Split from "A question for some Protestants who try to proselytize Catholics": Are Catholic priests "Forbidden to Marry?"

[Dokimas]

I call you my brother in Christ. Nothing more, and, certainly, nothing less.

I’m glad you are speaking to your brother again.

 

[PRmerger]

Wasn’t it you that mentioned Acts 16:31? I’d say that’s a good place to start. But do we really want to continue this discussion? We aren’t getting anywhere, IMO, unless you agree with Acts 16:31

I do want to continue.

So how do you know that Acts 16:31 is an essential, and not, say Malachi 1:11? Where does the Bible say Acts 16:31 is essential and Malachi 1:11 is not?

 

[PRmerger]

PRmerger;6764432:

Yes. If by “others” you mean those who hold to the teaching of the Apostles.

So there is a list from the Bible that the apostles wrote about?

Why would there have to be a list “from the Bible” that the Apostles wrote about? Where does the Bible say that’s a requirement?

 

[Dokimas]

Yes.

And I’m sure that those OSAS Christians who *don’t *profess, “All you need to be saved is to call on Jesus’ name, and you can sin all you want” use this as an excuse:

“Well, he was never really saved in the first place”. :banghead:

Seems reasonable to me that that’s a possibility. Don’t bang your head. We don’t bang our heads when we are told by catholics we lack even though we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

Why would there have to be a list “from the Bible” that the Apostles wrote about? Where does the Bible say that’s a requirement?

I gathered that from your ‘yes’ to my question.

I’m doing what I said I didn’t want to do… continue this discussion that’s getting no where. Not edifying.

 

[Dokimas]

I do want to continue.

So how do you know that Acts 16:31 is an essential, and not, say Malachi 1:11? Where does the Bible say Acts 16:31 is essential and Malachi 1:11 is not?

Where’d this question come from?

Is Hezekia 4:22 essential?

 

[PRmerger]

Seems reasonable to me that that’s a possibility. Don’t bang your head. We don’t bang our heads when we are told by catholics we lack even though we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

That seems like a :whacky: paradigm to me: Christians can be assured of their salvation, but someone can think he’s saved when he’s not really saved.

Now, if you believed in OSAS I might not tell you to your face (albeit “virtually” on the CAFs) that I think your belief is whacky…but since you’re not a proponent of this paradigm I feel no disrespect in saying this.

(Apologies to the OSAS Lurkers. If you are offended by my calling your belief whacky, please join the discussion and we can engage each other “face to face”)

 

[PRmerger]

I gathered that from your ‘yes’ to my question.

I’m doing what I said I didn’t want to do… continue this discussion that’s getting no where. Not edifying.

Again, then, I will repeat: As a Bible-only Christian you cannot say what’s an essential doctrine to salvation, because the Bible does not tell us.

You can’t know, from the Bible alone, if Acts 16 is essential but Malachi 1:11 and Hezeziah 4:22 aren’t.

 

[wmscott]

There is no verse I’m aware of that priest can not marry. I think the Bible teaches it would be better for them not to be married but it is NOT a prerequisit for priesthood. The CC seems to teach in practice that it is a prerequisit. Sure the CC has one or more exceptions.

For the sake of argument let’s say that there is no verse in the Bible that says a Priest cannot marry. Also let’s say that your interpretation is correct and in context, that the Bible teaches it would be better for them not to be married but it is NOT a prerequisite for Priesthood. So blessed what, why do you even care? As has been explained many times it is a **DISCIPLINE **and standard set by the Catholic Church (Latin Rite) for its Priests. A man choosing to become a Priest is fully aware of the requirement to be celibate way before entering the seminary and religious life. It is **HIS **choice and is between him and God. Not you, me, or anyone else. Tell me what is so bad by a Priest being celibate? Show me where it says in the Bible that it is a bad thing that a Priest be celibate. I am sure this has been asked before so I apologize if it has been answered before, but are there any requirements or prerequisites to becoming a pastor or minister in the non-Catholic denominations or even your denomination that are not specifically verbatim mentioned in a verse from the Bible somewhere? The one I can think of is that in some or most denominations they hold a degree in divinity from a college. Where is that in the Bible? So again, why do you even care, or is this your way of poking at the Catholic Church to further bolster your argument that the Catholic Church is wrong in its practices and disciplines.

