Split: If you are addicted, is it a sin?

[CopticChristian]

Peel receives funding from:

The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS), and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants.[12]

Sourse: wikipedia

Ringil,

If you look up the Wikipedia source, then go to the link provided (12) ^ Exploring Psychological Benefits Associated with Moderate Alcohol Use: A Necessary Corrective to Assessments of Drinking Outcomes?

It takes you here…

peele.net/lib/exploring.html

Prepublication version of article appearing in Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60: 221-247, 2000
© Copyright 2000 Stanton Peele. All rights reserved.

Exploring Psychological Benefits Associated with Moderate Alcohol Use: A Necessary Corrective to Assessments of Drinking Outcomes?

at the end of the article, Stanton discloses, honestly, funding…

Acknowledgments
Material in this paper has been presented at the conference, “Permission for Pleasure,” in New York, NY, June 28-July 1, 1998 and the 25th annual meeting of the Kettil Bruun Society in Montreal, June 1-4, 1999. **The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States, Inc. (DISCUS) and the Wine Institute provided unrestricted grants that were used to fund this work. **The views and opinions reflected in this article are those of its authors, and do not necessarily reflect those of the funders or their member companies. Alan Lang, James Orcutt, Eric Single, Geoff Lowe, and the librarians at the Rutgers Center of Alcohol Studies made valuable contributions to this paper.

I don’t think I will bother Stanton with this nonsense. What is it you believe that it is saying that he used a grant?

 

[ringil]

The tobacco industry issues millions of dollars in grants to fund dubious research.

Follow the money.

 

[CopticChristian]

The tobacco industry issues millions of dollars in grants to fund dubious research.

Follow the money.

Ringil,

So are you saying that Stanton Peele, PhD, has written on helping addiction, has written an article on moderate drinking is helping promote drinking?

Tobacco is a poison that kills.

No physician or Psychologist I know espouses Cocaine, Heroin, Crack in small amounts as healthy. Do you know of any? Is there something evil, wrong, sinful about alcohol in small amounts?

Alcohol is a beverage that in moderation has health benefits. Any physician knows that. There is a wealth of research on the positive effects of moderate alcohol intake in the French and Italian population. Are you part of the Protestant Temperance Movement?

I personally choose not to drink in spite of the health benefits because it disturbs my sleep, makes me hungry and tired and prevents me from running long distances, swimming, and keeping my mind clear. My health is just fine and I suppose when I become more sedentary may choose to drink in moderation however only time will tell.

addiction is a sin

 

[clem456]

From the Stanton Peele “Addiction Website”

The Benefits of Alcohol

Journal Articles and Book Chapters
•Peele, S. (1993), The conflict between public health goals and the temperance mentality. American Journal of Public Health, 83, 805-810.
•Peele, S. & A. Brodsky (1996), The antidote to alcohol abuse: Sensible drinking messages. In Wine in Context: Nutrition, Physiology, Policy, Davis, CA: American Society for Enology and Viticulture, pp. 66-70.
•Peele, S. (1999), Introduction. In S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia, PA: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 1-7.
•Peele, S. (1999), Promoting positive drinking: Alcohol, necessary evil or positive good? In: S. Peele & M. Grant (Eds.), Alcohol and pleasure: A health perspective, Philadelphia: Brunner/Mazel, pp. 375-389.
•Peele, S., & A. Brodsky (2000), Exploring psychological benefits associated with moderate alcohol use: A necessary corrective to assessments of drinking outcomes? Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60, 221-247.

Magazine Articles
•Peele, S. (1996), Should physicians recommend alcohol to their patients? Priorities, 8(1), 24-29.
•Peele, S. (1999, October), Bottle battle: The latest fight over wine labels is part of the ongoing struggle between wets and drys. Reason, pp. 52-54.

Newspaper Articles
•Peele, S. (1998, July), Alcoholism and the elderly — The new epidemic? The Star Ledger (Newark), July 29, p. A19.
•Peele, S. (2010), Alcohol — the good side. Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2010, A17.
•Peele, S. (2011), A Toast to Your Health. Warning: Alcohol may increase your life expectancy and reduce dementia. Wall Street Journal, February 2, 2011.

