Spouse Standards

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Oh sure, I forget that not everyone speaks a second language like me 🙂 Sorry. Google translate communication is difficult, I have done it for language I don’t speak well.

My wife already was on the path to become Catholic before I proposed to her, and I knew she really wanted to become Catholic.

I will pray for you that you find the person that God has prepared for you.

In Christ,
Tim
 
Basically:

Gotta be a devout Catholic who want to stay at home, cook, clean, take care of kids (gotta want lot of kids). Needs to be good with finances and willing to do that stuff because I suck at it. I’ll make the money and she can spend it. Making appointments and schedules because again, I suck at it and dont want to do it.

Gotta see eye go eye sexually, not going to go innto that though. Too personal.

She needs to be willing to let me be in charge of disciplining the kids (I believe in corporal punishment) and deciding who and when they can be friends with, date, etc.

Gotta be cool with taking a support role instead of a leadership role. None of this equal partners stuff. I want her to be good at things I’m not good and not worry about things I’m good at.

Also id prefer if shes smart enough to keep up but not as smart as me.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Also id prefer if shes smart enough to keep up but not as smart as me.
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My wife is smarter than I in some areas, I am smarter than hers in others - it works out to be fairly even in the grand scheme of things. In the process of this, i have discovered that few things are better than a woman with a sharp wit and a stunning intellect. I find it compelling and exhilarating.
 
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Hmm, I would not have guessed ENTj for you. But maybe! I see nothing to eliminate it as a possible type for you.

I am interested in Socionics. That is a Russian personality theory also based on Jung, using the same 4-letters for 16 types as the popular MBTI system. [The last letter is lower cause in this personality type system.] One thing that I find particularly interesting about this system - which is better researched, WAY more fascinating and accurate (that also uses a 3 letter name, and nicknames) - is that each of the 16 types, with each of the other 16 types, makes a different relationship type. And a LOT can be said, that is quite accurate, about each of these relationship types [what goes right, what goes wrong, what is best to avoid in order to keep peace].

The relationship types range from the Identical [all letters are the same] (you get along easily but you are both hopeless at the same problems) to the Conflicting [all letters are different] (you are attracted at first, but the more time you are together and doing things, the more you fight, and it only gets worse and worse). And then a whole range of 14 other relationship types in between [including 2 “uneven” ones, Benefit and Supervision, where it is worse for one than the other, and particularly bad for the Supervisee in Supervision, which is the most psychologically damaging relationship position of all, as the Supervisor harps on the Supervisee’s weak points all the time, trying to make him/her into a “normal” person…

I discovered Socionics after I fell for my husband, hard, when out of town (and we began writing, and God had confirmed to me that it was “okay” for me to not be able to make this “in love” go away, and I felt my now-husband felt the same, but, he was not one to say it yet, I just sensed it (it was way too soon for declarations anyway).

So I was searching - I will call him"George" - not his name - to read about George’s MBTI personality type - I have studied this much and I am good at it, so, I KNEW what his type was. Really I was doing this as a way to intensify and speed up my getting to know George, because I knew this was really something, though, honestly, I really wondered WHY, because there were a LOT of things he did not fit on my unwritten list of wants - like, real solid financial standing! and more! So, in my MBTI research, I stumbled on Socionics, and reading how the types together made the 16 different relationship types, I thought, “I wonder what George (not his real name]'s type and my types are like together?” So I found this chart:

Socionics Relationship Type Chart

And i found my ENFp type [we are sometimes called “The Psychologist”, and we are good at typing] and George’s type “The Craftsman” and the chart says “Dlt” so I looked below, and that means Duality, and I clinked on the link and got this description:

description of Relationships of Duality

[Continued in part 2 of 3 below]
 
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[Part 2 of 3]

Yes, so as you can see in the link at the end of the above post, we it the jackpot of all relationship types, and I finally I knew why God did this to me. It really has been like they say, all the conflict (but not painful conflict) in the beginning, to the point where we are basically conflict-free 3 and a half years into marriage.

