seem to think there is something lacking in the believer who does not speak in tongues. I have prayed in tongues in the past as well as been used by God for other gifts, but I am not a “Charismatic Catholic”, though I know some good ones. I do not like the rampant emotionalism and disorder of a service where the NT is not followed concerning the expression of these gifts.

Excellent point. I’ve been to a Charismatic Mass and there were many times throughout the Mass when the Mass was essentially stopped as people prayed in tongues - especially during the consecration. This got me wondering…is this solely the work of the Holy Spirit, or can someone control whether or not they pray in tongues, say, during the consecration or elevations? Or, are they so much under the power of the Spirit that they have no ‘choice’?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Church Militant:

SW,
You cannot support that opinion from the Word of God.

I personally think that these gifts have been far far overrated by people who want some sort of emotional rush in their religious experience.

Having been a deacon in an Assembly of God church for many years I saw services where it was like a circus or like a contest to see who could come off as most “spiritual”, and it was shameful.

Again and again I saw where Charismatics/Pentecostals let disorder reign in the services in clear violation of the Word of God. If that is the case then I have to wonder who the source really is. Not necessarily the devil, though that is certainly possible in any supernatural occurance, but it might also be the result of yielding to the flesh and the ego, something the NT warns us against.

Personally, I think the whole thing is way over rated and in many cases some people seem to think there is something lacking in the believer who does not speak in tongues. I have prayed in tongues in the past as well as been used by God for other gifts, but I am not a “Charismatic Catholic”, though I know some good ones. I do not like the rampant emotionalism and disorder of a service where the NT is not followed concerning the expression of these gifts.

If I was to desire such gifts, I would much prefer that I express them as St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi did.
Pax vobiscum,

Sure I can. The Lord desires to give us His gifts. Holy Scriptures clearly state that we are to seek after His Gifts.Because some have abused Gods gifts you seem to think they have no value in the church body.Your attitude should be :Lord here I am. I am open to recieve whatever gifts you have for me. You see you have no desire for this Gift and God will never go against your will. You end up losing out because you were not open. I feel saddened .Every Gift from above is to be treasured. God Bless

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Elzee:

Excellent point. I’ve been to a Charismatic Mass and there were many times throughout the Mass when the Mass was essentially stopped as people prayed in tongues - especially during the consecration. This got me wondering…is this solely the work of the Holy Spirit, or can someone control whether or not they pray in tongues, say, during the consecration or elevations? Or, are they so much under the power of the Spirit that they have no ‘choice’?

To those who do not have this Gift naturally they will never understand it and will only put it down. How sad. God Bless

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

(I posted this on the Charismatic Catholics thread as well).
Correct me if I’m wrong…but I don’t think having the ability to speak in an understandable language is the only form of tongues. Consider 1 Cor. 13:1:
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
This implies that some people have been (and still are?) given the gift to speak in heavenly languages…

my brother, The grammar of I Cor 13:1 for “if” is of the nature "if it were possible and it is not " and thus rules out the possiblity of speaking a heavenly language as does Paul in II Cor 12.

With the tongues (taiß glwssaiß). Instrumental case. Mentioned first because really least and because the Corinthians put undue emphasis on this gift. Plato (Symposium, 197) and many others have written on love, but Paul has here surpassed them all in this marvellous prose-poem. It comes like a sweet bell right between the jangling noise of the gifts in chapters 12 and 14. It is a pity to dissect this gem or to pull to pieces this fragrant rose, petal by petal. Fortunately Paul’s language here calls for little comment, for it is the language of the heart. “The greatest, strongest, deepest thing Paul ever wrote” (Harnack).
The condition (ean and present subjunctive, lalw kai mh ecw, though the form is identical with present indicative) is of the third class, a supposable case. But have not love (agaphn de mh ecw). This is the crux of the chapter. Love is the way par excellence of 1 Corinthians 12:31. It is not yet clearly certain that agaph (a back-formation from agapaw) occurs before the LXX and the N.T. Plutarch used agaphsiß. Deissmann (Bible Studies, p. 198) once suspected it on an inscription in Pisidia. It is still possible that it occurs in the papyri (Prayer to Isis). See Light from the Ancient East, p. 75 for details.

bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=1co&chapter=013&verse=001&next=002&prev=013

2 Corinthians 12
Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

chairsmatics must read into the text, to get the possiblity of speaking in an unknown heavenly langauage in I cor 13.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Daniel Marsh:

my brother, The grammar of I Cor 13:1 for “if” is of the nature "if it were possible and it is not " and thus rules out the possiblity of speaking a heavenly language as does Paul in II Cor 12.

bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=1co&chapter=013&verse=001&next=002&prev=013

2 Corinthians 12
Paul’s Vision and His Thorn
1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

chairsmatics must read into the text, to get the possiblity of speaking in an unknown heavenly langauage in I cor 13.

What happened in Cornelius house?. Acts 10;44-46 God Bless

 

[Church_Militant]

SPOKENWORD:

To those who do not have this Gift naturally they will never understand it and will only put it down. How sad. God Bless

spoken the very same way that any cult member would.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Church Militant:

spoken the very same way that any cult member would.

Are you saying I belong to a Cult? God Bless