Special request from US Bishops!

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No. The average age of Catholic sisters in the US is 76. Most of them are no longer involved in the running of these institutions.
76? Some seventy-year olds are in better shape than some of the twenty-year olds I see.
Not so. If you actually take the time to read this article, you will see that those days are over. catholic.org/health/story.php?id=42512
I am not sure what you think this article proves. It does not demonstrate that the members of the religious communities are not active in the hospitals that they founded. What point were you trying to make with that article?
Then they will not mind paying the fines and falling into line with the Church. You just watch how many do in the coming months. Search Gonzaga in this forum for a preview of coming attractions.
This is America - you know, the land of the free. Why would a Catholic hospital have to pay a fine in the first place? That is cruel and unusual.
 
76? Some seventy-year olds are in better shape than some of the twenty-year olds I see.
Did you even read the articles or do you persist in believing that the sisters you remember as a child have not aged? The AVERAGE age is 76. More than 90% of these religious not only don’t work there any more, they never set foot in these institutions. They can’t. This is a thing of the past that you remember.
I am not sure what you think this article proves. It does not demonstrate that the members of the religious communities are not active in the hospitals that they founded. What point were you trying to make with that article?
Did you even read either of them, which are quite explicit on what is really going on? I mean, I can quote them to you, but my having to do so would just be more evidence that you’re not reading them.
This is America - you know, the land of the free. Why would a Catholic hospital have to pay a fine in the first place? That is cruel and unusual.
You’re writing what you want to say, which is fine. But that doesn’t make it conform to the actual facts of the situation. It doesn’t.
 
Take a guess. It’s pretty obvious.

HINT: usccb.org/news/2012/12-212.cfm
Oh, homosexual “marriage”.

Yes, the Demon is going to try to force the Catholic Church to accept that abomination. He will try but will not be successful, as the gates of hell have no power over the Church. He may end up destroying the Country in the process, but the Catholic Church will survive, not without more potential suffering for the Faithful.
 
Oh, homosexual “marriage”.

Yes, the Demon is going to try to force the Catholic Church to accept that abomination. He will try but will not be successful, as the gates of hell have no power over the Church. He may end up destroying the Country in the process, but the Catholic Church will survive, not without more potential suffering for the Faithful.
Well, now that you’ve uttered the requisite 50-mile-high invective about that, look at the details. I don’t want to discuss them here because it would be off-topic in this thread, and I try to stay out of this one because it gripes me to see the Church have this problem. We are so over-leveraged on this, we’re going to get trounced. But you watch exactly what happens next–sometime in the next 5 years or so. It’s going to be uuuuugly.
 
Did you even read the articles or do you persist in believing that the sisters you remember as a child have not aged? The AVERAGE age is 76. More than 90% of these religious not only don’t work there any more, they never set foot in these institutions. They can’t. This is a thing of the past that you remember
No, I can assure, I have seen it with my own eyes! Yes, it is true! I have seen the Sisters of Charity, less than one day ago, engaged in the day to day operation of a Catholic Hospital.

But we are wandering.

I am still waiting for you to answer a simple question: how are Catholics “imposing their will” on others “against their will”? Tick Tock…
 
Well, now that you’ve uttered the requisite spiel about that, look at the details. I don’t want to discuss them here because it would be off-topic in this thread, and I try to stay out of this one because it gripes me to see the Church have this problem. We are so over-leveraged on this, we’re going to get trounced. But you watch exactly what happens next–sometime in the next 5 years or so. It’s going to be uuuuugly.
Off the topic? Yet you were the one who brought it up in the first place. LOL!
 
No, I can assure, I have seen it with my own eyes! Yes, it is true! I have seen the Sisters of Charity, less than one day ago, engaged in the day to day operation of a Catholic Hospital.
Exactly what percentage of women religious are “Sisters of Charity?” Do you think all the women religious in the US are “Sisters of Charity?” :rolleyes:
But we are wandering. I am still waiting for you to answer a simple question: how are Catholics “imposing their will” on others “against their will”? Tick Tock…
We are pontificating to people who work for us on their morals while behaving exactly the same way they do. This has consequences.

