SPLIT: Paying for Faith Formation

[familyof4]

Should I compile a list of what exactly I contribute to my parish?

I feel no need to prove myself to anyone here and then cry about how much I do, or how much others do, compared to those other “lazy parishioners.”

If someone pays money out of their own pocket to give the Faith to another, that’s WONDERFUL! If you give to your parish by teaching the Faith, awesome! But if you’re bitter about doing it, always looking around at the others in the Church and questioning what they do or don’t do, you are not doing it in the spirit Christ intended. And if that bitterness leads to attaching fees to Sacraments… then what in the world are you doing there in the first place?

No, I haven’t taught in the Catholic Church. My husband has and several friends and family (including my brother-in-law, a priest). I haven’t had that opportunity yet. I have taught in Protestant churches with all the right intentions (unlike what someone else said about the motives behind free Protestant classes), and have seen that generosity in teaching begets generosity in other ways.

Look, obviously I’m outnumbered on this thread. People tend to express opinions on the majority side anyway (basic psychology) so I doubt anyone will truly step back and consider the points I’ve made or those made by Jimmy Akin or the priest who moderates this forum.

I believe this is a far more serious issue than you all realize and will only weaken our Church in the future.

With that, goodnight and God bless you all!

I think, if you honestly look at your posts, and those of others who have given their thoughts, you’d see that you are also having a problem with projection (since we’re going for basic psychology! )

I actually went and read the blog for Akin (which you only posted a portion of, and did not link to the original document). From what I read (here’s the link for those who are interested), he is talking about one thing, and you are extrapolating it to cover the additional materials, which as other have said cost money, unfortunately. jimmyakin.org/2005/08/simony_at_sunda.html I don’t have a strong opinion on Akin one way or another, but find it ironic that someone who makes his living by being an apologist gives a side eye to those who are only asking for help in paying for materials, not the teachings themselves. Do you see a distinction between materials and the sharing of knowledge?

In a perfect world, everyone would be able to tithe enough to cover all these costs. But it isn’t perfect, so we have to ask for money. Those who can’t afford are not turned away.

You have avoided direct questions and thoughtful responses, and that I personally find frustrating.

Good night, I hope tomorrow brings better things.

 

[jmcrae]

Look, obviously I’m outnumbered on this thread. People tend to express opinions on the majority side anyway (basic psychology) so I doubt anyone will truly step back and consider the points I’ve made or those made by Jimmy Akin or the priest who moderates this forum.

You do realize that you could never go to a Jimmy Akin lecture for free, right? There is not even a waiver for the poor, for that, since it’s how he makes his living - he is not just covering the cost of his video and powerpoint - he is actually living off the proceeds of his lectures (as you are accusing the DREs of doing with Sacramental Preparation programs, which they do NOT do). And you would have to pay way more than $25.00 for a series of 52 lectures, right? I think to attend one Jimmy Akin lecture, 90 minutes, is a few hundred dollars.

So, I don’t think he is saying what you think he is saying. Either that, or he is a mighty hypocrite, expecting others to give away everything for free, while he rakes in the charges for the very same information, in most cases.

 

[Memaw]

From another thread:

I had signed my kids up for VBS, but then, dh was laid off. It’s $45. So, I emailed my friend who was doing the sign ups to take the kids off the list. But, then she wanted to pay the fees. My friend is on a very tight income and I don’t want to take money from them for an optional activity.

So, then I talked to the director of the program about us paying the fees later this summer when dh is working again. It was so humiliating. I figured since she was a good friend too, that she would keep it quiet and either tell me yes or no. But, she said she’d submit our name to the pastor for financial assistance. He’s evaluating requests for fee waivers because “he’ll know who really needs help and who’s trying to be cheap.”

I’m so unsettled by the whole thing. First of all, I don’t think there should be a fee for VBS. Secondly, I think if you are volunteering, you shouldn’t have to pay. I’m working two of the nights and my teens are working all week.

It’ll about kill us since only have a few hundred dollars until unemployment kicks in–two weeks away. Unemployment goes from Sunday to Saturday. And, since dh’s last day was a Sunday, he has to wait both that week and the waiver week and the next week before he can collect. His boss also cancelled vacation pay.

Unemployment compensation is half of our usual take home. I’m not really sure what we are going to do…

What really is hitting me is that it is very hard to be poor. And, offering waivers and scholarships since like a nice idea, but in actuality is both humiliating and an obstacle for parents participating in programs. I’ve helped run programs in the past that have offered a waiver or reduced fees for those who qualify. Now, I can see how hard it is to ask for it. Our CCD program charges hefty fees, too.