 

[Nicea325]

For the sake of argument let’s say that there is no verse in the Bible that says a Priest cannot marry. Also let’s say that your interpretation is correct and in context, that the Bible teaches it would be better for them not to be married but it is NOT a prerequisite for Priesthood. So blessed what, why do you even care? As has been explained many times it is a **DISCIPLINE **and standard set by the Catholic Church (Latin Rite) for its Priests. A man choosing to become a Priest is fully aware of the requirement to be celibate way before entering the seminary and religious life. It is **HIS **choice and is between him and God. Not you, me, or anyone else. Tell me what is so bad by a Priest being celibate? Show me where it says in the Bible that it is a bad thing that a Priest be celibate. I am sure this has been asked before so I apologize if it has been answered before, but are there any requirements or prerequisites to becoming a pastor or minister in the non-Catholic denominations or even your denomination that are not specifically verbatim mentioned in a verse from the Bible somewhere? The one I can think of is that in some or most denominations they hold a degree in divinity from a college. Where is that in the Bible? So again, why do you even care, or is this your way of poking at the Catholic Church to further bolster your argument that the Catholic Church is wrong in its practices and disciplines.

Exactly! Why do non-Catholics even care? Jesus was celibate,so was Paul and I believe John. What is the big issue? Someone chooses to be celibate that his or her chose and I SERIOUSLY DOUBT God is offended by such a choice. Is God offended if one remains single?

 

[Dokimas]

For the sake of argument let’s say that there is no verse in the Bible that says a Priest cannot marry. Also let’s say that your interpretation is correct and in context, that the Bible teaches it would be better for them not to be married but it is NOT a prerequisite for Priesthood. So blessed what, why do you even care? As has been explained many times it is a **DISCIPLINE **and standard set by the Catholic Church (Latin Rite) for its Priests. A man choosing to become a Priest is fully aware of the requirement to be celibate way before entering the seminary and religious life. It is **HIS **choice and is between him and God. Not you, me, or anyone else. Tell me what is so bad by a Priest being celibate? Show me where it says in the Bible that it is a bad thing that a Priest be celibate. I am sure this has been asked before so I apologize if it has been answered before, but are there any requirements or prerequisites to becoming a pastor or minister in the non-Catholic denominations or even your denomination that are not specifically verbatim mentioned in a verse from the Bible somewhere? The one I can think of is that in some or most denominations they hold a degree in divinity from a college. Where is that in the Bible? So again, why do you even care, or is this your way of poking at the Catholic Church to further bolster your argument that the Catholic Church is wrong in its practices and disciplines.

I don’t care but the CC should care. If Jesus doesn’t force the discipline, Paul and the other NT writers don’t force the discipline, why does or should the CC?

I’ve said the Bible says that celebacy could be a blessing. Paul says for those who can’t be celebate, get married so you won’t sin. Celebacy is more than just physical. It is mental as well if we take Jesus at His word when He said adultery isn’t just physical, but mental (one can commit adultery in the mind).

 

[Dokimas]

Exactly! Why do non-Catholics even care? Jesus was celibate,so was Paul and I believe John. What is the big issue? Someone chooses to be celibate that his or her chose and I SERIOUSLY DOUBT God is offended by such a choice. Is God offended if one remains single?

Choosing to be celebate is NOT a big deal. Forcing one to be celebate is, or should be because the Bible teaches against forcing celebacy (not getting married).

 

[PRmerger]

Choosing to be celebate is NOT a big deal. Forcing one to be celebate is, or should be because the Bible teaches against forcing celebacy (not getting married).

Well then, Dokimas, you can sleep easier tonight because, as we’ve shown you, no one in the Catholic Church is forcing celibacy on anybody.

And if you persist in saying that, despite being shown that NO MAN IS FORCED TO CELIBACY, then you have proven that your heart is unteachable. :sad_yes:

 

[Dokimas]

Well then, Dokimas, you can sleep easier tonight because, as we’ve shown you, no one in the Catholic Church is forcing celibacy on anybody.

And if you persist in saying that, despite being shown that NO MAN IS FORCED TO CELIBACY, then you have proven that your heart is unteachable. :sad_yes:

If all priest may get married AND stay a priest, then you are correct.

If all bishops may get married AND stay a bishop, then you are correct.

If all cardinals may get married AND stay a cardinal, then you are correct.

If the pope may get married AND stay a pope, then you are correct.

