Speaking In Tongues

[Jerry-Jet]

Who was the last peron canonized by the Catholic Church who was known to have had the gift of tongues?

Just a few of the saints had that gift and it is very rare.

 

[Palladio]

I picked out the following from the CCC. I realize it does not fully answer your questions, but it may help. Does your parish have a charismatic prayer group? If so, maybe they have some literature that would help. Since the literature itself seems to be a issue, check the literature bibliographies. The Vatican documents only mention the charisms as related to religious orders.

1. “So that she can fulfuill her mission, the Holy Spirit ‘bestows upon [the Church] varied heirachic and charismatic gifts, and in this way directs her.’”
2. “the Holy Spirit, whom Christ the head pours out on his members, builds, animates, and sanctifies the Church.”
3. “Charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit.”
4. “The Church is the place where we know the Holy Spirit.” Various ways are given including
   " --in the charisms and ministries by which the Church is built up."

951"…to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."

2003.“Whatever their character–sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues–charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.”

1. “They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ.”

An issue that is also brought out in the CCC is that of discernment. Prophecy, for instance when uttered in a prayer meeting, is subject to discernment. Is what is spoken really from God or individual imagination? There is generally somebody in the group with the gift of discernment, not a brand new member.

To me, this is helpful: though the primary meaning of ‘speaking in tongues’ must be to speak foreign languages not learned any other way but through the Holy Spirit.

Remember, too, what some seem to be claiming: prophecy, praying in tongues (still unclear examples and no definitions given), and all on the basis of no evidence at all.

There’s not a little arrogance involved: now some are praying for me to understand what they themselves have failed to convey even just a little bit of.

False prophets there will always be, until you know who returns for the second time.

Still not sure who these folks are.

God bless.

 

[po18guy]

(My bold)

It should be mentioned that “baptism of the Holy Spirit” doesn’t need to be “performed”. It’s not something that is done to me, rather it is something that I desire and ask for. Sometimes people are prayed over for the BotHS, by one person or many (like a prayer group) or I can sit in my living room and ask away. So, the idea that the bishop would have knowledge or consent seems foreign to me.

People talk about it like it is an event, and I imagine it can seem like that, but I can’t nail down my BotHS. Was it being prayed over by a Charismatic priest after a Mass? Or when I prayed in my room? Or did it happen when I went to confession this particular time (because things were really different after that one)? All I will share with you is that it happened prior to a Life in the Spirit seminar.

I would think that the Holy Spirit knew of your willing heart and Graced you with manifestations while you were enroute.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

You do so the way the saints in the Catholic Church have been doing for many, many years before the Charismatic movement began.

EXACTLY! Each was empowered by the Holy Spirit. My hardened heart responded to this “baptism”. Some, such as yourself, do not need it. That is God’s Grace in action. He knows my many defects, but still arranges that I may become less wretched in His sight.

Praise God!

 

[rlg94086]

Who was the last peron canonized by the Catholic Church who was known to have had the gift of tongues?

Just a few of the saints had that gift and it is very rare.

I only found two on the online Patron Saints Index:

Vincent Ferrer - Late 14th/Early 15th Century catholic-forum.com/saints/saintv03.htm
Francis Xavier - 16th Century catholic-forum.com/saints/saintf08.htm

Apparently, it has become less rare lately.

 

[rlg94086]

EXACTLY! Each was empowered by the Holy Spirit. My hardened heart responded to this “baptism”. Some, such as yourself, do not need it. That is God’s Grace in action. He knows my many defects, but still arranges that I may become less wretched in His sight.

Praise God!

Why would I not need it? I don’t understand. We all have defects.

In your last post to me you said - ***“If you are willing to decrease yourself so that He may increase, you have the spiritual experience of a lifetime just waiting.”

---

Are you saying that by praying to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and asking Him to send the Holy Spirit and give me these gifts (if it is His will), that I didn’t “decrease myself” enough? I am not able to have “the spiritual experience of a lifetime” for what reason? Because I don’t go to a Charismatic Prayer meeting? That’s the only way the Holy Spirit will give me these gifts?

 

[po18guy]

Why would I not need it? I don’t understand. We all have defects.

In your last post to me you said - ***“If you are willing to decrease yourself so that He may increase, you have the spiritual experience of a lifetime just waiting.”

---

Are you saying that by praying to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and asking Him to send the Holy Spirit and give me these gifts (if it is His will), that I didn’t “decrease myself” enough? I am not able to have “the spiritual experience of a lifetime” for what reason? Because I don’t go to a Charismatic Prayer meeting? That’s the only way the Holy Spirit will give me these gifts?