Is our church only for middle class and wealthy families? Of course, we can always make the poor grovel and apply for a fee waiver…

It would be hard to tell my little kids that they can’t go now that we’ve talked about it and my teens and I are committed to working it. So, either I pay all or I grovel…more, I mean. Or, I pull them out.

To tell you the truth, I’m leaning towards pulling them.

That’s to bad because your kids will be the ones to suffer from not knowing their faith, all because of your pride. God Bless, Memaw.

 

[Edward_H]

This has been a good point of examination for me, not sure it will help others:

Am I always on the edge of being offended? Do I suffer well and quietly? Do I cheerfully offer up offenses for the salvation of all souls?

 

[MelbaTozt]

I actually went and read the blog for Akin (which you only posted a portion of, and did not link to the original document). From what I read (here’s the link for those who are interested), he is talking about one thing, and you are extrapolating it to cover the additional materials, which as other have said cost money, unfortunately. jimmyakin.org/2005/08/simony_at_sunda.html I don’t have a strong opinion on Akin one way or another, but find it ironic that someone who makes his living by being an apologist gives a side eye to those who are only asking for help in paying for materials, not the teachings themselves. Do you see a distinction between materials and the sharing of knowledge?

Odd, I went back and looked at my post and it contains the same link you provided. Are you sure you really read that post? And I did paste it in its entirety. Please double check. I’m not trying to trick anyone here… odd to be accused of it in weird ways like this and some other comments others made.

What Akin said is that materials should not be a requirement… but optional if there is a fee attached. Teaching the basics of the Faith should never come with a price tag from the Church. (Sure, individuals can start their own Faith Formation services outside of the parish and charge whatever they want. And if you want to go around sharing your faith with a $75 price-tag per person, then go ahead. Just do it outside of the Church. That’s between you and God.)

I wonder, do you think that in the early churches there were such fees to teach the Faith to anyone? They had expenses. And I’m willing to bet they did a bang-up job of it, too. Poverty and lack of money isn’t some new concept relevant only to us in 2011.

 

[Corki]

One of the commentors at the JA blog made an interesting observation. Since these CCE programs expend so much more than they typically take in from “fees”, what we call a “fee” is really a reimbursement. It’s not simony to request reimbursement for an expense that is being incurred on the child’s behalf.

I highly respect Jimmy Aikin but I think his logic is a bit flawed on this topic. If is is simony to charge for ongoing religious education, then it would be simony to charge for a Bible study class (including the ones he recommends on his blog), to pay for Catholic schools, to pay for a theology degree, etc.

His blog entry doesn’t seem to show an understanding for the diocisan umbrella under which parish programs fall either. His Protestant background (all you need is a Bible) may be clouding his idea of what is actually included in a good parish CCE program.

 

[MelbaTozt]

One of the commentors at the JA blog made an interesting observation. Since these CCE programs expend so much more than they typically take in from “fees”, what we call a “fee” is really a reimbursement. It’s not simony to request reimbursement for an expense that is being incurred on the child’s behalf.

I highly respect Jimmy Aikin but I think his logic is a bit flawed on this topic. If is is simony to charge for ongoing religious education, then it would be simony to charge for a Bible study class (including the ones he recommends on his blog), to pay for Catholic schools, to pay for a theology degree, etc.

His blog entry doesn’t seem to show an understanding for the diocisan umbrella under which parish programs fall either. His Protestant background (all you need is a Bible) may be clouding his idea of what is actually included in a good parish CCE program.

He wrote: "I perhaps could see charging a fee for an advanced course in something that is not basic catechesis.

But if they are really charging for basic instruction in the faith then it seems to me to be simony."

Bible studies or advanced courses that are not tied directly to receiving a Holy Sacrament wouldn’t fall under that umbrella. We are talking basic instruction in the Faith that the parishes have made mandatory in order to receive the Sacraments.

Reimbursement or fee… it doesn’t really matter. Each and every Sacrament the Church provides has expenses. Breaking down the expenses and then collecting them individually at the point of providing them creates a huge obstacle between the Sacraments and the people.

Yet, it would be economically fair in the sense you’re using. I don’t argue that at all.

 

[Corki]

He wrote: "I perhaps could see charging a fee for an advanced course in something that is not basic catechesis.