If a seminary student studying for the priesthood may get married and become a priest, then you are correct.

If not, you are incorrect.

I’ll sleep easy either way.

My guess you’ve thought I wasn’t teachable for some time now.

 

[Nicea325]

Choosing to be celebate is NOT a big deal. Forcing one to be celebate is, or should be because the Bible teaches against forcing celebacy (not getting married).

Forced? Does the RCC also FORCE people to MARRY? Does the Bible also FORCE marriage on people? Is it a FORCED action or a choice by one?

As stated,you simply have an issue with it and frankly what do you care? You’re not even Catholic so how is that chose by others affecting your life?

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRmerger
Well then, Dokimas, you can sleep easier tonight because, as we’ve shown you, no one in the Catholic Church is forcing celibacy on anybody.

And if you persist in saying that, despite being shown that NO MAN IS FORCED TO CELIBACY, then you have proven that your heart is unteachable.

If all priest may get married AND stay a priest, then you are correct.

And some priests are married in the Eastern Rites and Latin Rites. BTW: One remains a priest forever,whether single or married.

If all bishops may get married AND stay a bishop, then you are correct.

So the other option is to force marriage on every man in ministry?

If all cardinals may get married AND stay a cardinal, then you are correct.

So every man in every ministry must be FORCED into marriage as the ONLY option.

If the pope may get married AND stay a pope, then you are correct.

Again,according to you every man must be married or else he is being FORCED into celibacy. Your argument is silly and absurd.

If a seminary student studying for the priesthood may get married and become a priest, then you are correct

.

Were they also FORCED into the seminary? By who? Mom? Dad? Uncle? The priest after Mass with the gun pointed at the young man’s head? I do not recall anyone FORCING me to serve in the U.S. Air Force reagardless of being told the type of life I would have to follow and live. I CHOSE to accept it and abide by it and LIVE IT! My choice and I lived with it and with honor!

If not, you are incorrect.

I’ll sleep easy either way.

My guess you’ve thought I wasn’t teachable for some time now.

Come back for another lesson, you are still not grasping the lesson being taught.

 

[guanophore]

Thanks for your opinion.

It is not an opinion Doki. You incorrectly forwarded a statement about Catholic Teaching, and I am correcting it. Whether my personal opinion agrees with it or not, this is what the Church teaches.

I have no opinion.

Actually, you do. You have been quite clear in your opinion that the Teachings of the Church are not “all correct”.

That doesn’t mean the teaching is alway correct.

I rest my case.

Does He use people?

Indeed, as you have pointed out - donkeys too.

But you don’t care what others teach. So what’s you point?

You are starting to sound hurt and hostile again Doki. If I did not care what others taught, I assure you I would not be on CAF and I would CERTAINLY NOT frequent the non-Catholic forum.

Kind of picky about terms aren’t you?

Not necessarily. When it comes to gross heresies, yes. The Reformers attempted to assign a role to Scripture that it was never intended to play. Jesus assigned teachers to teach, and scripture to be profitable in equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. Many modern day American Evangelicals just prefer to skip the appointed teacher, and believe they are “all taught by God” and that the “HS leads them into all truth” through their own personal understanding of the scriptures.

A Christian has the faith you speak of whether or not they go to a CC or a non-catholic church. We agree the Holy Spirit does not lead people away from people of faith. He gathers them, some in one church and some in another. He tries to draw others out of non-Christian churches.

And since He only founded ONE CHURCH and wants perfect unity, then the divisions that presently exist are not His will.

If, as you say, the Bible can’t teach, teaching is an activity of a person, how can you say the church teaches.

The Church is composed of persons who are given the role of teaching. She has Jesus at her Head, who teaches us through the HS, who is the Soul of the Church. These persons teach the magesterium, a group of teachers in the apostolic succession, to whom Jesus gave the Seat of Moses.

Seems to say the CC is without sin you separate the CC from people, thus how can the CC teach?

The Church is pure because of her divine elements. The fallible people who are attached to her are not. The doctrine is without error. The people who attempt to promulgate and practice it may be in error.

Nope. I’m disappointed you felt you had to question me on this!!!

Me too.

However, you and I aren’t God so we don’t always know what is disobedience verses what is the leading of the Holy Spirit. Much is clear; other things are between God and the person.

