St. Andrew's Catholic Parish will carry banner in Portland's Pride Parade

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LisaA said:
Really a poorly formed argument EN and you even contradict yourself. I know you can do better. Let’s see if the PERSONAL SINS ARE NONE OF OUR BUSINESS THEN WHY ARE WE TO BE SEEN MARCHING IN A PARADE IN SUPPORT? You simply do not understand that personal sins do not need to be aired in public, nor do they need be affirmed by participating in bragging about our sexual inclinations. I fail to see why anyone thinks their sex life should be a public issue. Maybe you can explain.
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Homosexuality became a public issue when laws were created, passed, and enforced to prohibit it and discriminate against those with a homosexual orientation. As mentioned, many churches march in Pride Parades, but they aren’t there supporting personal sins. The Pride Parade is not an event to “affirm” gay sex. It is an event to celebrate how far we’ve come from the days when your orientation would get you tossed in a loony bin, ostracized, imprisoned, or worse and a reminder of how far many places in the world have to go. That is what many of the churches which participate in the Parade march in support of; treating gay men and women as human beings and ridding the world of unjust discrimination.
LisaA said:
Further who is talking about ambushing someone?
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It seems to me that your idea of ministering is ambushing someone on the street to point out their sins. I could be wrong. 🤷
LisaA said:
I’ve never heard any Catholic priest or deacon or layperson for that matter “malign and demean” homosexuals.
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I was talking about specific group of people who show up every year. I wasn’t talking about Catholics. I think they’re Evangelicals. Whoever they are, they’re troublemakers.
LisaA said:
Homosexuality is not all that special EN, in fact it’s pretty ordinary. No reason to march and brag about it.
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I think its a mistake to minimize the historical struggle of gay men and women.
 
holyrood said:
The question is: do they equate ‘welcomed’ with ‘behavior condoned?’
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I think this is very good question because I do think subconsciously people see welcoming as condoning if there are no qualifications made.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Homosexuality became a public issue when laws were created, passed, and enforced to prohibit it and discriminate against those with a homosexual orientation. As mentioned, many churches march in Pride Parades, but they aren’t there supporting personal sins.
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I would argue that the churches that are there don’t consider gay sex a sin. Let’s forget about Catholic churches for a moment. Do you hear about Evangelical churches marching in gay pride parades?
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

Please let’s not make this another 1,000 post thread discussing homosexuality or other religions. Stay on the topic of the original post.
 
Lucky7 said:
I think this is very good question because I do think subconsciously people see welcoming as condoning if there are no qualifications made.
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Well, I think some clergy and lay people alike approach this from the perspective that the doctrine is not necessarily the issue in getting LGBT people into the pews, but rather the perception among LGBT people that Catholics are unwelcoming and unkind. If 8 in 10 LGBT people do not feel welcome in a Catholic Church, as the PEW survey in the OP indicates, then there is clearly a problem and something is responsible for that perception. Presence at a Pride event is just taking a different approach to reverse that perception.
 
PLEASE remember: Bishop Sample (while at Marquette) is the prelate who refused to allow a retired auxiliary bishop into his diocese to give a seminar on peace and justice issues because the auxiliary bishop was known to openly promote homosexuality.

Bishop Sample protected the flock then and there is no reason to think he will not do so now.
 
For those who see nothing wrong with this, I’d like to ask you: Exactly what do you think the “Pride Parade” is celebrating being proud of?
 
Tigg said:
PLEASE remember: Bishop Sample (while at Marquette) is the prelate who refused to allow a retired auxiliary bishop into his diocese to give a seminar on peace and justice issues because the auxiliary bishop was known to openly promote homosexuality.

Bishop Sample protected the flock then and there is no reason to think he will not do so now.
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Yes, word on the street is that he was chosen for his strong and orthodox stance on matters of grave sin. I am just sorry that his early experience with some Portland’s Parishes was contentious rather than cooperative. I hope it is not discouraging.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Yes this is the point. Homosexuals seem to want to “have their cake and eat it too.” That everyone is a child of God, to be loved and treated with charity is simply not enough for them. They want to have their behavior accepted as the equivalent of man/woman traditional marriage.
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And that’s where they fall away from logic. They want their relationship to be the equivalent of the very thing they reject. That’s confusion.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Homosexuality became a public issue when laws were created, passed, and enforced to prohibit it and discriminate against those with a homosexual orientation. As mentioned, many churches march in Pride Parades, but they aren’t there supporting personal sins. The Pride Parade is not an event to “affirm” gay sex. It is an event to celebrate how far we’ve come from the days when your orientation would get you tossed in a loony bin, ostracized, imprisoned, or worse and a reminder of how far many places in the world have to go. That is what many of the churches which participate in the Parade march in support of; treating gay men and women as human beings and ridding the world of unjust discrimination.

