St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews

[Elizabeth502]

I was in a discussion once about a man who was ushered from a Catholic Church once due to his smell. Not having smelled him and being young I thought it was awful that anyone should be told to leave the Church.

This has actually been a real problem where I live, when the homeless do wander into our worship space. It hasn’t happened very recently (within the last year), but several years ago it happened with great regularity at the one parish I was attending. This one homeless person kept coming in, and her body odor was so extreme that every time she came in I had no control of my gag reflex, and I began to throw up. That’s how overpowering it was. (Only nobody “ushered her out.”) A couple of other people would leave, too, because they had the same problem I had. We used to leave when the smell became unbearable. Long story short, I eventually had to stop going to that parish simply because Mass was always interrupted for me. Again, like other homeless, she was not there to worship, but to aggressively panhandle (that’s what she did in the pews), and to distract others as much as possible.

I actually had a part in the liturgy, but it I who was forced out by the situation, not the other way around.

Something is wrong with this picture ^ , it seems to me.

 

[BroomWagon]

Soooo wonderful to see a House of God doing God’s work - helping the needy. I hope more Churches follow suit!

I take it if Rescue Missions give people food and shelter, then these people are doing it the same way and for a longer time, much much loooooonger time than these Catholic Churches.

Yes, it’s sooooo wonderful there are House of God’s, you said it, that’s whose house it is.

 

[BroomWagon]

Rome has spoken of this in full.

What is uncharitable about the phrases “pro-war” and “pro-death penalty” (or pro-capital punishment)? These are political positions, like pro-life or pro-choice.

Are you a moral relativist?

All murder is non-negotiable.

What do you mean by that? Of course there’s theology involved. There’s theology involved in many of these issues; I never disputed that theology has something to say about many different political positions.

 

[BroomWagon]

http://thegubbioproject.org/images/shelter_2.jpg

At St. Boniface Church, San Francisco. “Sanctuary of Sleep”
Part of the Gubbio Project.

This story reminded me of Orange County, CA Pastor Wiley Drake of Buena Park, who for a time turned his church grounds into a home for the homeless much to the chagrin of his neighbors.

The City Council fought with him for a while about zoning infractions, and in the 1990’s he actually went to jail for his convictions.

etherzone.com/2001/youn082401.shtml

firstsouthernbaptistchurchofbuenapark.com/the-shelter-2/

Drake is still in Buena Park, has an online TV network, ran for President in 2012 and was arrested again (in front of the White House) protesting the HHS mandates.

As an Orange County guy, I was rather proud to see a fellow Christian going all out for the poor. It was kind of funny (not in a real good way) how some people who loved what Mother Theresa was doing in Calcutta … suddenly saw the wisdom of zoning laws when a similar ministry got too close to their back yards.

I like this story, but must admit there may be problems. Hopefully worship goes on unimpeded.

I was in a discussion once about a man who was ushered from a Catholic Church once due to his smell. Not having smelled him and being young I thought it was awful that anyone should be told to leave the Church.

My “opponent” in the discussion was adamant that people had a right not to be distracted and may even have brought up the parable about the man without a wedding garment being thrown out of the wedding (whereas this man was politely asked to leave).

Part of me reasons that … just as the " Sabbath was made for man … not man for the Sabbath " perhaps too the “Church was made for man … etc.”

The other extreme – of locked up Churches (some in the middle of the daytime!) gives me more of a problem actually. I like that there is “room at the inn” at St. Boniface. It seems like the right priority.

Pastor Drake has had a colorful career … and is of another faith communion … but on the “I was hungry and you fed me …” scale I see the fruits of Christianity and an ally.

His use of imprecatory prayer* (in defense of life and against pro-abortion leaders) gives some pause. And is possibly not in line with Catholic teachings. While that is a little off topic … it may serve as a discernment warning to people looking into Drake. I may not agree with everything he does. Or how he does it … but I do agree with his passion to help the homeless … and the unborn … generally.

• I am not sure if this is a prayer for protection for the unborn with an attendant “remove the enemies of the unborn from power” sentiment (in addition to/instead of?) a prayer for the conversion of the perpetrators of abortion. Like many Drake prays for an end to abortion … at one point particularly praying that the late term abortion clinic run by Dr. Edward Tiller be closed permanently. After Tiller was shot, the clinic was closed. Drake’s quote that “it was an answer to a prayer …” has been interpreted as meaning the clinic is closed by some … or that his prayer was “a curse” against Tiller.