We can argue sometimes, but its never painful or threatening to either of us. I love coming home to him after a stressful day at work,. It really does take less then 30 minutes of being in the same room with him until I feel calm and trouble-free. Just like they say of Duals:

“7. The leveling of dual energy. This phenomenon appears almost immediately. The duals should just to be together, just to seat close by, sometimes even without touching each other. The maximum term for leveling of dual energy – 40 minutes (it is a result of investigation) and after that duals renew their energy. It does not depend on the depth of the “energy hole”.”

That quote is from the following article: Experiencing Dual Relations

And it describes exactly how it is with my husband and I - and all Duals.

That website, by the way is by an ENTj, about Socionics. So Lillian, if you are ENTj, your Dual is ISFj. Duals are always different on the first 3 letters and same on last. SO it really is like opposites attract, as they say, but the last letter has a lot to do with how easy it is to live and share your lives together.

So, Lady Lillian, here is a description of an ENTj female. If you still think that could be your type, here is one description of a here is a description of a male ISFj who would be your Dual if you have your type right.

Duality is the ideal so it is the most written about. Of course, the MOST important thing for compatibility is to have common values and goals. My husband and I do have that, our Catholic faith and family values being at the top for us both. We both had previous marriages that were a fail and circumstances around those failures were very trying psychologically for both of us - but Dual Relations are the most psychologically healing relationship types of all types, and God knew what we needed and I feel blessed all the time over this…

And other relationship types can be successful too, of course, especially with work and commitment. I have friends that are Supervisor/Supervisee and I can see the predictable struggles of my Supervisee friend, however, they both have strong Catholic values, strong commitment, a Catholic marriage, so sacramental graces, and they receive Jesus in the Eucharist a lot and also Adoration. So grace makes up for a LOT in these relationships that are naturally less-easy!

But these relationship types are a reality, I am fully convinced.

[continued in part 3 of 3, below]
 
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[part 3 or 3]

In fact, as I read this thread’s replies (I got halfway) and read what Xanthippe_Voorhees had to say of her husband and their marriage, I’d say it looks a lot like Duality to me. I can narrow it down further, that of the 8 Dual Pairs, they are one of the “j” pairs, so that narrows it down to four of the 8 Dual pairs!
Xanthippe can check this write-up of the 8 dual pairs and see if she thinks one describes them (she should start reading the 4 “-XXXj” pairs first). I would be interestied in knowing Xanthippe if you do think you and your husband are Duals, and if you know which, which. [LadyLillian, you can look up ENTj-ISFj on that link and see what you think.]

I have to warn you that most of the Socionics articles are translations, and some not good translations. I plow through them anyway! The above article uses “he” for both of the Duals; sometimes i rewrite a pair description by changing one of the pair to “she”, as appropriate, to make it easier to read.

Well, its a whole lot of info, on a subject I have studied in great detail over the years, following a thorough understanding over years of learning MBTI. Too much info for some, but some here may find it interesting. And some of what you wrote on your list, Lillian, made me think that Duality is exactly what you are looking for. Especially finding someone who loves you JUST how you are. That’s your Dual. And conversation between the two of you will always be interesting, because you won’t ever stop finding each other basically interesting. So for anyone who is looking for a spouse, this is useful information. If you know what your Dual is like, you can be sure to give one who seems he/she could be it an extra chance as you are getting to know him/her, because if they are your Dual the relations will soon become compelling. I think knowing about this helps, so you do’t turn your back on a Dual, but give them a second chance. If you are the Introvert, you will somehow have to signal your interest, or just find SOME way to interact with your Dual so you can be noticed. Your Dual will be enchanted, if you just are yourself.
 
