Sspx

[nbjayme]

Then we have the SSPX. Cannonically, there is not much difference between them. They want to put themselves higher then the Church and from that, fall.

The Church means ‘Ekklesia’.

Was St. Athanasius ever outside the Church when he was excommunicated?

What did St. Athanasius justified that he and his flock have the True Church … the FAITH.

Also, please read the previous postings… SSPX is an internal matter. Far from it of being schismatic.

 

[SFD]

claudius:

The schismatic churches that do have bishops are in a special situations as they do have bishops but they are in a deficient state. They do not hold the complete Christian faith as taught to us by Lord Jesus and repeated by his Holy Church.

claudius,

They (schismatics) are outside the Church as well…no different than heretics are outside.
Pope Pius XII:

1. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” [17] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. [18] And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered – so the Lord commands – as a heathen and a publican. [19] It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.

SFD

 

[nbjayme]

Life of St. Athanasius.

We do not know for sure whether Athanasius ordained bishops for these orthodox communities faced with hostile heterodox bishops, or only priests and deacons. Socrates’s account in his Ecclesiastical History is obscure, stating only that “in some of the churches also he performed ordination, which afforded another ground of accusation against him, because of his undertaking to ordain in the dioceses of others.”

In his Ecclesiastical History, Sozomen wrote of Athanasius’s ejection of Arianizing clergy when he returned to Egypt from his second exile around 346, and added, “It was said at that time that, when he was traveling through other countries, he effected the same change if he happened to visit churches which were under the Arians. He was certainly accused of having dared to perform the ceremony of ordination in cities where he had no right to do so.”

 

[nbjayme]

There is no modernist church. There is the One Holy Catholic Church, which you are in or out. The vicar and protector of the Church is Pope Benedict XVI, who succeded Pope John Paul II.

Really??? and TLM ? and non-organic NO??? Go settle that with RyanML

At no time was Lefebvre chosen to have the authority of that postition, thanks be to God.

In no amount of ambition does Marcel Lefebvre want to be treated a Pope. Read his citations… He was simply a Catholic Bishop doing his duty to God… same with St. Athanasius.

 

[nbjayme]

"May God console you! … What saddens you … is the fact that others have occupied the churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises – but you have the Apostolic Faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the Faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in the struggle – the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the Faith? True, the premises are good when the Apostolic Faith is preached there; they are holy if everything takes place there in a holy way …

"You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.

“Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.”

St. Athanasius

 

[nbjayme]

oneGODoneCHURCH,

Surrendering the True Faith of the Church, for convenience sake, is false humility.

Read Post #76 please…

 

[nbjayme]

but that choice of freewill is indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit…man alone can not by his own freewill truly repent in the eyes of God.sincere contrition is not of man but of God the Holy Spirit,in conjunction of man’s freewill…

The same inspiration of the Holy Spirit does not move the hardened of heart.

Read the Bible pleeez,

That is why God calls people to “Repent” because it is in “your prerogative” to repent not His own powe nor one of His gifts.

The Holy Spirit can however “preserve one from sinning.”

St. John the Baptist, Blessed Virgin Mary, etc.

 

[RyanML]

Really??? and TLM ? and non-organic NO??? Go settle that with RyanML

In no amount of ambition does Marcel Lefebvre want to be treated a Pope. Read his citations… He was simply a Catholic Bishop doing his duty to God… same with St. Athanasius.

Hey I thought I was out of this discussion.

 

[Auntie_M]

You know you are talking about Saint Pius X, the last Pope to be canonized in over 100 years.
The great defender of Church Orthodoxy who tried to warn the Church about the synthesis of all heresies. The same Modernism that would destroy the Church later that century. The great Pope of the Eucharist who instituted so many great reforms for the benefit of Catholicism.

Yes, I do know who I am talking about. I gave you the reference book (from your local library), a book with the Nihil Obstat but here’s another one, “Lives of the Popes” by Richard P. McBrien which does not carry the Nihil Obstat but tells approximately the same things. (copyright 1997)

Pope Pius X, with his “Oath against Moderism” , the overall effect on Catholic Scholarship was devasting-a blow from which the church did not soon recover. It discouraged Catholic scholars from pursuing new lines of inquiry in their teaching and from publishing the results of their research, and at the same time encouraged more fanatical elements in the Church to declare a kind of war on theologians and biblical scholars who did not toe the conservative line.

It is interesting that it was Benedict XV that declared an end to the internecine conflict within the church and had this oath recinded.

Pius did alot of good, but also did alot of harm. The way the SSPX describes Pius X is not the whole truth. (Pius XII canonized 33 persons during his pontificate, including Pius X, so Pius X was not just singled out as the only one.)

I hope this helps.

 

[RyanML]

Really??? and TLM ? and non-organic NO??? Go settle that with RyanML

Hey, I thought I was out of the discussion But you are right about the lack of organic development with the New Rite. Pope Benedict XVI admits this. And we would have to admit that the “non-organic” nature of the Mass of Paul VI would indeed be a break with Catholic tradition.

 

[pnewton]

Uncharitable statements from you pnewton. Read the discourse of Archbishop Lefebvre… it’s was not only about the TLM…

All for my opinion. Yet you have the audacity in your next post to state.

pnewton,

Do you have even a conscience to assert false claims…
and yet you consider yourself to be part of the Church…
Must you present lies to forward your cause?

Many people who post here have a difficult time separating opinion from fact. But if you think I posted uncharitably, use the function provided to report me rather than continue to slander me.

The biggest reason why the SSPX has the reputation it has are the SSPX members themselves. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.