Letters to the Editor
•Peele, S. (2001), American Heart Association advisory, “Wine and Your Heart,” is not science-based. Circulation, 104, e73.

Stanton’s Blog
•We Don’t Believe Alcohol’s Good For You! August 19, 2010.
•The Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol? August 16, 2010.

I would respectfully request that you do not post any more research or opinions on addiction. You’re not doing anyone any favors here, to say the least.
Thanks

 

[CopticChristian]

From the Stanton Peele “Addiction Website”

I would respectfully request that you do not post any more research or opinions on addiction. You’re not doing anyone any favors here, to say the least.
Thanks

Clem,

Thank you for your opinion. Private messages and emails say otherwise.

Addiction is a sin

 

[Christmastwin]

Clem,

Thank you for your opinion. Private messages and emails say otherwise.

Addiction is a sin

Plural? Really?

 

[clem456]

Clem,

Thank you for your opinion. Private messages and emails say otherwise.

Addiction is a sin

Fact: The “expert” you cling to is compromised to the point of quackery.

Fact: The “expert” you cling to does not even agree with your position on the sinfullness of addiction!!
How much of his writing have you actually read? His position is directly opposed to the Christian position (this is a Catholic forum?), and you have the hubris to paint others on this thread as less than faithful “protestants”.

You don’t treat addicts, you haven’t been one, your friend “Stanton” is a hack for the liquor companies, and you don’t even competently understand his point of view. You have no credibility, and continue to throw misinformation out that can lead addicts astray. Shame on you.

We’re waiting for your private emailers and messengers to weigh in with something substantial to help you clarify your position. It would be a welcome discussion to have someone who actually understands the man’s position, however far afield it may be.

 

[CopticChristian]

Fact: The “expert” you cling to is compromised to the point of quackery.

Fact: The “expert” you cling to does not even agree with your position on the sinfullness of addiction!!
How much of his writing have you actually read? His position is directly opposed to the Christian position (this is a Catholic forum?), and you have the hubris to paint others on this thread as less than faithful “protestants”.

You don’t treat addicts, you haven’t been one, your friend “Stanton” is a hack for the liquor companies, and you don’t even competently understand his point of view. You have no credibility, and continue to throw misinformation out that can lead addicts astray. Shame on you.

We’re waiting for your private emailers and messengers to weigh in with something substantial to help you clarify your position. It would be a welcome discussion to have someone who actually understands the man’s position, however far afield it may be.

Clem,

You prove the point of attack.

Stanton Peele, PhD is jewish and he does not see addiction as sin, I do. I am posting, he is not. He sees addiction as habit.

Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of LIfe says

Recovery and Addiction have replaced Sin and Salvation…I am going to go with Sin and Salvation.

No one needs to treat addicts as they are not diseased unless you accept the disease model. You object to that and you are welcome to object.

I of course disagree with you and you then attack me. Thank you.

All the information is there for you to understand.

AA is a religion…Supreme Court said so.

Reid Hester says AA/12 steps have a miserable success rate. Provide a study that shows different.

Reid Hester says that self help is possible, Stanton Peele, PhD and Reid Hester agree as do I. You dissmiss this as a possibility without fact just fancy.

My wife agrees, all my 5 children and 5 grandchildren agree and colleagues and former people that I know that escaped AA agree. All in the room that agree…lets see…everyone agrees with me.

You disagree…

addiction is a sin…

 

[johnnyjones]

See post #95.

I left AA and stopped drinking, but that’s me.

 

[clem456]

Clem,

You prove the point of attack.

Stanton Peele, PhD is jewish and he does not see addiction as sin, I do. I am posting, he is not. He sees addiction as habit.

Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of LIfe says

Recovery and Addiction have replaced Sin and Salvation…I am going to go with Sin and Salvation.

No one needs to treat addicts as they are not diseased unless you accept the disease model. You object to that and you are welcome to object.

I of course disagree with you and you then attack me. Thank you.

All the information is there for you to understand.

AA is a religion…Supreme Court said so.

Reid Hester says AA/12 steps have a miserable success rate. Provide a study that shows different.

Reid Hester says that self help is possible, Stanton Peele, PhD and Reid Hester agree as do I. You dissmiss this as a possibility without fact just fancy.

