Speaking In Tongues

[rlg94086]

This was exactly what I thought the first time I heard it, at a Pentecostal holiness church in Chicago.
The men and women went into separate closet like rooms to pray in tongues and made a loud noise. After a while they all gathered in the main sanctuary. A young boy was baptized while in the state of hysteria that I saw. My question was “where is the consent that comes from reason?”
What I did not know is that these pentecostal denominations resulted from individuals experiencing the gifts being excommunicated from fundamental denominations who did not accept the experience as valid. They also come from the large revivals of the 19th and 20th centuries. They lack the roots provided to the Charismatic Renewal that exists in the Catholic Church.
Move forward several months and I find do myself attending Catholic Charismatic meetings. I experience the Baptism of the Spirit and begin to sing in a voice not my own. My own voice is naturally flat. Scripture says we do not always know how to pray. When I am at home alone, I allow the gift, which is the Holy Spirit, to pray for and through me. It has helped me to discern at times the course to take between two different actions. It is a prayer with which Satan cannot interfere and so it removes all distractions. In large meetings, such as a Charismatic Mass, it is the Holy Spirit praying through his people who have opened their hearts to Him.
Sometimes a single voice will rise above the rest. Sometimes that voice has been my own. In this case, interpretation is needed. That interpretation comes from another person in the group with the gift of interpretation. It is at this point that the gift edifies the community and not merely the individual. This gift cannot be faked.
I like the story of a Carmelite nun who did not know why she should ask for the gift. She already spent hours in contemplation and had a close relationship with the Lord. Her prayer, “I do not know why I need this gift, but if it is from you, God, why should I refuse.” What before took hours to achieve was now achieved in a matter of minutes.

 

[guanophore]

If it isn’t official teaching of the Church, then I wouldn’t expect it to be commonly taught. That is why I am asking.

I think it is important to distinguish between common present day curricula used in catechism, and the official teaching of the Church. There are a vast array of church doctrines not covered in catechism classes. When I speak of what is commonly taught about the spiritual gifts, I am speaking of the materials used in the United States in confirmation classes. The fact that the gifts in Corinthians are not usually included does not mean

What I have learned on this thread is that…

1. …most agree that the gifts St. Paul mentioned are real.
2. …the idea of “baptism of the Holy Spirit” comes from the Pentecostal Church, and has been descibed as something I must do after Confirmation to receive the gifts. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2625630&postcount=87

This terminology is found in the New Testament. It has not been popularized in America prior to the Pentecostal movement, but it is a Catholic experience, written about by and for Catholics.

1. “…baptism of the Holy Spirit” is not officially taught or defined by the Church.

Same concept, different terminology.

This being the case, I find it difficult to determine if I should be involved in the Charismatic Renewal. If I had something a little more official from the Church describing the way a charismatic prayer service should be conducted and the practice of “baptism of the Holy Spirit,” then I would be more predisposed to check it out.

I don’t think that people should run after such things. If you are not drawn to it, then you probably have no need for it. Such spiritual practices do not commend themselves to everyone. It is certainly not required for a full Catholic life.

On the other hand, fear can prevent us from many rich experiences.

 

[guanophore]

From Colin B. Donovan, STL (Vice President of Theology at EWTN):

"the Church teaches that Faith, Hope and Charity are necessary for salvation but the charismata are not. St. Paul’s experience at Corinth demonstrated rather early in the Church how susceptible these charisms are to exaggeration. In another context, he would even warn the Corinthians that the devil can appear as an angel of light (1 Cor 11:14). Similarly, both St. Peter and St. John (1 Pet 5:8-9; 1 John 4:1) warn us of this danger.

St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologiae [ST II-II q172 a2] tells us that unless a charism requires the exercise of divine power the Holy Spirit accomplishes it through the mediation of the holy angels. When they are within the power of the angelic nature, they are also capable of demonic imitation. It is difficult to explain the “charismatic power of speech” of a Hitler, for instance, on purely natural grounds. It is for these reasons that most spiritual writers, especially the mystical doctor St. John of the Cross, warn us not to seek such extraordinary phenomenon. As noted earlier, Vatican II made this warning part of its teaching on the charismatic gifts."

No one is encouraging the seeking of phenomena. One seeks the Giver, and trusts that, as He has said, the father is pleased to give us the HS. Yes, discernment is needed, but also trust that God has much more, and better for us than we can ever think, or imagine.

 

[Yerusalyim]

The Charismatic movement is a valid expression of Catholicism, and speaking in tongues is a real charism of the Holy Spirit. There are a lot of fakes out there too.

 

[po18guy]

I agree that speaking in tongues makes sense for the Apostles to spread the Gospel. Modern day tongue speaking sounds like gibberish and no one even understands it. What’s the point of speaking in toungues that no one can even comprehend?

I honestly think they’re all faking it, sounds cynical but I think that’s what it is. If they don’t speak in tongues others will wonder why they don’t and won’t consider them saved. So they have to fake it en masse…

What if God intended a powerful charism for you from all eternity, but your heart said “No”? Before you dismiss the gifts, please read 1 Corinthians 13. The church identifies SEVEN gifts of the Holy Spirit. Each is given according to God’s will. Test it and retain what is good.

Some charismatic occurrences do appear questionable, but that is to us outsiders. I did not receive the gift of tongues, and I am fine with that. God graciously granted me such an increase in faith, that those around me have noticed the transformation. Do not be afraid. Fight cynicism, for it is doubt, and comes from the evil one. It is one of my battles.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Philthy]

The Charismatic movement is a valid expression of Catholicism, and speaking in tongues is a real charism of the Holy Spirit. There are a lot of fakes out there too.

Amen.

 

[guanophore]

Hi, I was just wondering about the following.
At Pentacost, all of the listeners HEARD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE AND UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE… Currently, everyone who says they are speaking in tongues has the listeners hearing “gibberish”. Can you explain this to me please?

imagesofheaven.com/

1 Cor 12:10-11
to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. "

1 Cor 12:28
speakers in various kinds of tongues."

What happened at Pentecost was a specific manifestation of tongues that was for the promotion of the gospel message. There are many varieties of tongues, and some are just for worship, and not meant to be interpreted. Their purpose is to increase the strength of the individual, and not to evangelize.

1 Cor 14:1-2
2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit."

1 Cor 14:3-4
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Clearly this self edification is another variety than the one about which Paul writes to encourage order in the church, or the one used at Pentecost.

The prayer language is not given for unbelievers, but for the believer.

1 Cor 14:21-22
22 Thus, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,