Please forgive my inability to clearly communicate in print.

I was only saying that maybe you don’t need the baptism in the Holy Spirit to release the gifts. They are probably already manifest in your life. I did need it. It has nothing to do with going to meetings or even praying before the Blessed Sacrament-this is only what I experienced and how I choose to live it out. It may not work for you or anyone else. It is just a personal testimony.

Submission to God in any form is decreasing yourself so that He may increase. Anyway, if you have a genuine interest in such things, please speak with a charismatic priest who will have credibility in answering your questions. You need not even be Catholic or want to be to ask questions.

Sometimes, I only confuse things further. I believe that is why I must pray for others, as my words fail.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[rlg94086]

Fair enough. I thank you for your testimony. I’m just trying to figure some of this stuff out. I think it would probably be better for me to just stay away from the Charismatic movement and continue to increase my faith the conventional way. This conversation has only distracted me from the deepening faith I have been gaining. If the Holy Spirit chooses to give me extraordinary gifts, then His will be done.

God bless,
Robert

Please forgive my inability to clearly communicate in print.

I was only saying that maybe you don’t need the baptism in the Holy Spirit to release the gifts. They are probably already manifest in your life. I did need it. It has nothing to do with going to meetings or even praying before the Blessed Sacrament-this is only what I experienced and how I choose to live it out. It may not work for you or anyone else. It is just a personal testimony.

Submission to God in any form is decreasing yourself so that He may increase. Anyway, if you have a genuine interest in such things, please speak with a charismatic priest who will have credibility in answering your questions. You need not even be Catholic or want to be to ask questions.

Sometimes, I only confuse things further. I believe that is why I must pray for others, as my words fail.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[tradition]

Fear.

Hi, I was just wondering about the following.
At Pentacost, all of the listeners HEARD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE AND UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE… Currently, everyone who says they are speaking in tongues has the listeners hearing “gibberish”. Can you explain this to me please?

imagesofheaven.com/

 

[tradition]

Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit. It is meant to edify others. It is also necessary to have someone with the gift of interpreting tongues.

Praying in tongues is not for the edification of others. It is the Holy Spirit praying for you. No one else need understand what is being said.

Similar to praying in tongues is singing in tongues, shouting in tongues, dancing in the Spirit, being slain in the Spirit, and other more esoteric things.

Hi
your image is so very beautiful. Could you tell me how I can get an image from my desk top to this forum? I tried asking the
the administration and that was three weeks ago.
Thanks for any help.

 

[po18guy]

Hi, I was just wondering about the following.
At Pentacost, all of the listeners HEARD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE AND UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE… Currently, everyone who says they are speaking in tongues has the listeners hearing “gibberish”. Can you explain this to me please?

imagesofheaven.com/

I believe that these are generally held to be ancient languages. This is all very mysterious, enough so that some who post here are in danger of lapsing into detraction, without ever seeking theological advice. The gifts of the Spirit are for everyone, to God’s benefit. It’s just that not every gift is for everyone.

The peace of Christ be with you.

 

[DebChris]

Fair enough. I thank you for your testimony. I’m just trying to figure some of this stuff out. I think it would probably be better for me to just stay away from the Charismatic movement and continue to increase my faith the conventional way. This conversation has only distracted me from the deepening faith I have been gaining. If the Holy Spirit chooses to give me extraordinary gifts, then His will be done.

God bless,
Robert

Our relationship with Jesus Christ is more important than the gifts themselves.
One reminder is “no man wants to be married for his money.”
For me, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit came at a time of deep crisis. I did not even know what the Charismatic Renewal was. I went on an Easter Retreat at the House of the Lord, at that time run by Marianists. I found myself returning. It was less a matter of my own seeking as it was God calling me. When I responded, I received the gift of tongues at one of the weekly prayer meetings. This retreat center was 50 miles from where I lived. I don’t remember telling too many people what had happened, especially as I had already been told not to bother coming home if I ever started speaking in tongues (after a visit to a friend’s Pentecostal church).
Some people have historically received the gift spontaneously while hanging out the wash or praying at home. I did have hands laid upon me. The gift was not something that I explicitly sought. I have learned to pray not “if God wills” but rather “according to God’s Will.” God wants only the best for his children.
I am also one of those people who tries to figure things out. In overanalyzing, it is easy to lose sight of what is really important when what is needed is to simply enter into the mystery. Again, the gift of tongues is less important than how God works in my life on a daily basis, and the changes that have taken place within me.