My wife agrees, all my 5 children and 5 grandchildren agree and colleagues and former people that I know that escaped AA agree. All in the room that agree…lets see…everyone agrees with me.

You disagree…

addiction is a sin…

Now you’re all twisted into a knot and refuse to get yourself out. Some of your points I agree with and you don’t even realize it, for reasons only you know.

There is a mountain of solid medical, scriptural, spiritual, and first- person- been- there- done- that testimony staring you down my friend.
And you have your liquor company lawyer/shill and 10 invisible family members. (support IS important after all, glad your not going through this alone…or maybe it’s not important in your “paradigm”…
I won’t stoop so low as to insinuate you are a Protestant…I would feel obliged to apologize for that.)

 

[Christmastwin]

Clem,

You prove the point of attack.

Stanton Peele, PhD is jewish and he does not see addiction as sin, I do. I am posting, he is not. He sees addiction as habit.

Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of LIfe says

Recovery and Addiction have replaced Sin and Salvation…I am going to go with Sin and Salvation.

No one needs to treat addicts as they are not diseased unless you accept the disease model. You object to that and you are welcome to object.

I of course disagree with you and you then attack me. Thank you.

All the information is there for you to understand.

AA is a religion…Supreme Court said so.

Reid Hester says AA/12 steps have a miserable success rate. Provide a study that shows different.

Reid Hester says that self help is possible, Stanton Peele, PhD and Reid Hester agree as do I. You dissmiss this as a possibility without fact just fancy.

My wife agrees, all my 5 children and 5 grandchildren agree and colleagues and former people that I know that escaped AA agree. All in the room that agree…lets see…everyone agrees with me.

You disagree…

addiction is a sin…

Why you feel you’re being attacked is beyond me. Seems you have your gloves on and ready to fight. You give one person’s name, Stanton Peele, and why is he the one authority on addiction?

There are many modes of recovery. To each his own. I don’t begrudge people getting sober on their own. All I know is I tried it, I couldn’t do it, and AA works for me. It comes down to love and service… not a religion.

 

[CopticChristian]

Fact: The “expert” you cling to is compromised to the point of quackery.

Fact: The “expert” you cling to does not even agree with your position on the sinfullness of addiction!!
How much of his writing have you actually read? His position is directly opposed to the Christian position (this is a Catholic forum?), and you have the hubris to paint others on this thread as less than faithful “protestants”.

You don’t treat addicts, you haven’t been one, your friend “Stanton” is a hack for the liquor companies, and you don’t even competently understand his point of view. You have no credibility, and continue to throw misinformation out that can lead addicts astray. Shame on you.

We’re waiting for your private emailers and messengers to weigh in with something substantial to help you clarify your position. It would be a welcome discussion to have someone who actually understands the man’s position, however far afield it may be.

Clem,

Your knowledge and insight are invaluable.

Below are two non-12 step rehab centers. Stanton Peele, PhD was associated with St. Gregory and used his Life Process Program until they had a falling out. They believed in his program and have insituted something similar. Stanton took his program with him. Stanton now supports St. Jude. Both of these websites have the same information that I have presented in video and with research that can be read.

stgregoryctr.com/OurProgram.aspx

soberforever.net/jtprogram1.cfm

You can do a search for non-12 step programs and they agree with me and disagree with you…search for non-12 step treatment/rehab

Stanton Peele, Phd, has a website on addiction and his program is now available online…
at a small fee that is user friendly and does not cost the thousands that rehab cost not to mention the brainwashing.

peele.net/treatment/index.php

Here you will find the program and video of Stanton and what people are saying…

thelifeprocessprogram.com/

"A revolutionary approach to the treatment of addictions. This should be of enormous help to people struggling with them. "

Aaron T. Beck, M.D., Professor of psychiatry, University of Pennsylvania; founder of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy; winner of the 2006 Lasker Award.

and

“The availability of Stanton Peele’s Life Process Program is a major improvement for the entire U.S. addiction treatment industry.”

Tom Horvath, Ph.D., ABPP, President of SMART Recovery (the leading non-12-step addiction recovery support group worldwide); past president of American Psychological Association Division on Addictions; a long-time colleague and a board member for Dr. Peele’s treatment program.