 

[saint_rafael]

Pope Pius X, with his “Oath against Moderism” , the overall effect on Catholic Scholarship was devasting-a blow from which the church did not soon recover. It discouraged Catholic scholars from pursuing new lines of inquiry in their teaching and from publishing the results of their research, and at the same time encouraged more fanatical elements in the Church to declare a kind of war on theologians and biblical scholars who did not toe the conservative line.

It is interesting that it was Benedict XV that declared an end to the internecine conflict within the church and had this oath recinded.

The Oath against Modernism was a great decision from Pope Pius X. Of coarse it had a devastating blow against so called “Catholic scholarship”. He tried to kick out all the heretics. It was a beautiful oath that sent all the heretics running.

The Biblical scholars wre trying to push their abominations into the Church. They were trying to turn the Bible into a book of myths full of allegory, myth, stories and stripping it of anything supernatural. They didn’t believe in the divinity of Jesus, hated miracles, and mocked revelation.

The Oath against Modernism was done away with by Pope Paul VI in the 60’s, and not by Pope Benedict.
Fr. Malachi Martin said that even in the 60’s the clergymen were laughing over the Oath because most of them did not have the faith.

It was a mistake to get rid of such a great protection for the Church and it was such a great confirmation of dogma.

 

[SFD]

Yes, I do know who I am talking about. I gave you the reference book (from your local library), a book with the Nihil Obstat but here’s another one, “Lives of the Popes” by Richard P. McBrien which does not carry the Nihil Obstat but tells approximately the same things. (copyright 1997)

Richard McBrien? One need not say any more.
Auntie M:

Pope Pius X, with his “Oath against Moderism” , the overall effect on Catholic Scholarship was devasting-a blow from which the church did not soon recover. It discouraged Catholic scholars from pursuing new lines of inquiry in their teaching and from publishing the results of their research, and at the same time encouraged more fanatical elements in the Church to declare a kind of war on theologians and biblical scholars who did not toe the conservative line.

It is interesting that it was Benedict XV that declared an end to the internecine conflict within the church and had this oath recinded.

This is fantasy. The “Congregation for the doctrine of the Faith” rescinded it in 1967 under Paul VI.
Auntie M:

Pius did alot of good, but also did alot of harm. The way the SSPX describes Pius X is not the whole truth. (Pius XII canonized 33 persons during his pontificate, including Pius X, so Pius X was not just singled out as the only one.)

He did harm to the Modernists. Do you realise that you must give your assent to all that is contained in encyclical letters? Here is Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis:
Humani Generis:

1. Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me”;[3] and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the same Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.

AuntieM:

I hope this helps.

I hope this helps.

“Fifthly, I hold with certainty and sincerely confess that faith is not a blind sentiment of religion welling up from the depths of the subconscious under the impulse of the heart and the motion of a will trained to morality; but faith is a genuine assent of the intellect to truth received by hearing from an external source. By this assent, because of the authority of the supremely truthful God, we believe to be true that which has been revealed and attested to by a personal God, our Creator and Lord.”

SFD

 

[nbjayme]

All for my opinion. Yet you have the audacity in your next post to state.

A wrong opinion repeated many times in the presence of facts is no longer an opinion but defamation.

Many people who post here have a difficult time separating opinion from fact.

We’ve been telling you that all along. Now read history and Marcel Lefebvre’s address … and be in touch with reality.

But if you think I posted uncharitably, use the function provided to report me rather than continue to slander me.

Why would I slander? It’s not us doing it. Review your post and you’ll know what slander means.

The biggest reason why the SSPX has the reputation it has are the SSPX members themselves. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.

I think the facts can explain themselves. Who keep on insisting wrong information here and even have the audacity to conclude what Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre thinks without going through his citations?

 

[saint_rafael]

I gave you the reference book (from your local library), a book with the Nihil Obstat but here’s another one, “Lives of the Popes” by Richard P. McBrien which does not carry the Nihil Obstat but tells approximately the same things. (copyright 1997)

Richard McBrien is a Judas priest who is a notorious heretic. That man is not Catholic in any sense.

 

[nbjayme]

Richard McBrien is a Judas priest who is a notorious heretic. That man is not Catholic in any sense.

No, no no no they’re not heretics … they’re “Catholic scholars.”



What do we expect? … V2 supporters cannot even agree among themselves and reviewing the posts will reveal how they underplay the real meaning of the words…

Auntie M,

A “Catholic Scholar” is a person who upheld the Teaching of the Church.

A person can be considered Catholic, but only by name. Yet it is the Faith that makes us part of the Catholic church. St. Athanasius is a Catholic by Faith and heart while the others still call themselves Catholic yet void of the Faith – a Catholic by name only.

 

[ProVobis]

Is the Anglican church inside or outside? Is the Luthern church inside or outside? The answer prior to Vatican II would be a straightfoward no.

Not that straightforward. You need to read your Baltimore Catechism on this.

 

[SFD]

Not that straightforward. You need to read your Baltimore Catechism on this.

These churches are NOT anything but outside. If you think the Baltimore Catechism says otherwise, then quote that section.

SFD

Originally Posted by Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis
22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” [17] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. [18] And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered – so the Lord commands – as a heathen and a publican. [19] It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.

 

[nbjayme]

The Church is Body — Eclessia.

Lutheran Church —> different body —> outside the Catholic Church.

Any member infected by the “Yeast” of the Lutheran Teaching have fallen from the Light of God. Read St. Paul’s discourse of how even a small yeast can affect the whole lump.

 

[pnewton]

Why would I slander? It’s not us doing it. Review your post and you’ll know what slander means.

Accusing people of lying, like you did is wrong. I have the right to state my opinion, even repeatedly. What you say flies in the face of facts, only flies in what you sees as facts, not anything that would be considered factual by anyone outside of this SSPX. Why don’t you get back to the topic and discontinue this fixation with me, unless you want to start another thread? For a new poster, you sure do not hesitate to throw the insults at people.