SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[ralphy]

Who should investigate the police, the criminals?

If it’s not Catholics writing about Catholicism, whose going to do it? Atheists, Hindu’s or Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians? Come on man, your grasping at straws with this one!

No my friend, someone independent of them. Ralph

 

[Iamnotafraid]

No my friend, someone independent of them. Ralph

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens?

 

[cazayoux]

It was his will that Lucifer and 1/3 of his angels went to hell.

Not true. God’s will is for us to have free will. He allows us to make choices. THAT is HIS will.

Upon our death, God is our Judge and God gives us our sentence. Yes, it is God who decides where we go.

It is YOUR actions being judged, not His actions.
YOU decide your actions since God gave you the free will to do them.

That is frightening that God willingly chooses to create life, with the foreknowledge to know that said life will be spending all of eternity in a special place that He created, called hell.

I agree that God is sad that someone CHOOSES to reject and be separated from Him.

Q - Who created Hell?
A - God

As a response to Lucifer choosing to be separated from Him.

Q - Who sent Lucifer to earth, to live in a place called hell, and freely allows Lucifer to exist amongst his children?
A - God

… and allows us to CHOOSE Him or not.

Q - Who creates life, sets the rules, acts as the final Judge and gives out the sentence?
A - God

Again … YOUR actions are being judged, not God’s. Free will, baby. YOUR choice, not God’s.

It is very much Gods will, for if it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Again … God’s will for us is FREE WILL. The results are up to US.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

It sounds like you have work really hard in order to get this reward.

It IS hard … Jesus tells us to pick our cross daily.
I see you take the easy road.
The car ain’t free, the freedom to buy the car though is.

Scripture lists what we must do.

As a Catholic, I believe what the Bible says in terms of what one must do in order to get to Heaven …
Have faith (Rom 3:28, John 3:16, 1 John 4:15)
forgive the sins of others (Matt 6:14-15)
care for one’s family (1 Tim 5:8)
feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned (Matt 25:31-46)
keep the Commandments (Matt 19:17 and 1 John 2:3-4)
love my brother (1 John 2:10)
deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily (Luke 9:23)
do the will of the Father (Matt 7:21)
eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man (John 6:51-58)
give a return for the talents the Master has given us (Matt 25:14-30)
be baptized (John 3:3-5, 1 Ptr 3:20-21)
we hold fast our confidence and pride in our hope. (Heb 3:6)
confess our sins (1 John 1:9)…
all by the grace of God.

michel

 

[Tomster]

It was his will that Lucifer and 1/3 of his angels went to hell.

Upon our death, God is our Judge and God gives us our sentence. Yes, it is God who decides where we go.

Excellent question. Yet, this is precisely what God does. You see, when God creates a life, God being omniscient, already knows the outcome of that persons life. God knows if that person is going to make choices that send her to heaven or to hell.

Even though, God knows he made a baby, that in 95 years will die and end up in hell for the rest of eternity, God allows that life to come into being anyway.

That is frightening that God willingly chooses to create life, with the foreknowledge to know that said life will be spending all of eternity in a special place that He created, called hell.

Q - Who created Hell?
A - God
Q - Who sent Lucifer to earth, to live in a place called hell, and freely allows Lucifer to exist amongst his children?
A - God
Q - Who creates life, sets the rules, acts as the final Judge and gives out the sentence?
A - God

It is very much Gods will, for if it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Ah, now to the nitty gritty. You have played your hand. I was waiting for a response like this from you.

Christian doctrine insists on two things in this matter: a) to be saved we must co-operate with grace and b) no one is damned unless it be through his own fault. The Church has defined gratuitousness of predestination to grace and glory, but has condemned the predestinationism of Huss, Wycliffe, Luther and Calvin, who put those predestined to paradise and those predestined to hell on the same footing, independently of merit and demerit.

God absolutely wills that all men be saved.

Your slide into this heresy has been a long one.

 

[Lizziebel]

Actually, the car analogy is a pretty good one.

Your terms in the analogy basically means you choosing in your free will to do what is necessary to get the car you want, and to continue to do what is necessary to maintain it. As in, working and fulfilling your job requirements in order to earn money, keep your job, and afford the car (someone else’s terms). And if you need financing, it also means that you choose to fulfill the terms of payment (again someone else’s terms) in order to keep the car.

Likewise, if you choose Heaven, it means you’ve chosen in your free will to do what’s necessary (in this case, fulfilling God’s terms) to get there. And to continue to do what is necessary to stay/maintain on that path.

 

[CentralFLJames]

My point exactly. People going to hell, is Gods will. If it were not Gods will, it would not be so.

Hell is a place where we go to carry out Gods righteous justice. Just by being in hell, we are carrying out Gods will and thereby can take comfort and solace for all of eternity, knowing that we are carrying out our role in Gods plan.