It seems to me that your idea of ministering is ambushing someone on the street to point out their sins. I could be wrong. 🤷

I was talking about specific group of people who show up every year. I wasn’t talking about Catholics. I think they’re Evangelicals. Whoever they are, they’re troublemakers.

I think its a mistake to minimize the historical struggle of gay men and women.
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As someone has already pointed out, the Church’s position on Same Sex Attraction is quite clear. Further it is also clear that in cooperating with those engaged in sin, you become complicit in the sin. A public display by a Catholic parish in a gay pride parade is not only confusing but scandalous because it leads those unfamiliar with the Catholic Church to believe homosexual sex is just another lifestyle. It’s rather like certain outspoken Catholic politicians who defend abortion. People who don’t understand the Church’s consistent life ethic are confused and scandalized by this untenable position.

If the “pride” parade were not focused solely on sexual orientation, but on the opening of minds and hearts to different ethinic groups or religions or abilities, you might have a leg to stand on and the Church which has always stood up for the marginalized and powerless might well march in support. But there is nothing being celebrated but the ability to publically proclaim that you either engage in or support homosexual activity
I am sure the Parish means well but they are clearly misunderstanding the message being sent. The Church’s actual position is very consistent and charitable. I wish there were more focus on what the Church actually teaches with respect to persons with Same Sex Attraction, rather than the confusing message marching in a “Pride” parade will send.

Lisa
 
I pray that Bishop Sample will use this event, and act of disobedience, as a teaching moment to educate the Faithful in His care once again of the teachings of Holy Mother Church. re-educating Catholics is the key to many of these issues. Poor Catechesis over the past several decades has made it easier for the Faithful to be misled. For those who remain obstinate in their decisions to go against The Church, may God have mercy on their souls. The Church is in the business of Salvation and protection of the Faithful. Not yielding to every immoral whim concocted by man and satan.

Gospel According to Saint Mark; Ch. 6
“[11] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you; going forth from thence, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony to them. [12] And going forth they preached that men should do penance: [13] And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.”

Our Lord was very clear from the beginning of His ministry that many would not hear, many would not believe. All we can do is pray for them, and work out our Salvation in accord with the Church.
 
DaddyGirl said:
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But if they make it very clear that is not why they are marching (which I think they have, yes?), and *they know *that is not why they are marching, and they tell everyone why, exactly, they are marching (have they?)…then they are not “affirming” homosexual activity.
Then, they are doing quite the opposite.
Then they are trying to do something positive for the church and for the religion.
In fact, what they propose to do would bring a lot of positive publicity to the church and their reaching out to the gay community. The reporters on hand would definitely want to mention it in their stories and want to interview those church members who are marching…and in those interviews, they can reach people.
This is the BIGGER PICTURE. Worry about how it might look to some people, for example, would be a petty concern compared to what they can accomplish.
It would actually be very, very smart of them to do this…

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Oh, please.
 
It’s bad of course, but I don’t know why people are so surprised that individual Churches can go against Church teaching on moral matters when, for example, the Feeneyites of the Saint Benedict Center are able to go around spreading material heresy defying to Council of Trent by denying the Baptisms of Desire and Blood?
 
It seems odd that they’d use the parish as a whole to represent them. Among younger Catholics, support for same-sex marriage is through the roof, into the stratosphere and making its own lunar ghetto handshake with Saturn’s moons…but once you get out of that, it slowly wanes.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Oh, this is wonderful.
If this is why they are marching then it would be very “right” according to the church, for them to march.
The church has said many times recently that it opens its arms to homosexual people and “loves the sinner”…so marching for these reasons, above, would make perfect sense.

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So, how exactly does this “celebrate how far we’ve come from…”:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3377/3627985056_9887a46540.jpg
This is from the first page of Google image results for “Portland pride parade 2012”.
 
gracepoole said:
Didn’t Emperor answer this question in post #81?
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Those with epilepsy were subjected to the same treatment until relatively recently, and are still the object of ridicule in some circles (Ever heard the term “pitching a fit”?). Show me a single “epileptic pride” parade. There isn’t one? Maybe that’s because it was studied for what it is - a disorder - and proper treatments were developed. This is about not just acceptance, but celebration of, a behavior. This is about shouting from the rooftops that they are happy to make what they like to do with their genitals the center of their identity to the point where they see even the most gentle reminder of the Church’s teaching as hate speech, because they see it as opposing their whole identity as a person. Am I maybe projecting here? Possibly. If so, tell me where I’m wrong. Explain to me how men strutting down the streets in corsets, stockings, and briefs is a celebration of them as whole persons - not just their penises.
 
VanSensei said:
It seems odd that they’d use the parish as a whole to represent them. Among younger Catholics, support for same-sex marriage is through the roof, into the stratosphere and making its own lunar ghetto handshake with Saturn’s moons…but once you get out of that, it slowly wanes.
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Was that the Pew Poll?
 
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