We are not God, but we can know because of what God has revealed to the Church. His revelation is infallible,a nd He preserves it infallibly. He promised not to leave us orphans, and He has not. He promised to lead us into all Truth, and He has.

Looks like you’re back accusing me of evangelizing.

I just call 'em as I see 'em.

So which is it: I’m very catholic (2xs you told me this) or am I here to help you with wrong teachings (I think you are back to the prostelizing accusation)?

Some of your beliefs have been retained through the doctrinal abberations of the Reformation. These are Catholic.

Do you think that proselytizing cannot be conducted by persons of catholic faith?

You believe you are right. This is the main reason you have for sharing your faith, and defending it. If you did not believe you had the Truth, you would not be doing it. You sure would not be here at CAF!

 

[Dokimas]

It is not an opinion Doki. You incorrectly forwarded a statement about Catholic Teaching, and I am correcting it. Whether my personal opinion agrees with it or not, this is what the Church teaches.

Actually, you do. You have been quite clear in your opinion that the Teachings of the Church are not “all correct”.

I rest my case.

Indeed, as you have pointed out - donkeys too.

You are starting to sound hurt and hostile again Doki. If I did not care what others taught, I assure you I would not be on CAF and I would CERTAINLY NOT frequent the non-Catholic forum.

Not necessarily. When it comes to gross heresies, yes. The Reformers attempted to assign a role to Scripture that it was never intended to play. Jesus assigned teachers to teach, and scripture to be profitable in equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. Many modern day American Evangelicals just prefer to skip the appointed teacher, and believe they are “all taught by God” and that the “HS leads them into all truth” through their own personal understanding of the scriptures.

And since He only founded ONE CHURCH and wants perfect unity, then the divisions that presently exist are not His will.

The Church is composed of persons who are given the role of teaching. She has Jesus at her Head, who teaches us through the HS, who is the Soul of the Church. These persons teach the magesterium, a group of teachers in the apostolic succession, to whom Jesus gave the Seat of Moses.

The Church is pure because of her divine elements. The fallible people who are attached to her are not. The doctrine is without error. The people who attempt to promulgate and practice it may be in error.

Me too.

We are not God, but we can know because of what God has revealed to the Church. His revelation is infallible,a nd He preserves it infallibly. He promised not to leave us orphans, and He has not. He promised to lead us into all Truth, and He has.

I just call 'em as I see 'em.

Some of your beliefs have been retained through the doctrinal abberations of the Reformation. These are Catholic.

Do you think that proselytizing cannot be conducted by persons of catholic faith?

You believe you are right. This is the main reason you have for sharing your faith, and defending it. If you did not believe you had the Truth, you would not be doing it. You sure would not be here at CAF!

 

[wmscott]

I don’t care but the CC should care. If Jesus doesn’t force the discipline, Paul and the other NT writers don’t force the discipline, why does or should the CC?

I’ve said the Bible says that celebacy could be a blessing. Paul says for those who can’t be celebate, get married so you won’t sin. Celebacy is more than just physical. It is mental as well if we take Jesus at His word when He said adultery isn’t just physical, but mental (one can commit adultery in the mind).

Here is where you don’t get it. It is not forced, it is a requirement or discipline that is freely chosen by the would be priest. Either he can accept it or freely choose to opt out. Where is the forcing. You did not answer my questions, are there any requirements or prerequisites to becoming a pastor or minister in the non-Catholic denominations or even your denomination that are not specifically verbatim mentioned in a verse from the Bible somewhere? The one I cited was that in some or most denominations require that they hold a degree in divinity from a college. Where is that in the Bible?

 

[Dokimas]

Here is where you don’t get it. It is not forced, it is a requirement or discipline that is freely chosen by the would be priest. Either he can accept it or freely choose to opt out. Where is the forcing. You did not answer my questions, are there any requirements or prerequisites to becoming a pastor or minister in the non-Catholic denominations or even your denomination that are not specifically verbatim mentioned in a verse from the Bible somewhere? The one I cited was that in some or most denominations require that they hold a degree in divinity from a college. Where is that in the Bible?

Okay, okay, okay.

Let’s see if I get it this time…

“I don’t care but the CC should care. If Jesus doesn’t require the discipline, Paul and the other NT writers don’t require the discipline, why does or should the CC?”

There are requirements found in Paul’s writings to Timothy and Titus.

If you want to compare wrong CC practices with wrong protestant practices, have at it.