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crochet_lady
Guest
Well – since any perspective of God’s Word Other than the Catholic Churches’ perspective is seen as being vile, uncharitable and non-Christian, I’ll simply wish all of you a blessed 2014.
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JamesTheJust
Guest
This is a misrepresentation. We see only “interpretations” which call the Pope “the Antichrist” and the Catholic Church “the Whore of Babylon” as vile.
Now, would you mind responding to our posts?
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Amandil
Guest
I think that that’s incredibly unfair of you. Unless I’m mistaken, nobody here put words into your mouth ,as you apparently are now doing to us.
Secondly, there is “perspective”, and there is the real antitheses between “true” and “false”. Coming to a Catholic forum should naturally tell you that we hold to the Catholic position, and that we hold this position as being absolutely true. Thus the corollary to that is that the protestant position is necessarily false(meaning that while it has some truths, it also contains many errors, and thus is necessarily false as a whole).
This “perspective”, as you see it exist in the protestant world, is not dependent on “us”. God’s Word is not a multitude of “perspectives”: “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism…” It is “One Faith”.
We ask you to account for the evidence we have provided and how it is contradicted by the protestant “perspective”. We also have corrected many errors based on what you have cited as being utterly biased and misinformed not only about history but about Catholic doctrine and Biblical theology.
If you find that knowing the truth, or having someone explain the truth to you, is offensive, well, I’m sorry that you feel that way.
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adrift
Guest
Obviously you are referring to my post and mine alone since no one else said what you quoted. You are being dishones when you say perspective on God’s word when what I was commenting on was not what they said about God’s word but what they said about the Catholic Church. Is this just away to avoid hard questions that are asked of you?
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Mr_Clean
Guest
I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic when I asked you to share Baptist doctrine with us. I was trying to make a point.
You say Protestant - Baptist your whole life but you put up links to sites that are not officially tied to the Baptist Church. I suppose since there is not a central governing body for the Baptist Church then you have to look elsewhere. I know Baptist believe only “believers” should be baptised and by immersion only. Saved by faith alone right? Beyond that they follow the standard Protestant beliefs.
When I read your posts I see what my “religion” was before converting - its called “salad bar theology”.
There are real dangers to trying to interpret the Bible thru the eyes and the languages of current cultures. Now I looked at the CARM website and it has Roman Catholicism lumped in with what it refers to as “heresies” like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witness, and Wicca? Then they provide info on teachings from the early church fathers but treat that as if its not what the Catholic Church believes or teaches anymore.
Come on Crochet Lady, you can do better.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah well I know him pretty well, as you should have been able to see.Will respond to several of ya’ll at the same time
For one thing – I’d found the article “Who holds the keys?” on another Forum / Rapture Forum’s.com. Was having trouble relocating it – typed in the title of the article and relocated it under that other guy – No clue as to who he is…
My point, relevant to your topic is that you apparently agree with Gendron’s article on the keys. Am I correct? If that is true then you should find my response to his article enlightening (at least) and disturbing (possibly), if you read it and can see that what he said was untrue.
I’d like to know what you think. To me, even just based upon a Sola Scriptura perspective, I have to conclude that his teaching are consistently wrong.
What do you say?
Well that would certainly be possible with someone like you perhaps, but let me link you to some information on things Mike Gendron has said, and then I would like to know if you feel his behavior is exemplary of a good Christian if you were the target of his actions. How would you feel if he did some of the following things to your church?
From his latest e-newsletter:
On Christmas Eve, Mike Gendron and eight other members of Grace Life Church of Dallas went to a Catholic Church in Plano to share the good news of Jesus Christ. The Catholic web site,
Deeper Truth Blog, reported “about the same time that Grace Life Church in Dallas was making their attack on Catholics, another attack was taking place a half a world away. A young woman went running up through the crowd and jumped on the Altar of the Lord.” She wrote on her chest that “I Am God”. She was quickly taken away, but her intent was to bring confusion and disruption. Grace Life Church and this Feminist group interestingly joined together in spreading misleading information and cast attacks on the people of God. They were not spreading Christmas cheer or good will but to go on a rant. Read more.Mike Gendron’s lies and he wanted to see Pope Benedict XVI
Mike Gendron “witnesses” to Priest in confession.
Mike Gendron doesn’t like me. (Glory be to God!!!)