This is hitting it from a “strange angle” and is not really accurate. God, believe it or not, lets one go to Hell out of Love and respect for our decisions - even though it pains Him when somone rejects Him. It is not His will per say so much as He permits it. His will is for us to repent and come to Him before we become obstinate in our rejection - at death its an irreversible choice. Now the sublime mystery is in knowing that God can see how you will elect to choose or reject Him and He has constructed His Divine Plan around every single person’s free choice in a way where OUR CHOICES are part of His Plan. In an ironic way we participate in writing God’s Divine Plan. So there is no predestiny to hell rather a foreseen choice for heaven or hell that is part of our own destiny as WE would have it. What is amazing in all this is that God knowing full well if we will reject Him or accept Him still shows no impartiality and gives us ALL the grace we will need for accepting Him - its part of His own fairness and justice. No one will be able to tell God “but you did not help me choose you” for lack of grace. In fact those that reject God will be made to say truthfully “I am damn by my own choices and faults”.

What this means is that Divine Providence is allready inclusive of everyone of our personal choices - every good deed and every bad deed. The beauty of it all is we already know in general terms the final outcome and we can also conclude that NOT one single evil thing anyone does can change Divine Providence’s outcome - NOT ONE. No Hitler, No Stalin, No Pol Pot, not even Satan can change one iota of the objective end that God has knit into Divine Providence since it has already been foreseen and planned for in cooperation with man’s free-choice in the presence of all the grace we need to make the right choices.

That is one aspect of the Divine Nature that makes God just so amazingly awesome to contemplate. How God can fairly shed His grace on every single soul without prejudice or malice knowing full well that many will mock Him and hurt His children and seek to do every evil against Him and His plan. A human minded god could never conceive to show compassion and mercy to even one’s worst foreseen enemies. If we were “in charge” we would obliterate such evil persons in the womb. But there is a mystery of inequity that is too deep for any human mind to fathom that God wants to reveal at the end of time. This decision for love is something important to God and this is why He permits us to suffer and why He permits some to choose to go to hell. There is more at stake than just us humans too. God is orchestrating a huge material and spiritual vision that has reach both in heaven and on earth and it is for some Divine Purpose and objective end that must be on the cosmological scale of the Universe of importance. We can assume too that there are very powerful spiritual beings involved on both sides of the divide . So we are only perceiving one dimension of the entire Divine Act. The scale of the spiritual struggle that is ongoing is mind boggling to contemplate.

James

 

[Iamnotafraid]

. THAT is HIS will.

Just as it is his will that we go to heaven or hell.

It is YOUR actions being judged, not His actions.
YOU decide your actions since God gave you the free will to do them.

It is God who decides where we go, it is his will and he made the rules that determines where we go. It’s easy to say it’s our will, but we live in a world, where we are bound by rules that this God created.

I agree that God is sad that someone CHOOSES to reject and be separated from Him.

It is sadder that God see’s fit to teach those children a lesson, by sending them to a nasty place called hell for all of eternity. Considering that God brought them into existence, only to suffer unspeakable pain in hell for eternity.

Non-existence would have been a much better option, if this is all true.

As a response to Lucifer choosing to be separated from Him.

As a response, God punished him by creating hell and sending him there. Not only that, but he allows Lucifer to prey freely upon his children.

That is no different than a parent locking their children in a play yard with a mountain lion. When the children are attacked, the parents just shrug their shoulders and blame the children for having exercised their free will and chosen to try to pet the mountain lion!

…

and allows us to CHOOSE Him or not.

With horrifying consequences for those who do not choose him. That’s not free will, that’s a threat. How much free will do you have if a gun is pointed at you and your told to choose?

Free will, baby. YOUR choice, not God’s.

Then I choose to exist in this world where Gods rules do not apply to me. I choose to live as I please and then I choose heaven upon my death. Free will Baby. Oh yeah, that’s right, I don’t get that choice.

God’s will for us is FREE WILL.

1. Your God already knows every decision you will ever make and your God knows your outcome at the end.

( Your God knows what he needs to do, to influence my rational mind and to influence me choose to believe. Yet, this God apparently, sits passively by, meanwhile, this God has conversations with believers…and presumably, this God is happy to have me an unbeliever, or he would appear to me, just as he appears to the posters who inhabit this form. )

1. Choose me or else!

That is not freedom, that is a decision to follow, based upon a dire threat of eternal damnation.

1. God can also perceive how we would have turned out, by being born to different mothers, in different time, conceivably in trillions of similar universes.

Yet, this God, chose for us to be born, to a specific mother, in a specific country, time and place. Knowing that that specific life we are about to live, will find us making decisions that will have us condemned to hell.

God would have the omniscience to know, for example, by having us born in a different, time, place or even universe, then we would make free choices that would have us spend eternity in heaven.

Yet God chooses for us, the life that leads us to hell.

With an all powerful God, who chooses where we are born, who raises and nurtures us, do we really have this free will in which you speak?

Of course not, for the outcome would be different, had this all powerful being not chosen to have had us born precisely where we find ourselves existing.

 

[ralphy]

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens?

I don’t know who these people are. Ralph

 

[Iamnotafraid]

I don’t know who these people are. Ralph

I suggest you spend some more time on Christian websites, and it will not be long until you are very familiar with these men.