So, I am not alone in agreement with Stanton. I have spoken to people that have been through the 12 steps and that have completed the Life Process program and I quote…

“Can you imagine what it was like to go through life believing that you were diseased and what that does to someone…after finishing the Life Process I can live a normal life”…

So you disagree. I asked you to provide any evidence that 12 steps/disease model has a success rate of greater than 10% and no one seems to be able to find one. I looked so I know that your search may frustrate you. Reid Hester pointed out that it does not work. Now all you have to do is prove it to yourself.

In my opinion as a physician, addiction is a habit and not a disease.

In my opinion as a Catholic addiction is sin…and requries salvation

You don’t have to get religous to resolve addiction although I believe you are better off if you do…

Addiction is a sin,…in my opinion…and is consistent with the Chruch document…Jesus Christ The Bearer of the Water of Life…so my agreement is not solitary…

 

[clem456]

See post #95.

I left AA and stopped drinking, but that’s me.

And I never did the SA program directly either. Not to get repetitive, but I stumbled through recovery without an official program, but did the steps unwittingly anyway.
In not one post have I mentioned AA, or recommended it as absolutely necessary. What is important is that addicts are not encouraged to cling to their own willpower. That is the ultimate point.
And it’s a disservice for a poster on a thread about addiction to cite a near- liqour company employee who’s work revolves around encouraging people to drink. I would never do that, I would feel compelled to aplogize to those I misled.

 

[johnnyjones]

And I never did the SA program directly either. Not to get repetitive, but I stumbled through recovery without an official program, but did the steps unwittingly anyway.
In not one post have I mentioned AA, or recommended it as absolutely necessary. What is important is that addicts are not encouraged to cling to their own willpower. That is the ultimate point.
And it’s a disservice for a poster on a thread about addiction to cite a near- liqour company employee who’s work revolves around encouraging people to drink. I would never do that, I would feel compelled to aplogize to those I misled.

I agree. Sinners need help, addicts need help.

 

[TimothyH]

Timothy,

Then the Athiest, Buddhist, Agnostic, and others are out of luck then, correct?

I am pleased you stopped and believe it was God, and if it was, then in God all things are possible.

Addiction is a sin

Well, no one would have described me as a Christian, let alone Catholic when I stopped, so I guess no, that’s not correct.

I wouldn’t put so much faith in absolutes, nor in my own knowledge. Not everything in life is black and white and you don’t know yourself as well as you think.

-Tim-

 

[Christmastwin]

Clem,

Your knowledge and insight are invaluable.

Below are two non-12 step rehab centers. Stanton Peele, PhD was associated with St. Gregory and used his Life Process Program until they had a falling out. They believed in his program and have insituted something similar. Stanton took his program with him. Stanton now supports St. Jude. Both of these websites have the same information that I have presented in video and with research that can be read.

You can do a search for non-12 step programs and they agree with me and disagree with you…search for non-12 step treatment/rehab

Stanton Peele, Phd, has a website on addiction and his program is now available online…
at a small fee that is user friendly and does not cost the thousands that rehab cost not to mention the brainwashing.

peele.net/treatment/index.php

Here you will find the program and video of Stanton and what people are saying…

thelifeprocessprogram.com/

and

So, I am not alone in agreement with Stanton. I have spoken to people that have been through the 12 steps and that have completed the Life Process program and I quote…

“Can you imagine what it was like to go through life believing that you were diseased and what that does to someone…after finishing the Life Process I can live a normal life”…

So you disagree. I asked you to provide any evidence that 12 steps/disease model has a success rate of greater than 10% and no one seems to be able to find one. I looked so I know that your search may frustrate you. Reid Hester pointed out that it does not work. Now all you have to do is prove it to yourself.

In my opinion as a physician, addiction is a habit and not a disease.

In my opinion as a Catholic addiction is sin…and requries salvation

You don’t have to get religous to resolve addiction although I believe you are better off if you do…

Addiction is a sin,…in my opinion…and is consistent with the Chruch document…Jesus Christ The Bearer of the Water of Life…so my agreement is not solitary…

A humble attitude is one that remains teachable. Lord knows I hope I never lose that. Peace Out. Your arrogance is very distressing.