My point isn’t that we don’t have moral laws that we should be obeying, no. My point is that if you yap about those moral laws all the time, then if you not only don’t follow them yourself but carry on with other people about them, this has consequences. You are seeing those consequences now.
 
Yes, forcing Catholics into these dilemmas is very ugly.
We stepped into these dilemmas of our own free will, or rather, I should say the decision makers in the Church in the US did. The sound you hear is the other shoe dropping.
 
We are pontificating to people who work for us on their morals while behaving exactly the same way they do. This has consequences.

My point isn’t that we don’t have moral laws that we should be obeying, no. My point is that if you yap about those moral laws all the time, then if you not only don’t follow them yourself but carry on with other people about them, this has consequences. You are seeing those consequences now.
Now I am even more confused.

You asserted in a previous post that Catholics are “imposing their will” on others “against their will”. I asked you to give concrete examples of this, yet you now divert the discussion by telling me that there are sinful Catholics out there. Thank you, but I already knew that.

And now you seem to be asserting that these sinful Catholics are responsible for the “consequence” that is the U.S. Government’s decision (via the HHS mandate) to FORCE Catholics into the dilemma of either violating their consciences or paying heavy fines/closing down operations.

The only one responsible for the decision to FORCE Catholics to violate their consciences is the U.S. Government. Not only is the HHS Mandate anti-Catholic, it is also anti-American in the most fundamental way. It is an attack on ALL Americans, not just Catholics.
 
We stepped into these dilemmas of our own free will, or rather, I should say the decision makers in the Church in the US did. The sound you hear is the other shoe dropping.
Wow. So, how is the Catholic Church in the U.S. responsible for the HHS mandate?
 
Well, now that you’ve uttered the requisite 50-mile-high invective about that, look at the details…
Whoaaaa! Hold, on there!

What part of my statement was “50-mile high invective”? You are familiar with the definition of invective, aren’t you?
 
Whoaaaa! Hold, on there!

What part of my statement was “50-mile high invective”? You are familiar with the definition of invective, aren’t you?
Yup. I know what invective is. And I’m very familiar with it in the Catholic context. It’s a very common feature of Catholic existence.
 
Wow. So, how is the Catholic Church in the U.S. responsible for the HHS mandate?
Oh, do I need to make a list of the “Catholics” in this administration who brought us the HHS mandate? Do I need to tell you the whole story of how contraception became as Catholic as holy cards in this country? And nothing was done. Nothing.
 
Kathleen Sibelius = Catholic Church? Nope, not seeing it.
Look it up, she’s Catholic. This is just the tip of the iceberg though.

The fact is that Catholics behave pretty much just like non-Catholics when it comes to all this stuff. Catechesis is ineffective or simply absent.
 
Look it up, she’s Catholic. This is just the tip of the iceberg though.

The fact is that Catholics behave pretty much just like non-Catholics when it comes to all this stuff. Catechesis is ineffective or simply absent.
Kathleen Sibelius (Catholic) = Catholic Church? Still not seeing it.
 
So, where is this “invective” that you assert is present in my post. I can’t find it. Perhaps you could direct me to a word or phrase that you think is invective?
You just want to argue, and I’m past it. Watch and see what happens and doesn’t happen during the next year. My predictions:
  1. Barring a negotiations miracle, the HHS mandate will go into effect as planned. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am. Diocesan and parish charities will close, or be managed to minimize the penalties paid. This means that many employees will be cut back to part-time work and some things will be given to volunteers. Some schools will close and some will be cut back. Charities serving the general public will be closed.
  2. Most large “Catholic” universities & hospitals won’t close. Some of them will get called on their obedience to Obamacare and disaffiliate from the Church, some won’t. And some will get away with it. This will be noticed and used against us in the next round.
When Cardinal George said about the Chicago Archdiocesan Directory for 2014, that the pages for Catholic hospitals would be blank because of the HHS mandate, to his credit, I believe him. But it won’t be blank mostly because those hospitals don’t exist, for the most part. IT will mostly be because they are no longer affiliated with the archdiocese. They will have been disaffiliated or sold.
 
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