This is not something one hears of much in Catholicism. Although St. Paul did tell the Corinthians this:

In 2 Corinthians Chapter 2 though, Paul speaks to the Corinthians of forgiving a chastised member (the 1 Corinthians 5:5 person?). And the issue is cloudy since Jesus rebuked James and John for wanting to call down fire on some non-believers. A feat however that was performed by Elijah!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiley_Drake

Interesting, yes, actually, we would have to say our Protestant Brothers have been doing this concept for decades now.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Thought Experiment
Posted reply not required

What if Jesus said it was NOT ok to allow homeless to sleep in Church?
Would you still follow Him?

14:7. For the poor you have always with you: and whensoever you will, you may do them good: but me you have not always.

14:8. She hath done what she could: she is come beforehand to anoint my body for the burial.

14:9. Amen, I say to you, wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, that also which she hath done shall be told for a memorial of her.

14:10. And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests, to betray him to them.

 

[Tigg]

This has actually been a real problem where I live, when the homeless do wander into our worship space. It hasn’t happened very recently (within the last year), but several years ago it happened with great regularity at the one parish I was attending. This one homeless person kept coming in, and her body odor was so extreme that every time she came in I had no control of my gag reflex, and I began to throw up. That’s how overpowering it was. (Only nobody “ushered her out.”) A couple of other people would leave, too, because they had the same problem I had. We used to leave when the smell became unbearable. Long story short, I eventually had to stop going to that parish simply because Mass was always interrupted for me. Again, like other homeless, she was not there to worship, but to aggressively panhandle (that’s what she did in the pews), and to distract others as much as possible.

I actually had a part in the liturgy, but it I who was forced out by the situation, not the other way around.

Something is wrong with this picture ^ , it seems to me.

Well, in practical terms it isn’t hard then, to imagine the odor from dozens and dozens of unwashed bodies asleep in the pews. This recalls something in a similar vein a long time ago when a friend joined with a group to deliver hot coffee and sandwiches to the homeless in our downtown area. She said you really had to watch where you stepped as many of them were alcoholics and the sidewalk was often times strewn with vomit. For those thinking St. Boniface is doing a good thing, don’t forget the reality for I seriously doubt that many of us have seen the actual conditions in which these people live.

I would ask you then - for the miracle of the holy action on our altar and the solemness and sacredness in this holy place - dedicated to the worship of God which is HIS due - do you really believe this space used simultaneously for something different (and subject to such impious consequences) to be fitting and worthy for the King of Kings?

 

[BroomWagon]

Okay, our downtown Church here has outreach from St. Vincent de Paul among other things.

If it is safe, I can see Churches in downtown areas helping the poor like this. If there is a problem with crime, I might ponder it a bit more. You can’t control who visits churches, not totally, if there is panhandling going on there, that would be unfortunate.

A lot of us probably have “local” neighborhood-type churches where we would not generally ever run into this.

 

[Lawrence178]

The woman anointing Our Lord with oil that could have been sold for the poor is a great parallel for this.

 

[Another_Mary]

While superficially appearing to be a noble project, there is something quite disturbing about this. That sense of “take off your sandals, you are on holy ground” is missing and I suspect the Transcendent God - The Other, Different and Surpassing One, is being placed on a scale below man himself. I just have a problem with mixing the profane with the holy - The King and Real Presence.

This gets to the heart of what I heard in the audio interview that I posted the link to up topic.

I am posting it again. At around 25 minutes in (you can fast forward) you will hear the woman from the Gubbio Project remark that they want their people to feel that they are just as important as what is going on at the altar.

sfarchdiocese.org/media/radio-new-fy/abn%5Faug05%5F2012%5Ffinal.mp3

I hope I misinterpreted what she said. I hope that in their everyday activity, working inside the church ministering to the homeless, the Gubbio Project people are setting a good example of respect to Our Lord. You can do that while at the same time helping those less fortunate, even if they are non-believers.

 

[CaptFun]

This has actually been a real problem where I live, when the homeless do wander into our worship space. It hasn’t happened very recently (within the last year), but several years ago it happened with great regularity at the one parish I was attending. This one homeless person kept coming in, and her body odor was so extreme that every time she came in I had no control of my gag reflex, and I began to throw up. That’s how overpowering it was. (Only nobody “ushered her out.”) A couple of other people would leave, too, because they had the same problem I had. We used to leave when the smell became unbearable. Long story short, I eventually had to stop going to that parish simply because Mass was always interrupted for me. Again, like other homeless, she was not there to worship, but to aggressively panhandle (that’s what she did in the pews), and to distract others as much as possible.

I actually had a part in the liturgy, but it I who was forced out by the situation, not the other way around.