 

[johnnyjones]

Clem,

Your knowledge and insight are invaluable.

Below are two non-12 step rehab centers. Stanton Peele, PhD was associated with St. Gregory and used his Life Process Program until they had a falling out. They believed in his program and have insituted something similar. Stanton took his program with him. Stanton now supports St. Jude. Both of these websites have the same information that I have presented in video and with research that can be read.

You can do a search for non-12 step programs and they agree with me and disagree with you…search for non-12 step treatment/rehab

Stanton Peele, Phd, has a website on addiction and his program is now available online…
at a small fee that is user friendly and does not cost the thousands that rehab cost not to mention the brainwashing.

peele.net/treatment/index.php

Here you will find the program and video of Stanton and what people are saying…

thelifeprocessprogram.com/

and

So, I am not alone in agreement with Stanton. I have spoken to people that have been through the 12 steps and that have completed the Life Process program and I quote…

“Can you imagine what it was like to go through life believing that you were diseased and what that does to someone…after finishing the Life Process I can live a normal life”…

So you disagree. I asked you to provide any evidence that 12 steps/disease model has a success rate of greater than 10% and no one seems to be able to find one. I looked so I know that your search may frustrate you. Reid Hester pointed out that it does not work. Now all you have to do is prove it to yourself.

In my opinion as a physician, addiction is a habit and not a disease.

In my opinion as a Catholic addiction is sin…and requries salvation

You don’t have to get religous to resolve addiction although I believe you are better off if you do…

Addiction is a sin,…in my opinion…and is consistent with the Chruch document…Jesus Christ The Bearer of the Water of Life…so my agreement is not solitary…

If all the people who used to drink alcoholically went back to taking a drink or drug, they would be okay? If addiction is sin, you need God.

 

[CopticChristian]

**A humble attitude is one that remains teachable. **Lord knows I hope I never lose that. Peace Out. Your arrogance is very distressing.

Christ,

This comes right out of the AA/12 steps. A program that requires someone to be teachable and humble…to learn the paradigm. This is the paradigm. Yes. You seem to have it down pat…

Addiction is a sin

 

[bbentrup]

A humble attitude is one that remains teachable. Lord knows I hope I never lose that. Peace Out. Your arrogance is very distressing.

I’ve been lurking on this thread for a couple of days, but I’m glad one of the participants finally said this. Very distracting - it becomes hard to separate the good points from those more contentious and worthy of fuller inquiry.

I think some of the main debaters would do well to define their terms. It’s easy to say addiction vs. sin, habit vs. disease. How do these terms overlap (if at all)? How are they completely dissimilar (if at all)? I’m just wondering if these terms were defined, there might not be a lot more agreement and the conversation could evolve and be more pure.

 

[CopticChristian]

If all the people who used to drink alcoholically went back to taking a drink or drug, they would be okay? If addiction is sin, you need God.

Johnny,

Since this all started with LSD and a murder…this can all be tied in, I believe…let’s just say, as it regards the LSD thing…that requires some responsibility…let’s just say that based on what I know and what you experienced…let me ask a few questions…a simple yes or no will do.

Is it fair to say that an addict however you choose to characterize it as disease or habit is at heart a selfish person?

Is it fair to say that as someone comes to understand that addiction that they need to learn personal strength and the weakness that allowed them to slip into addiction?

Is it fair to say that the addict in their selfish delusion has poor relations with self, friends, family and community and that recovery/habit resolution requires to have a better self relationship, better friends, better family relationship and community involvement?

Is it fair to say that addicts value things differently in ther addiction than when in recovery/habit resolution and when those values change they change?

Is it fair to say that addicts as they resolve have a better understanding of what is right and what is wrong?

Is it fair to say that a person in recovery/resolution understands that self control is important?

Is it fair to say that a person in recovery/resolution values health?

Is it fair to say that a person in recovery/resolution improves their self esteem, has better relationships with self, friends, family community and can believe in accomplishment and competence?

Just a simple yes or no or I don’t know would do…

in regards to addiction as a Catholic it is sin.