 

[rlg94086]

Hi DebChris,

Thank you for your testimony. I will relax and follow my calling. At this time, I feel no draw to our parish’s Charismatic group. Saturday at prayer with the Blessed Sacrament was the first time in 30+ years that I prayed for “gifts.” I will stop that immediately.

I always pray “if God wills” when I pray, and I don’t see the difference to “according to God’s will.” If you feel my prayers are inadequate, then I would appreciate some clarification here. Should I not pray for anything specific (i.e. for a new job, that my mother’s Parkinsons get better, that my brother’s heart softens, etc.)?

Pax,
Robert

Our relationship with Jesus Christ is more important than the gifts themselves.
One reminder is “no man wants to be married for his money.”
For me, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit came at a time of deep crisis. I did not even know what the Charismatic Renewal was. I went on an Easter Retreat at the House of the Lord, at that time run by Marianists. I found myself returning. It was less a matter of my own seeking as it was God calling me. When I responded, I received the gift of tongues at one of the weekly prayer meetings. This retreat center was 50 miles from where I lived. I don’t remember telling too many people what had happened, especially as I had already been told not to bother coming home if I ever started speaking in tongues (after a visit to a friend’s Pentecostal church).
Some people have historically received the gift spontaneously while hanging out the wash or praying at home. I did have hands laid upon me. The gift was not something that I explicitly sought. I have learned to pray not “if God wills” but rather “according to God’s Will.” God wants only the best for his children.
I am also one of those people who tries to figure things out. In overanalyzing, it is easy to lose sight of what is really important when what is needed is to simply enter into the mystery. Again, the gift of tongues is less important than how God works in my life on a daily basis, and the changes that have taken place within me.

 

[DebChris]

Hi DebChris,

Thank you for your testimony. I will relax and follow my calling. At this time, I feel no draw to our parish’s Charismatic group. Saturday at prayer with the Blessed Sacrament was the first time in 30+ years that I prayed for “gifts.” I will stop that immediately.

I always pray “if God wills” when I pray, and I don’t see the difference to “according to God’s will.” If you feel my prayers are inadequate, then I would appreciate some clarification here. Should I not pray for anything specific (i.e. for a new job, that my mother’s Parkinsons get better, that my brother’s heart softens, etc.)?

Pax,
Robert

Jesus was always healing somebody, on his way to heal somebody, or had just come from healing somebody. At one point, a person asking to be healed said “if you will it,” to which Jesus responded “of course I will it.” Often saying “if God wills” can indicate a certain amount of doubt. Praying “according to God’s Will” removes that doubt while also recognizing that not all healing is instantaneous. The man who was blind at first saw shadows like trees walking. While the woman’s hemorhage stopped immediately, another person was told to wash in the waters of Siloam. Scripture says that the physician prays to the Lord that his diagnosis may be correct. Sometimes our healing comes from God working through the medical arts.
To the question should I pray for anything specific, the answer is absolutely “Yes.” Pray for the reversal of your mother’s Parkinson’s, the new job, and your relationship with your brother. Ask God to open your own heart to His transforming love. We know that God gives each of us free will and that I cannot change any person other than myself; I need God’s help to do even that. The one thing that is important to remember in prayer is not prescribing for God. We pray specifically but without telling God how.

 

[JenniferMoon]

I’ve always been wary of tongues and never heard it myself, but I have friends who are charismatics and they say how incredible it is and that they could go on forever.

The only experience (with tongues) I have is a dream/vision I had many years ago. In one part, an angel dressed in roman attire was standing in the street. He unrolled a scroll and read from it. His voice came from everywhere and was in another language. I understood every word and it brought me to my knees weeping. I was told in this language that I will forget it all for a time and at some point later I will remember it all and the words that were spoken will come back to me.

I look forward to that day, because I feel protected. But the message itself was a grave one for those who do not believe.

 

[rlg94086]

I don’t have any doubt. When I say “if God wills,” it means the same thing as “according to God’s will.” I don’t see your distinction except in your prescription to pray to “open my heart to His transforming love.” Do you feel that I haven’t opened my heart at this point? Why are you instructing me this way?