By the looks of the long list I think it would most likely be a subconscious list of standards and you would naturally be looking for someone with those attributes. When in love and swept off your feet you won’t have time to check them off the list anyway!
And I don’t think anyone actively looks for someone who’s a gambler or an addict so it goes without saying.
I have one question though, if most of your standards were checked off the list would you be able to live with something that isn’t? Say, different views on dietary lifestyle or has different hobbies???
 
I see. A Filipina who studied finance and worked as a secretary for a bit. 😉

(I wrote this before the person who posted the picture.)
 
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Eliza10 said:
I am interested in Socionics. That is a Russian personality theory also based on Jung, using the same 4-letters for 16 types as the popular MBTI system. [The last letter is lower cause in this personality type system.] One thing that I find particularly interesting about this system - which is better researched, WAY more fascinating and accurate (that also uses a 3 letter name, and nicknames) - is that each of the 16 types, with each of the other 16 types, makes a different relationship type. And a LOT can be said, that is quite accurate, about each of these relationship types [what goes right, what goes wrong, what is best to avoid in order to keep peace].
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How fascinating! I will look into this!
 
ccampbell1 said:
I have one question though, if most of your standards were checked off the list would you be able to live with something that isn’t? Say, different views on dietary lifestyle or has different hobbies???
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Yes, very much so!

No, I don’t think people look for that either. 🙂 Though sometimes you find out someone has a gambling problem months into a relationship.

Yes, I could be happy with him having just about any diet he wishes, as long as we can work out a way to live together/cook together, considering I am vegetarian. And I would welcome it if he had hobbies distinct from mine, as long as we had one or two things we really enjoyed doing together.
 
How does this look as the condensed version of the complete list?
  1. Free to marry (ex. Not priest or divorced without annulment)
  2. Baptized Catholic
  3. Fervent, convicted believer in the Catholic faith
  4. Sees the Sacraments as gifts rather than obligations
  5. Has an established prayer life
  6. Possesses a love and belief for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament
  7. Is fluent in a language I am fluent in
  8. Is not living a criminal lifestyle
  9. No current addiction to drugs, alcohol or gambling
  10. Is someone I feel safe spending time with
  11. Maintains cleanliness
  12. Maintains freshness (ex. Addresses body odor and foul breath)
  13. Non-smoker or smoker willing to smoke only far away from me and his kids
  14. Wants to live a modern life (electricity, technology, hospital births, etc.)
  15. Close to my age range (within mutual comfort)
  16. Free of certain painful diseases, esp those transferred in birth (case specific)
  17. Free of certain diseases that would prohibit bonding (case specific)
  18. Can be at peace with some domestic disorganization
  19. Willing to use a budget and shop practically overall
  20. Life is not overrun by debts
  21. Willing to live in a cooler climate if feasible
  22. Open to adoption
  23. Willing to practice Natural Family Planning
  24. Is happy living with the pets I own at the time of our marriage, assuming health, housing and finances allows
  25. Open to utilizing schedules and fore-planning in some areas of our daily life
  26. We have reached an agreement about dietary arrangements/cooking
  27. Approaches significant decisions with a discerning heart and willingness to consider pertinent, honorable counsel
  28. Serves the needy
  29. Does not view or treat the poor or minorities as being inferior or evil
  30. Does not explode in anger
  31. Values taking time for recreation and rejuvenation
  32. Does not excessively nag or complain
  33. Some similar hobbies
  34. Is willing to do some entertaining at home
  35. Is not obsessed with external appearance
  36. Can communicate clearly
  37. Avoids trash talking others socially
  38. Holds no moral opposition to women wearing pants
  39. Holds no moral opposition to women having short hair
  40. Gentle
  41. Tender
  42. Respectful
  43. Loyal
  44. Honest in commitments and promises
  45. Builds me up
  46. Competent (ex. I can trust him with the baby, household tasks, etc.)
  47. Compassionate
  48. Generous towards the needy
  49. Confidential with secrets shared in confidence
  50. Believer in gender equality
 