Then we have to wonder why you can’t seem to see our valid points. We show you using the Word of God why and where we find these things and yet you act like we haven’t responded. Granted…you’re surrounded
, but you’re the one who asked. Did you come here under the misapprehension that we were ignorant of the Word of God and why we believe what we do? we get that a lot from various n-Cs who come in here.(Cont’d)
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Church_Militant
Guest
Thank you very much. Now can you respond to it? After all, I invest a good deal of my time in study and composing the results of my studies. I don’t do it for show or just for drill. It’s important to me and all faithful Catholics) because truth is important.
Really?
That’s not what these people say? Their doctrines are laid out at The Baptist Faith & Message - Southern Baptist ConventionBut then, in Atlanta they lay it out like this, Statement of Faith - First Baptist Church Atlanta
But then these Baptists say Our Beliefs | North American Baptists, Inc.
So it’s not like Baptists…or even Presbyterians don’t set down what they believe. You could even call it their own catechisms could you not? Do you agree with all these?
No! Really?! And what do we Catholics do? Eat chopped liver?
Poll: Catholics and Bible reading.
To be honest, I hear more scripture at every Mass that I attend than I ever did in all my years among the Jesus People, Baptists, or the Assembly of God, and the sermons I am hearing are far more challenging in their call to walk with Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ in ever deepening holiness. i wish I had recordings of some of the homilies I have heard recently so you could see what I mean.
You’re kidding right?
I have been boycotting Matt Slick’s CARM forum for years now. it is one of the worst cesspools of grossly uncharitable anti-Catholic propaganda and polemics to be found anywhere on the internet. I still have my account there, but I’ll never post there again because there is no point in supporting them in any way, shape, or form. It is one the worst censored (not moderated…there is no moderation there)excuses for a forum anywhere on the web. you can be as derisive and insulting as you please…unless you are a Catholic, and then you can’t even offer links to real accurate information as to what we authentically teach and believe. Frankly…we are better off here on CAF. If anyone wants to know the truth it’s not like we are hard to find here at Catholic.com.Thanks Be To God for CAF! Where even n-Cs and a-Cs can link to their articles on topics they want to discuss without censorship.
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spina1953
Guest
Church Militant: Thanks for what you posted. I remember a cousin in law who I once invited to Mass and she said to me that she had heard more Gospel and Bible passages at our Mass then she had ever heard in any of the Protestant churches she attended. So this alone for me bears out just what you said in your post. great stuff! your post.
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eddie_too
Guest
it seems incoherent and incorrect to believe that an inanimate object (the Bible) possesses some kind of innate authority that exists nowhere else.
that this belief in the authority of the bible is an incoherent and incorrect belief becomes even more apparent when we accept the FACT that the contents of the bible must be interpreted by human beings if they are to have ANY meaning at all.
how can an object be authoritative if it must be interpreted by a human being to be understood.
if the bible does not need to be interpreted, who are all of these men and women standing in front of congregations every sunday telling those in the congregation what the words in the bible mean?
that this belief in the authority of the bible is an incoherent and incorrect belief becomes even more apparent when we accept the FACT that the contents of the bible must be interpreted by human beings if they are to have ANY meaning at all.
how can an object be authoritative if it must be interpreted by a human being to be understood.
if the bible does not need to be interpreted, who are all of these men and women standing in front of congregations every sunday telling those in the congregation what the words in the bible mean?
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FathersKnowBest
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spina1953
Guest
I have a comment to make concerning the statement that Peter opened the doors of heaven to thousands. It was Jesus the Christ by His crucifixion and raising from the dead that opened the gates of heaven, since they had been closed since the time of Adam and Eve’s sin. The Gospel does not in and of itself open the door of heaven but Christ. The Gospel is what Jesus proclaimed to all who will come to believe. Yet, one can believe in the Gospel but still not enter heaven. it takes more than that. in Matt. 26 makes the Jesus’ point that He said that not all who say Jesus, Jesus, will enter heaven nor those who say when did you ask for water, food, or all that He said etc… will enter heaven. Lastly ,no matter how much good one does that does not mean one gets into heaven either. God knows the intent and the soul of all and no one can get into heaven without Christ.
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Mr_Clean
Guest
Like we’ve all heard many times - even Satan and the rest of the fallen angels know who Jesus is and they know God’s word (probably very well). They however are not obedient to God or His Word. If an angel is not allowed in who knows Jesus and the Word, then what chance do we lowly humans have. Clearly obedience to Christ is necessary for salvation and Scripture makes this claim more than once.
Once saved, always saved? Its not true.