Jesus was always healing somebody, on his way to heal somebody, or had just come from healing somebody. At one point, a person asking to be healed said “if you will it,” to which Jesus responded “of course I will it.” Often saying “if God wills” can indicate a certain amount of doubt. Praying “according to God’s Will” removes that doubt while also recognizing that not all healing is instantaneous. The man who was blind at first saw shadows like trees walking. While the woman’s hemorhage stopped immediately, another person was told to wash in the waters of Siloam. Scripture says that the physician prays to the Lord that his diagnosis may be correct. Sometimes our healing comes from God working through the medical arts.
To the question should I pray for anything specific, the answer is absolutely “Yes.” Pray for the reversal of your mother’s Parkinson’s, the new job, and your relationship with your brother. Ask God to open your own heart to His transforming love. We know that God gives each of us free will and that I cannot change any person other than myself; I need God’s help to do even that. The one thing that is important to remember in prayer is not prescribing for God. We pray specifically but without telling God how.

 

[DebChris]

I don’t have any doubt. When I say “if God wills,” it means the same thing as “according to God’s will.” I don’t see your distinction except in your prescription to pray to “open my heart to His transforming love.” Do you feel that I haven’t opened my heart at this point? Why are you instructing me this way?

I do not know to what extent you have opened your heart. The prayer is one that I constantly pray for myself. It may be worded like the song “open the eyes of my heart.” I do not always see as God sees and as I pray for the mind of Christ, I pray that I may see things as he would have me see them, and less as I see them myself. This allows me to respond to various situations in a more Christlike way and not according to my natural inclination.
Every relationship involves change. God is unchanging because He has no need for change. When I pray for God to “open my heart to His transforming love,” it allows me to see what changes I need to make in my life to be the more loving person that he would have me be. Often it reveals the sins I need to bring into the confessional.

 

[rlg94086]

God bless you on your journey.

Pax,
Robert

I do not know to what extent you have opened your heart. The prayer is one that I constantly pray for myself. It may be worded like the song “open the eyes of my heart.” I do not always see as God sees and as I pray for the mind of Christ, I pray that I may see things as he would have me see them, and less as I see them myself. This allows me to respond to various situations in a more Christlike way and not according to my natural inclination.
Every relationship involves change. God is unchanging because He has no need for change. When I pray for God to “open my heart to His transforming love,” it allows me to see what changes I need to make in my life to be the more loving person that he would have me be. Often it reveals the sins I need to bring into the confessional.

 

[lukewarm]

I agree that speaking in tongues makes sense for the Apostles to spread the Gospel. Modern day tongue speaking sounds like gibberish and no one even understands it. What’s the point of speaking in toungues that no one can even comprehend?

I honestly think they’re all faking it, sounds cynical but I think that’s what it is. If they don’t speak in tongues others will wonder why they don’t and won’t consider them saved. So they have to fake it en masse…

 

[DebChris]

I agree that speaking in tongues makes sense for the Apostles to spread the Gospel. Modern day tongue speaking sounds like gibberish and no one even understands it. What’s the point of speaking in toungues that no one can even comprehend?

I honestly think they’re all faking it, sounds cynical but I think that’s what it is. If they don’t speak in tongues others will wonder why they don’t and won’t consider them saved. So they have to fake it en masse…

This was exactly what I thought the first time I heard it, at a Pentecostal holiness church in Chicago.
The men and women went into separate closet like rooms to pray in tongues and made a loud noise. After a while they all gathered in the main sanctuary. A young boy was baptized while in the state of hysteria that I saw. My question was “where is the consent that comes from reason?”
What I did not know is that these pentecostal denominations resulted from individuals experiencing the gifts being excommunicated from fundamental denominations who did not accept the experience as valid. They also come from the large revivals of the 19th and 20th centuries. They lack the roots provided to the Charismatic Renewal that exists in the Catholic Church.
Move forward several months and I find do myself attending Catholic Charismatic meetings. I experience the Baptism of the Spirit and begin to sing in a voice not my own. My own voice is naturally flat. Scripture says we do not always know how to pray. When I am at home alone, I allow the gift, which is the Holy Spirit, to pray for and through me. It has helped me to discern at times the course to take between two different actions. It is a prayer with which Satan cannot interfere and so it removes all distractions. In large meetings, such as a Charismatic Mass, it is the Holy Spirit praying through his people who have opened their hearts to Him.
Sometimes a single voice will rise above the rest. Sometimes that voice has been my own. In this case, interpretation is needed. That interpretation comes from another person in the group with the gift of interpretation. It is at this point that the gift edifies the community and not merely the individual. This gift cannot be faked.
I like the story of a Carmelite nun who did not know why she should ask for the gift. She already spent hours in contemplation and had a close relationship with the Lord. Her prayer, “I do not know why I need this gift, but if it is from you, God, why should I refuse.” What before took hours to achieve was now achieved in a matter of minutes.