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  1. Would not leave a marriage because of sexual dissatisfaction
  2. Does not dominate my heart (demand obedience, submission, reporting, etc.)
  3. I am drawn towards being with him
  4. Has become a close friend of mine prior to Courtship
  5. Has formally Defined The Relationship as Courting with me
  6. Carefully, slowly discerns our relationship: in prayer, with me, with the insight of third-parties, with resources (ex. FOCCUS test)
  7. Honors my body
  8. Honors my femininity
  9. Loves me despite my past and quirks
  10. Willing to forgo receiving oral sex in marriage
  11. Willing to forgo sexual acts that are humiliating, alarming or painful for his wife in marriage (ex. Certain BDSM aspects)
  12. We can have positive, multi-hour conversations
  13. Has an understanding of our individual and coupled responses to negative emotions
  14. We have experienced healthy conflict resolution
  15. Inspires me to be a better person/Christian/neighbor
  16. Is willing to be co-leaders in our relationship
  17. Prioritizes my physical and mental wellbeing over creating new children or adopting embryos
  18. Prioritizes giving children access to a great academic education (ex. No unschooling)
  19. Prioritizes providing quality child care (home or otherwise) to his young children
  20. Willing to give kids academic and cultural growth opportunities as is feasible (for ex: ACT prep, competitions, clubs, hobby lessons)
  21. Dedicated to being present in his children’s lives
  22. Believer in positive parenting
  23. Believer in allowing children freedom and self-expression when safe and legal
  24. Opposed to corporal punishment of children and animals
  25. Strongly desires to raise his children in the Catholic Church
 
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I still think a lot of this is common sense, personally. Like number one. I mean, yeah, hopefully you’re not trying to marry a priest. 🙂 Some strike me as just odd: number 38, for example. Do you actually encounter people who think it is immoral for women to wear pants? Are they time travelers from the days of Little House on the Prairie?

51 gives me some pause. I mean, yes, that’s a very reasonable expectation, but it seems like you’re expecting sexual dissatisfaction. If you have a libido that is outside the normal range (either very high or very low), I would definitely discuss that with anyone you’re discerning marriage with. That kind of disconnect can be a ticking time bomb.

By the way, as far as the oral sex stuff, please understand that I’m not suggesting you have any obligation to do anything sexually you find distressing. I’d just say that you should allow for the possibility that you might feel differently about certain things in the context of a loving marriage as opposed to considering it in the abstract.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Basically:

Gotta be a devout Catholic who want to stay at home, cook, clean, take care of kids (gotta want lot of kids). Needs to be good with finances and willing to do that stuff because I suck at it. I’ll make the money and she can spend it. Making appointments and schedules because again, I suck at it and dont want to do it.

Gotta see eye go eye sexually, not going to go innto that though. Too personal.

She needs to be willing to let me be in charge of disciplining the kids (I believe in corporal punishment) and deciding who and when they can be friends with, date, etc.

Gotta be cool with taking a support role instead of a leadership role. None of this equal partners stuff. I want her to be good at things I’m not good and not worry about things I’m good at.

Also id prefer if shes smart enough to keep up but not as smart as me.
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Be very careful. I’m not saying this is you, but I’ve seen a lot of young men particularly who have expectations like yours. It almost never ends well. It’s almost always a defense mechanism: they tend to be very introverted and intellectual, and have difficulty approaching flesh and blood women. So they create some list that excludes 99.99999% of women on the planet, and rationalize their single-ness as “Well, it’s not that I’m too shy to approach ladies. It’s that no lady is capable of matching my genius!” The last item particularly makes me think you’re falling into that trap.

Also, ask yourself honestly if you’re bringing the same level of desirability to the table. If the only woman worth your time is a Victoria’s Secret model who is happy doing your laundry, making your schedule, and attending to your sexual needs, well…are you a brain surgeon with a shredded physique?
 
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Not at the same levels as sexual arousal/orgasm or breast feeding.
 
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