But if they are really charging for basic instruction in the faith then it seems to me to be simony."

Bible studies or advanced courses that are not tied directly to receiving a Holy Sacrament wouldn’t fall under that umbrella. We are talking basic instruction in the Faith that the parishes have made mandatory in order to receive the Sacraments.

Actually we are talking about faith formation classes, not just those tied to receiving a Sacrament. As has been pointed out to you several times, taking the classes isn’t mandetory for the Sacrament. A person can go directly to the pastor, prove his child is prepared and skip the classes altogether. But if a parent choses to use the classes, is it reasonable for the parish to expect the parent to pay something?

Bible study **is **basic faith formation as is Catholic school education. And those aren’t free.

My personal preferences would be to do away with the fees and instead institute mandatory volunteer hours. That’s what the Catholic schools do when you get a tuition break. Maybe a family could be asked to put in 20 hours per child per year working at the parish or volunteering in the CCE classroom. This would certainly aleviate the pressure put on the 20 or so volunteers who are expected now to do everything.

And they can’t call it simony since working for the good of the parish is already a requirement.

I know a charter school (free public school) in Houston that makes this a requirement for all families It might work.

 

[MelbaTozt]

Actually we are talking about faith formation classes, not just those tied to receiving a Sacrament. As has been pointed out to you several times, taking the classes isn’t mandetory for the Sacrament. A person can go directly to the pastor, prove his child is prepared and skip the classes altogether. But if a parent choses to use the classes, is it reasonable for the parish to expect the parent to pay something?

Bible study **is **basic faith formation as is Catholic school education. And those aren’t free.

My personal preferences would be to do away with the fees and instead institute mandatory volunteer hours. That’s what the Catholic schools do when you get a tuition break. Maybe a family could be asked to put in 20 hours per child per year working at the parish or volunteering in the CCE classroom. This would certainly aleviate the pressure put on the 20 or so volunteers who are expected now to do everything.

And they can’t call it simony since working for the good of the parish is already a requirement.

I know a charter school (free public school) in Houston that makes this a requirement for all families It might work.

A church and a school are two different entities. One is the Bride of Christ! The foundation and cornerstone of Truth! The place where the Holy Mass takes place and Our Lord is truly present!

Pardon the exclamation points, but really, it’s important to know the profound difference here. (Which I’m sure you do, and I understand the point you were making. I just don’t want to sully the Church with a comparison to a charter school.)

Firstly, many parishes make it a requirement to have some amount of faith formation in order to receive a Sacrament. Sure, there may be loopholes for someone who knows their rights well, but we can all agree that these options are not advertised for those who do not. (Although some have pointed out that someone who doesn’t know that they can bypass the DRE isn’t worthy of receiving the Sacrament in the first place. I will happily disagree.) As I demonstrated in a previous post, offering financial aid is an impediment to those who are too embarrassed or ashamed to ask.

Secondly, requiring families to volunteer in order to receive instruction in the Faith so that they may have access to the Sacraments is wrong as well. What if a family cannot provide their time or money?

That is why tithing is not a requirement. What I mean by that, is that the Church doesn’t stop you at the door and require you to put in your money before coming in. It is between us and God what we can give. Some may have nothing. Some may have a lot. The Church can make recommendations (like, please consider giving for our new roof, etc.) and guide us in making decisions in how much to give considering our individual incomes, but it is not a fee taken at the door in order to enter and attend Mass or go to Confession.

 

[Corki]

A church and a school are two different entities. One is the Bride of Christ! The foundation and cornerstone of Truth! The place where the Holy Mass takes place and Our Lord is truly present!

Pardon the exclamation points, but really, it’s important to know the profound difference here. (Which I’m sure you do, and I understand the point you were making. I just don’t want to sully the Church with a comparison to a charter school.)

Firstly, many parishes make it a requirement to have some amount of faith formation in order to receive a Sacrament. Sure, there may be loopholes for someone who knows their rights well, but we can all agree that these options are not advertised for those who do not.

Secondly, requiring families to volunteer in order to receive instruction in the Faith so that they may have access to the Sacraments is wrong as well. What if a family cannot provide their time or money?

That is why tithing is not a requirement. What I mean by that, is that the Church doesn’t stop you at the door and require you to put in your money before coming in. It is between us and God what we can give. Some may have nothing. Some may have a lot. The Church can make recommendations (like, please consider giving for our new roof, etc.) and guide us in making decisions in how much to give considering our individual incomes, but it is not a fee taken at the door in order to enter and attend Mass or go to Confession.