Something is wrong with this picture ^ , it seems to me.

This can be a tough call. I remember seeing a homeless (relatively young) man on the street outside a Jack in the Box I was going into. He was waiting on a bus stop bench, but didn’t get on when the bus came by. He didn’t seem to be panhandling.

I was moved to give him a small amount ($5) which he seemed to be embarrassed to take. But he did. I went into the Jack in the Box and began to eat my lunch.

He came in and … indoors … uh-oh! It seemed like all the good air in the place disappeared. He seemed to know … and while waiting for his order, he kept walking outside for a bit. I felt so bad for him. But not bad enough to invite him into my van for a ride to my place where he could take a shower and wash his clothes (mea culpa).

I realize that going that far would be fraught with possible peril … but for the person who has fallen down so far he can’t get up … what is there to do but wait till someone helps you?

Another little church near me has a mobile shower/bathroom trailer show up every once in a while where the homeless can take a warm shower. What the homeless sometimes do around here is to “shower” with their clothes on under a cold jet at the state beach designed to wash sand off surfers’ wet suits or swimmers’ feet. Brrr.

St. Boniface may have some attendant problems to deal with in this regard. And may have to make some rules regarding hours and no-nos (like aggressive panhandling on the grounds vs. a passive sign or something); but they’ve gotten the main thing right.

Thanks for your posts Elizabeth.

 

[CaptFun]

Thought Experiment
Posted reply not required

What if Jesus said it was NOT ok to allow homeless to sleep in Church?
Would you still follow Him?

Yes. (HAD he said that … well … a “Christian” follows Christ). But he’d still want us to do something else along the “I was hungry and you fed me …” lines. “I had nowhere to sleep and you made room for me …” isn’t*** technically*** in the Gospel but it might be implied.

And perhaps it WOULD be better if they slept elsewhere. For instance … parish people offering them a spot in their garage or spare room if they are comfortable helping someone get back on their feet etc. - yeah but … Or maybe the parish hall.

I thank you for posting scripture Michael, and an interesting one too.

Judas’ appeal on behalf of the poor was not sincere. Jesus corrected him for publicly criticizing someone doing something good (at the same time defending HER).

In John’s Gospel that’s an “extra detail” – Judas as the main spokesperson (in the other Gospels it would appear the others held his opinion too prior to Jesus’ counsel to them).

For context, it is after THIS that Judas goes off to betray him to the Sanhedrin (and puts the price as 30 pieces of silver).

John 12:4 Then Judas the Iscariot, one (of) his disciples, and the one who would betray him, said,

5 “Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days’ wages and given to the poor?”

6 He said this ***not because he cared about the poor ***but because he was a thief and held the money bag and used to steal the contributions.

I think of this scripture when I hear someone doing a good thing get criticized with a “why aren’tcha doing THIS instead of that …” from a person who is doing nothing. And I’m always amazed at how much automatic credibility empty critics instantly GET in some quarters.

I think it may be that people can join them in their “moral indignation” and get on that high horse that feels so good to the ego. While at the same time ridding themselves of the guilt (we all sometimes feel) when we see someone doing the big right thing - that we aren’t.

A " … they’re not so good … what about …" complaint is probably “inspired” by the dark side (given the suspicion in it … and maybe the envy, jealousy, anger and guilt too). :hey_bud:

So we’d do well to check our swing when that temptation comes along.

The Lord in scripture (not just in direct quotes from Jesus) has quite a bit to say about how reverent worship shall be done. In the Old Testament there were holy things that could not be touched by unconsecrated persons (or Levites) and holy places (like the holy of holies) where most people could not go either.

A debate on “protecting a holy place” AND* “caring for your neighbor” would be interesting.

** AND, not versus. For surely we should do both. Put negatively, we should not let holy things be profaned … NOR should we “pass by our neighbor” we he is in need.

Luke 10:31 A** priest** happened to be going down that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side.

32 Likewise a Levite came to the place, and when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side.

33 But a Samaritan traveler who came upon him was moved with compassion at the sight.
*

In THIS example … although the priest and the Levite might have been going to keep an appointment involving the synagogue or Temple … Jesus’ parable seems to show that the better priority would have been “love your neighbor”.

It ***doesn’t negate the scripture ***you called our attention to Michael … we are to think about both of course … and maybe more than just those two per this knotty problem; The Holy Spirit will give us the Wisdom to show us the best thing to do in each case. And the Fortitude to carry it out (when the resistance against people doing good comes … as it always seems to).

Love God with your whole heart … < not so easy to do, but a soaring, beautiful ideal

Love your neighbor as yourself … < see previous footnote above.