Peter was given the keys and with that the responsibility through the Church to teach us that. How many years went by without a printed Bible and a large population who could actually read it? Somebody had to TELL you what obedience to Christ ment.
Of course now the world is full of people who think they are better equipped to interpret scripture than those who were actual witnesses.
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crochet_lady
Guest
Jharek Carnelian
I just looked up Both Forums that I mentioned. Well – CARM isn’t a Forum. It contains Lots of articles about LOTS of subjects. And I’m not aware of a Forum connected with it.
Rapture Forums – the front page has Nothing objectionable on it. It also has LOTS of subjects listed on the side – Roman Catholicisim is but one of Many. So you clicked into That and found the pics of the nun and priest and Vatican City. And, yes, I’m thinking it Was being refered to as a cult as were many other belief systems.
My understanding of a ‘cult’ is a belief system that originates from a person having a vision of some kind and given extra-Biblical information and he / she ends up having a group of followers. I would NOT characterize the RCC in that manner.
You realize that there are Lots of perspectives in this world about Lots of subjects? As an example - a discussion with an evolutionist / not believing in Any ‘god’ or Church of Any kind/ denomination. So am I going to get my feelings hurt because he makes fun of my Biblical beliefs in the Genesis creation and debunks Any referrences to Creation sources in the internet? And he won’t admit that Science is his ‘god’. And he got Very upset because I mentioned God of the Bible whom he saw as a horrible entity that allowed horrible things to happen to people – so here he didn’t believe in God but he used Him as a good scape goat to Blame all the ills of the world on.
Mormons feel They have all the correct answers – as do SDA’s and Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc, etc, The Jesus Christ is telling mankind that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man cometh to the Father, but through Him. John 14:6
I just looked up Both Forums that I mentioned. Well – CARM isn’t a Forum. It contains Lots of articles about LOTS of subjects. And I’m not aware of a Forum connected with it.
Rapture Forums – the front page has Nothing objectionable on it. It also has LOTS of subjects listed on the side – Roman Catholicisim is but one of Many. So you clicked into That and found the pics of the nun and priest and Vatican City. And, yes, I’m thinking it Was being refered to as a cult as were many other belief systems.
My understanding of a ‘cult’ is a belief system that originates from a person having a vision of some kind and given extra-Biblical information and he / she ends up having a group of followers. I would NOT characterize the RCC in that manner.
You realize that there are Lots of perspectives in this world about Lots of subjects? As an example - a discussion with an evolutionist / not believing in Any ‘god’ or Church of Any kind/ denomination. So am I going to get my feelings hurt because he makes fun of my Biblical beliefs in the Genesis creation and debunks Any referrences to Creation sources in the internet? And he won’t admit that Science is his ‘god’. And he got Very upset because I mentioned God of the Bible whom he saw as a horrible entity that allowed horrible things to happen to people – so here he didn’t believe in God but he used Him as a good scape goat to Blame all the ills of the world on.
Mormons feel They have all the correct answers – as do SDA’s and Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc, etc, The Jesus Christ is telling mankind that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man cometh to the Father, but through Him. John 14:6
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Mr_Clean
Guest
Crochet Lady, nobody here will disagree with your last sentence.
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JamesTheJust
Guest
Would you mind responding directly to my exegeses of Isaiah 22 (posts #22 and #32)?
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crochet_lady
Guest
Also – the comment that I was responding to was from James The Just # 31 – he was the one using the terms ‘vile, uncharitable and unChristian’ in relation to those who don’t like non-Catholic sources.
Mr. Clean
Your comment about the angels – the Fallen angels / demons here on earth Do know and tremble because they know their time Here comes to an end and they will be destroyed.
The rest of the angels / in heaven / have specific jobs. Angel = messenger. And there is a verse that says that Christ Could have called a thousand angels to save Him from the cross. But He didn’t because He knew His crucifixion was the purpose of His being here. He came to die on the cross , shed His blood for our sins and rise again breaking the power of Satan over this world.
Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell a person , He Never leaves us.
spina 1953
"The Gospel is what Jesus proclaimed to all who will come to believe --( His very own death, burial and bodily resurrection ) – yet, you say that That is Not enough to enter heaven – that More is required. What a person believes in their Heart is what matters. And, yes, it’s true – Anyone can Say ‘Lord, Lord’ but if it’s Not coming from their Heart belief they’re simply empty words. And you’re Also right – we can Do all sorts of ’ things’ , but those ‘things’ Won’t get us into heaven. It’s the Heart that God sees. And, you’re also right – no one gets into heaven without Christ. That is the ‘key’.