You missed my point. The argument that Jimmy Aikin and others are making is that you shouldn’t pay for basic faith formation. It doesn’t matter where that formation comes from. Simony isn’t simony based on who does the selling. It’s based on what is being sold. So if you pay for faith formation at a Catholic school or Bible study at your parish, how is that different than paying for faith formation provided by the CCE program?

The Holy Mass does not take place in CCE (although it does take place in Catholic schools). You are confusing the Church with the Religious Education program. The CCE program is not the Bride of Christ.

The CCE program is a service, an educational service. You don’t pay to go to Mass, you don’t pay to receive Confession but you pay for services - even services provided through the Church. If you go to Catholic Social Services for counseling you will be charged. If you go into a Catholic hospital for surgery, you will be charged. If you spend your last days in a Catholic nursing home, you will be charged. All services have costs and the costs must be paid somehow. How is it wrong to pay for the service of somone else teaching your kids about the faith but not wrong to pay someone to provide you any other service?

You missed the point of the comparison to the Charter school as well. A Charter school is a public school and is legally required to be free. But a CS can require that families put in a minimum number of volunteer hours. If the point is that faith formation should be free, then volunteer hours is one way to approach it instead of monetarily.

Every family that has kids in CCE can afford to give some time to the program. Most of the parents just hang around the parking lot for the hour their kids are in class anyway. If they have time to bring their kids to class, they have time to help in the program.

And tithing IS a requirement. We are all to give time, talent and treasure. There is just not a set amount required. If a family can’t give money, then they give more in time and vice versa.

 

[MelbaTozt]

You missed my point. The argument that Jimmy Aikin and others are making is that you shouldn’t pay for basic faith formation. It doesn’t matter where that formation comes from. Simony isn’t simony based on who does the selling. It’s based on what is being sold. So if you pay for faith formation at a Catholic school or Bible study at your parish, how is that different than paying for faith formation provided by the CCE program?

The Holy Mass does not take place in CCE (although it does take place in Catholic schools). You are confusing the Church with the Religious Education program. The CCE program is not the Bride of Christ.

The CCE program is a service, an educational service. You don’t pay to go to Mass, you don’t pay to receive Confession but you pay for services - even services provided through the Church. If you go to Catholic Social Services for counseling you will be charged. If you go into a Catholic hospital for surgery, you will be charged. If you spend your last days in a Catholic nursing home, you will be charged. All services have costs and the costs must be paid somehow. How is it wrong to pay for the service of somone else teaching your kids about the faith but not wrong to pay someone to provide you any other service?

You missed the point of the comparison to the Charter school as well. A Charter school is a public school and is legally required to be free. But a CS can require that families put in a minimum number of volunteer hours. If the point is that faith formation should be free, then volunteer hours is one way to approach it instead of monetarily.

Every family that has kids in CCE can afford to give some time to the program. Most of the parents just hang around the parking lot for the hour their kids are in class anyway. If they have time to bring their kids to class, they have time to help in the program.

And tithing IS a requirement. We are all to give time, talent and treasure. There is just not a set amount required. If a family can’t give money, then they give more in time and vice versa.

When the service is attached to a Sacrament, it becomes something more than itself.

Canon 727

§1. By divine law, simony is the studied will to buy or sell fo ra temporal price an intrinsically spiritual thing, for example, Sacraments, ecclesiastical jurisdiction, consecration, indulgences, and so forth, or ***temporal things so connected with spiritual things that without the spiritual they cannot exist***, for example, ecclesiastical benifices, and so on, or a spiritual thing that is, even in part, the object of a contract, for example, the consecration of a chalice consecrated in sale.

There are two issues here. The service attached to the Sacrament and whether the Church should charge for teaching the basics of the Faith.

I believe neither should have fees attached, but one is more scandalous than the other.

The Church doesn’t require us to give ANYTHING to receive the Sacraments. To be good Catholics/Christians, we should support the parish. But there’s a profound difference between requiring that support in order to obtain that which was freely given by Christ so that it would be freely given to us. That is why there isn’t a charge at the door. Amen.

“Freely you have received, freely give.”

 

[KarenElissa]

But if they are really charging for basic instruction in the faith then it seems to me to be simony."

Again, I would like to know if you are charging my bishop, as well as any number of other bishops with simony? Because that seems to be a pretty big charge on an awful lot of people.