Which to do FIRST or Better? Well. Jesus did mention one FIRST. But then He said “the other is like it.” So the controversies of THIS or THAT can be a way for the devil to tempt us to love the “intellectual” argument instead of doing either thing in love.

Oops. I replied anyway. I live alone and think “out loud” sometimes. Enjoyed your “thought experiment”.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

This is absolutely beautiful! and truly the love of Christ Jesus working. Amen. Amen.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

Thank you for posting this story. It is Jesus’s love in every way. May God continue to bless these souls.

“For I was a stranger and you invited me in…”

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/st-boniface-church-san-francisco_n_2592275.html?ir=Religion&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

 

[empantarhei]

The photos made me almost cry. I cannot imagine how difficult their lives must be…

I :clapping: St. Boniface for doing something to help the poorest among us, and I don’t think it’s disrespectful for them to rest in the Church considering their circumstances.

When the question of abuse is a grey area such as this, isn’t it best to respect the authority of the Bishop and the Priests?

As a side note - I read all of the posts and once again I’m left wondering if some simply post because they like to argue and their goal is hammer away until they "win."

me, too…

 

[BroomWagon]

The photos made me almost cry. I cannot imagine how difficult their lives must be…

I :clapping: St. Boniface for doing something to help the poorest among us, and I don’t think it’s disrespectful for them to rest in the Church considering their circumstances.

When the question of abuse is a grey area such as this, isn’t it best to respect the authority of the Bishop and the Priests?

As a side note - I read all of the posts and once again I’m left wondering if some simply post because they like to argue and their goal is hammer away until they “win.”

Catholic Charities somewhere at every moment of the day is sheltering the poor and feeding the hungry, it’s possibly been that way for centuries. You would think helping the poor was never done before St. Boniface.

Hurray for Catholic Charities :clapping: Catholic Hospitals :clapping: , the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and the Knights of Columbus: :clapping: and all of the pro-lifers and everyone who contributes to the Sunday collection every week!

 

[CaptFun]

Catholic Charities somewhere at every moment of the day is sheltering the poor and feeding the hungry, it’s possibly been that way for centuries. You would think helping the poor was never done before St. Boniface.

Hurray for Catholic Charities :clapping: Catholic Hospitals :clapping: , the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and the Knights of Columbus: :clapping: and all of the pro-lifers and everyone who contributes to the Sunday collection every week!

And to the countless people who help the homeless in the spirit of St. Vincent de Paul’s favorite scripture " … don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing." Give secretly. Give cheerfully. And your kudos to the above groups is quite in order BroomWagon.

On another note … the homeless themselves can inspire us too. Here’s a nice story about some brothers and sisters who live heroic and honest lives even when life seems stacked against them.

calgarysun.com/2012/10/14/kindness-of-homeless-man-who-returned-missing-wallet-cherished-to-this-day

 

[CaptFun]

Sometimes we have to turn our heads and look at the homeless in a different way.

bijbelspel.nl/dutch/kleurplaten/kerstmis_herders_in_stal.gif

Shepherds, the Holy Family. Homeless in Bethlehem.

 

[BroomWagon]

And to the countless people who help the homeless in the spirit of St. Vincent de Paul’s favorite scripture " … don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing." Give secretly. Give cheerfully. And your kudos to the above groups is quite in order BroomWagon.

On another note … the homeless themselves can inspire us too. Here’s a nice story about some brothers and sisters who live heroic and honest lives even when life seems stacked against them.

calgarysun.com/2012/10/14/kindness-of-homeless-man-who-returned-missing-wallet-cherished-to-this-day

Thank you for this great story. Seems we are in rather tough times nowadays.

 

[BroomWagon]

Sometimes we have to turn our heads and look at the homeless in a different way.

bijbelspel.nl/dutch/kleurplaten/kerstmis_herders_in_stal.gif

Shepherds, the Holy Family. Homeless in Bethlehem.

What a point, you should change your name from Capt Fun to Mr. Profound.

 

[cheezey]

but for the person who has fallen down so far he can’t get up … what is there to do but wait till someone helps you?

Therein lies the rub…The shelters are full in my location. I was given an extension where I currently reside, but have NO idea what will happen after that. NO IDEA. And it is brutally cold. I only know that I cannot do this myself, that I need a hand. Not a hand out, but a hand. I am waiting because I just really don’t know wat else to do. I pray for the help of just one person who could start the ball rolling of lifting me up just a bit because I have indeed fallen; one genuine, charitable, God-loving person. There are many someones out there, but, yes, it is difficult to do this and remain safe at the same time.