Mr. Clean
Your comment about the angels – the Fallen angels / demons here on earth Do know and tremble because they know their time Here comes to an end and they will be destroyed.
The rest of the angels / in heaven / have specific jobs. Angel = messenger. And there is a verse that says that Christ Could have called a thousand angels to save Him from the cross. But He didn’t because He knew His crucifixion was the purpose of His being here. He came to die on the cross , shed His blood for our sins and rise again breaking the power of Satan over this world.
Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell a person , He Never leaves us.
spina 1953
"The Gospel is what Jesus proclaimed to all who will come to believe --( His very own death, burial and bodily resurrection ) – yet, you say that That is Not enough to enter heaven – that More is required. What a person believes in their Heart is what matters. And, yes, it’s true – Anyone can Say ‘Lord, Lord’ but if it’s Not coming from their Heart belief they’re simply empty words. And you’re Also right – we can Do all sorts of ’ things’ , but those ‘things’ Won’t get us into heaven. It’s the Heart that God sees. And, you’re also right – no one gets into heaven without Christ. That is the ‘key’.
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JamesTheJust
Guest
Actually, it is post #32 to which you are referring.
So name calling (i.e., “Whore of Babylon” and “Antichrist”) and libel (Mary Ann Collins’ lies about the Church) are perfectly Christ-like, in your view?
Would you mind responding directly to the rest of post #32, and post #22 as well?
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Mr_Clean
Guest
Nobody here will tell you “things” will save you. We are saved by our faith but the bible also says faith without works is dead. Jesus doesn’t want lip service he demands obedience. You can’t obey by words alone - you have to act as well. Lots of bench warmers in every denomination.
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JamesTheJust
Guest
Indeed. In case you didn’t know, crochet lady, we believe that our salvation is utterly and entirely by God’s grace. It involves works, but not OUR works.
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crochet_lady
Guest
eddie too
The Bible Does possess those qualities you mentioned Because it’s not simply ‘some book’, but it’s God’s Word to all of us. You said it seems incoherant and incorrect. That a book would have That much influence / power.
The idea that the Bible would be more or as important than say ‘Shakespeare’ or some of the other works in literature Would seem odd. Except that it Is indeed God’s Word to all of us.
And we Can read it for ourselves and understand it - without someone having to spoon-fed ‘it’ to us. On the other hand, pastors /elders /bishops Do have their place. God’s Word Tells us they do. Because Some people Have been given a special ‘knack’ for being able to share with others. A pastor / teacher Should be taking passages of God’s Word and outlining them. Paragraphs / chapters – reading them / getting the context / what is the passage saying?
YOU are very capable of picking up a Bible – or go on-line and look up a particular version – look up a particular Book and chapter by chapter-- read it for yourself.
What’s irritating to Me is when a pastor reads a section / or a few verses and proceeds with ‘in other words’ – and I’m thinking ‘I can read this myself’ . So Why go to church? To fellowship with other people who believe the same way I do. And How do I know what a group believes? Start with the name of the church. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Cathollic, Assemblies. Lots of denominations out there. But 1st – what does God’s Word say. And a person Can go talk with the pastor and ask what he teaches.
The Bible Does possess those qualities you mentioned Because it’s not simply ‘some book’, but it’s God’s Word to all of us. You said it seems incoherant and incorrect. That a book would have That much influence / power.
The idea that the Bible would be more or as important than say ‘Shakespeare’ or some of the other works in literature Would seem odd. Except that it Is indeed God’s Word to all of us.
And we Can read it for ourselves and understand it - without someone having to spoon-fed ‘it’ to us. On the other hand, pastors /elders /bishops Do have their place. God’s Word Tells us they do. Because Some people Have been given a special ‘knack’ for being able to share with others. A pastor / teacher Should be taking passages of God’s Word and outlining them. Paragraphs / chapters – reading them / getting the context / what is the passage saying?
YOU are very capable of picking up a Bible – or go on-line and look up a particular version – look up a particular Book and chapter by chapter-- read it for yourself.
What’s irritating to Me is when a pastor reads a section / or a few verses and proceeds with ‘in other words’ – and I’m thinking ‘I can read this myself’ . So Why go to church? To fellowship with other people who believe the same way I do. And How do I know what a group believes? Start with the name of the church. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Cathollic, Assemblies. Lots of denominations out there. But 1st – what does God’s Word say. And a person Can go talk with the pastor and ask what he teaches.
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