 

[Corki]

One more thought for all of you on the “no” side for fees.

The Church has always reserved some Sacraments for those who are active in the parish. You can’t get married in most parishes unless you are an active parishioner; you can’t have a funeral in many parishes if you weren’t an active parishioner, you can’t receive Communion if you aren’t a Catholic in good standing, nor be a Godparent for a child being Baptized. In fact, you usually can’t get a child baptized if you don’t belong to the parish.

But we take all comers to CCE. They come from surrounding parishes because our classes might be cheaper or more convenient. As I have mentioned, many students come from families that do not make any attempt to practice their faith. When a 9th grader can’t make the sign of the cross, you know he’s not going to Mass. We charge a small fee so that we can teach those children who are not already part of the parish family. If we were to do away with the fee, we would have no choice but to limit CCE enrollment to the children of “active parishioners” (those who are putting envelopes in the basket) just like the other Sacraments.

Frankly, I’ll take the hit if it’s worse to offend some mom who would doesn’t blink at $200 a MONTH for gymnastics class or who takes out a loan for the child’s quincinera dress but is outraged at paying $25 a YEAR for CCE if it means that the class will also include those kids who are only going to learn about their faith from me and maybe a distant Catholic relative they see once a year.

 

[EasterJoy]

It is one thing to say it is to be hoped faith formation can be offered for free. It is quite another to imply that there is any right to receive instruction in the faith for free. To the contrary, although Paul did not charge for his preaching, he made it clear that it was within his rights as an Apostle to be supported by the Gospel:

*My defense against those who would pass judgment on me is this. Do we not have the right to eat and drink? Do we not have the right to take along a Christian wife, as do the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? Or is it only myself and Barnabas who do not have the right not to work?

Who ever serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating its produce? Or who shepherds a flock without using some of the milk from the flock? Am I saying this on human authority, or does not the law also speak of these things? It is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is God concerned about oxen, or is he not really speaking for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope, and the thresher in hope of receiving a share. If we have sown spiritual seed for you, is it a great thing that we reap a material harvest from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more?

**Yet we have not used this right. *On the contrary, we endure everything so as not to place an obstacle to the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who perform the temple services eat [what] belongs to the temple, and those who minister at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the gospel should live by the gospel. 1 Cor. 9:3-14

If you receive the spiritual seed, Paul teaches that the sower of that seed has a right to expect to reap a material harvest. You do not have a right to expect the rest of the faithful to pick up the tab for what you have received. They may do that out of largess or in support of the teacher who takes no support, “so as not to place an obstacle to the gospel of Christ”, and that is praiseworthy. Having said that, no one has a place to say he or she is entitled to free faith formation. That right does not exist.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

A church and a school are two different entities. One is the Bride of Christ! The foundation and cornerstone of Truth! The place where the Holy Mass takes place and Our Lord is truly present!

Pardon the exclamation points, but really, it’s important to know the profound difference here. (Which I’m sure you do, and I understand the point you were making. I just don’t want to sully the Church with a comparison to a charter school.)

Firstly, many parishes make it a requirement to have some amount of faith formation in order to receive a Sacrament. Sure, there may be loopholes for someone who knows their rights well, but we can all agree that these options are not advertised for those who do not. (Although some have pointed out that someone who doesn’t know that they can bypass the DRE isn’t worthy of receiving the Sacrament in the first place. I will happily disagree.) As I demonstrated in a previous post, offering financial aid is an impediment to those who are too embarrassed or ashamed to ask.

Secondly, requiring families to volunteer in order to receive instruction in the Faith so that they may have access to the Sacraments is wrong as well. What if a family cannot provide their time or money?

That is why tithing is not a requirement. What I mean by that, is that the Church doesn’t stop you at the door and require you to put in your money before coming in. It is between us and God what we can give. Some may have nothing. Some may have a lot. The Church can make recommendations (like, please consider giving for our new roof, etc.) and guide us in making decisions in how much to give considering our individual incomes, but it is not a fee taken at the door in order to enter and attend Mass or go to Confession.

with your logic…ie. We shouldn’t make people ask for a waiver…and we should require time then…what if they can’t provide their time or money.

If that’s the case then we shouldn’t put barriers to communion…I mean what if I don’t have the time to go to confession… I would be too embarrassed… You could rattle excuse after excuse…

If these family’s don’t put their childs spiritual welfare above their pride…then what makes us think those children will receive any nurishment at home to continue their faith?