 

[ralphy]

I suggest you spend some more time on Christian websites, and it will not be long until you are very familiar with these men.

I usually spend my time in the bible. Thanks

 

[Tomster]

I don’t know who these people are. Ralph

They are your basic, garden variety atheists.

 

[Tomster]

I usually spend my time in the bible. Thanks

Spending time in the Bible is a very good thing Ralphy. Very good indeed! A serious question all of the Catholics posting this thread have for you, though, is how can you claim to interpret Scripture infallibly?

I know this question has been asked over and over and in different ways but, please, answer it.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Please remain on topic. The Sacrament of Confession.

 

[Tomster]

Please remain on topic. The Sacrament of Confession.

10-4

 

[ralphy]

Going to confession is not important, but confessing our sins to God is very important. God has made it possible for us to come to Him directly for the forgiveness of our sins. This means we don’t need to go to confession to confess our sins before a minister or priest. We can go directly to the Lord in prayer.

“But if we confess our sins to him [God], he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong” (1 John 1:9).

God has given us free access to Him through His Son, Jesus. We can approach Him, seeking an intimate relationship with God. This means we do not have to go to confession to meet with Him, because He has created a meeting place where He can shower us with His mercy and grace.

“So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it” (Hebrews 4:16).

It is important to note that the privilege of approaching God freely and directly was bought with a great price through the blood of Jesus. The privilege was not gained by any minister or priest to which we have to go to confession. It was Christ’s sacrifice of love on the cross that bridged the gap between a just, holy God and us. When we trust Jesus for our salvation, God sees us through Christ and wipes away all of our sins. It was Jesus who bought our freedom to approach God.

“For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

God desires that we live a pure life before Him. He has given us the Holy Spirit, who helps us when there is something in our lives that shouldn’t be there. We examine our motives, our attitudes, and our thoughts for sins against God and man. When we find unflattering things in our lives, we don’t have to go to confession to confess them. But it is important that we go straight to the Lord in prayer to confess our sins, making this a daily exercise.

“Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life” (Psalm 139:23-24).

I do not know what denomination you are, but I can see that you are sound on your scripture about confession. Stick with the Bible for you will be judged by it in the end time… Ralph

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

I suggest you spend some more time on Christian websites, and it will not be long until you are very familiar with these men.

Your master Richard D & Co. is nothing but a little nil. Let him spend his money on buses trying to spread atheism.
Surely he too keeps calling out Iamnotafraid Iamnotafraid Iamnotafraid. A bunch of hollow eggheads.

Surprising that such people like he and even you our dear little “Iamnotafraid” spend such a lot of time trying to proof their hollow thought, that are less than a malodorous little wind passing by.
They’ll all simply “pass by” as unimportant and as soon forgotten as the mentioned little …

Still: All of you little nothings will see **

 

[Lizziebel]

Confession to God of sins is critically important, whether it is done in prayer (as the one who prayed in the temple “Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner” and went away justified) or whether it is done in the confessional.

Alone in prayer or in the confessional are both ways of confessing sins directly to God, telling God we are sorry for our sins, and asking for forgiveness and reconciliation with Him.

The confessional is another meeting place.

It is an important one, because there we physically hear the words of God’s forgiveness through the priest acting in the person of Christ for us in that moment. And, just recently having done my first confession, I can testify to the experience of receiving God’s graces through this sacrament. And with the priest hearing the confession, you also get the added benefit of useful counsel to avoid sin in the future and to stay on the right path!

 

[sauce]

You want me to read something the Roman catholics have written. That’s like the police force investigating itself, it dosen’t work, like shooting yourself in the foot. Ralph

Why do you hang out with Catholics on your free time?
Please Ralph. You love it.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Now the sublime mystery is in knowing that God can see how you will elect to choose or reject Him and He has constructed His Divine Plan around every single person’s free choice in a way where OUR CHOICES are part of His Plan. In an ironic way we participate in writing God’s Divine Plan. So there is no predestiny to hell rather a foreseen choice for heaven or hell that is part of our own destiny as WE would have it. What is amazing in all this is that God knowing full well if we will reject Him or accept Him still shows no impartiality and gives us ALL the grace we will need for accepting Him

I LOVE that you understand what it means to be omniscient.

Now, if you will, please give this question a go.

If what you said is true of Gods omniscience. Is it not a contradiction of benevolence, if God through his omniscience, knows that if had a person born in a different place, different time and to different parents, that the set of circumstances in that life, would result in eternal reward.

God chooses to have a baby born to Satan worshiping parents, instead of choosing to have a baby born to devout Christian missionaries.

Yet, through Gods omniscience, God is aware that if he had chosen to have had that same soul placed in a baby that was born 200 years ago to that devout Christian family, God can see that the life subsequently lived, would be one where the choices made, resulted in eternal reward in heaven.

You follow? Many Christians pretend they don’t know what I’m talking about or they claim that it is impossible for God to do that, ( thus limiting Gods power, and thereby reducing God to be other than omnipotent)

Instead, God is content, to have a baby born to a set of parents, that will raise him or her with a complete absence of belief.