And yes…I’ve had to deal with this as a child…with free lunch programs and such because we didn’t have much money.

I’m willing to bet that a family that was volunteering some time would easily have their fees waived if they couldn’t afford it.

But all too often you have the families with the nice cars or houses…that complain about the fees…you can tell where there priorities are. Not all the time…but a good portion are.

 

[MelbaTozt]

It is one thing to say it is to be hoped faith formation can be offered for free. It is quite another to imply that there is any right to receive instruction in the faith for free. To the contrary, although Paul did not charge for his preaching, he made it clear that it was within his rights as an Apostle to be supported by the Gospel:

*My defense against those who would pass judgment on me is this. Do we not have the right to eat and drink? Do we not have the right to take along a Christian wife, as do the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? Or is it only myself and Barnabas who do not have the right not to work?

Who ever serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating its produce? Or who shepherds a flock without using some of the milk from the flock? Am I saying this on human authority, or does not the law also speak of these things? It is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain*.” Is God concerned about oxen, or is he not really speaking for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope, and the thresher in hope of receiving a share. If we have sown spiritual seed for you, is it a great thing that we reap a material harvest from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more?

**Yet we have not used this right. **On the contrary, we endure everything so as not to place an obstacle to the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who perform the temple services eat [what] belongs to the temple, and those who minister at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the gospel should live by the gospel. 1 Cor. 9:3-14

If you receive the spiritual seed, Paul teaches that the sower of that seed has a right to expect to reap a material harvest. You do not have a right to expect the rest of the faithful to pick up the tab for what you have received. They may do that out of largess or in support of the teacher who takes no support, “so as not to place an obstacle to the gospel of Christ”, and that is praiseworthy. Having said that, no one has a place to say he or she is entitled to free faith formation. That right does not exist.

I’m not saying it’s a “right.” None of us have any rights to receive any of God’s grace! I’m saying that Christ’s intent was that the Faith and His Sacraments would not come with a price tag.

I believe everything else you wrote falls in line with donations and tithing – and not inflicting mandatory fees onto the flock. Is that what you got from it? Given your argument, would you favor the parish sending each and every parishioner a bill for services rendered? Why or why not?

 

[MelbaTozt]

Again, I would like to know if you are charging my bishop, as well as any number of other bishops with simony? Because that seems to be a pretty big charge on an awful lot of people.

You might contact Jimmy Akin about that. It’s his quote. I don’t know who your bishop is or what he has instructed your parish to do. I do know that Bishops can implement bad policies and/or priests can implement bad policies that are contrary to the Teachings of the Church.

I’m just trying to understand this issue better and am realizing that I need to talk to better authorities on the matter.

 

[jmcrae]

You might contact Jimmy Akin about that. It’s his quote. I don’t know who your bishop is or what he has instructed your parish to do. I do know that Bishops can implement bad policies and/or priests can implement bad policies that are contrary to the Teachings of the Church.

What about Jimmy Akin himself, though? He charges people hundreds and hundreds of dollars to attend his lectures, which are on the subject of very basic precepts of the faith. Should he also be charged with simony?

I really don’t think he is saying what you think he is saying - I don’t think he opposes for people to preach the Gospel and be allowed to be paid for it. Otherwise, no preacher of the Gospel would survive more than a week - they would all starve to death.

 

[KarenElissa]

You might contact Jimmy Akin about that. It’s his quote. I don’t know who your bishop is or what he has instructed your parish to do. I do know that Bishops can implement bad policies and/or priests can implement bad policies that are contrary to the Teachings of the Church.

I’m just trying to understand this issue better and am realizing that I need to talk to better authorities on the matter.

That may be his quote, but you are using it to support your stance, which as far as I can tell, is the same, that charging for RE constitutes simony.

Since all the parishes I looked at charge for RE, I would assume that our bishop knows. And since as far as I can tell from talking to people here, most parishes across the country are charging for RE, so I would assume their bishops also know.

I don’t think it is a good idea to go around accusing out bishops, the teachers of the faith, of such a serious sin as that of simony.

 

[Edward_H]

What sacred object is truly be sold where?

And what is that poster who knows this for a fact doing about it? Posting about it isn’t going to stop it.

And if they can’t pony up evidence, they should not use the word simony.

There’s way too much sensational use of terminology in these forums lately, just to make a point.