St Veronica & the Falls Of Jesus Removed From Way of Sorrows

[childofmary1143]

Lots of anger in this thread for no apparent reason. These same types of meditations have been around for awhile (1991 and perhaps even before?) and no one has insisted that they change the devotion on a wide scale before, why would that change now? This is much ado about nothing, since it’s been done before without any calamity, weakening of the faith or anything else.

Jennifer

I only heard about this yesterday.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Here’s a good history of the Stations including examples of different methods the Church has used.

newadvent.org/cathen/15569a.htm

Likewise, I always find it interesting that “traditionalists” get soooo up in arms about the Luminous mysteries. Anyone who has read St. Pius X’s encyclical and syllabus condemning the errors of modernism (and is familiar with certain neo-Modernist errors concerning the Church and the Kingdom of God) will see that the Luminous mysteries are each direct counters to the chief modernist errors.

Genesis, just for the record, I pray the Luminous mysteries every Thursday. And I am a traditional Catholic.

My mother, who turned SSPX several years ago, prays all four mysteries of the Rosary every day. And that includes the Luminous mysteries.

So maybe you are a wee bit wrong in your remark above?

 

[dessert]

Lots of anger in this thread for no apparent reason. These same types of meditations have been around for awhile (1991 and perhaps even before?) and no one has insisted that they change the devotion on a wide scale before, why would that change now? This is much ado about nothing, since it’s been done before without any calamity, weakening of the faith or anything else.

Jennifer

I think I would call this more confussion rather than anger. It reminds me of attending a parish that had missals and now one that doesn’t they both hold to their rights, and until they actually take down the station and say not to do it it is still a privaledge to say a prayer to Saint Veronica, I agree.

Having been misguided to the protestant realm before I remember what they used to discuss and not knowing at the time where their critizism was directed, this becomes clear as I am learning the truth as it is understood.

When ever I heard them discuss the three kings at Christmas it was always there were more than three kings etc. and this was there big pickle as I never seen so many get in a pickle about trivia but I think we are coming into an age of trivia big time, not sure whose fault that is.

And a nother big pickle they had was Jesus fell more than three times for sure so how did we know, well maybe he did but we honor him for the three or maybe they, the non-C want a hundred stations.

Our Holy Father is just in his descions and there can be change as there was added a 14 station and another mystery to the rosary . Maybe he is doing some things that should have been done before or at least accomplishing what his predecessors wished, also, he is led of the Holy Spirit and I don’t believe he will lead us wrong. Dessert

 

[dessert]

Lots of anger in this thread for no apparent reason. These same types of meditations have been around for awhile (1991 and perhaps even before?) and no one has insisted that they change the devotion on a wide scale before, why would that change now? This is much ado about nothing, since it’s been done before without any calamity, weakening of the faith or anything else.

Jennifer

I think I would call this more confussion rather than anger. It reminds me of attending a parish that had missals and now one that doesn’t they both hold to their rights, and until they actually take down the station and say not to do it it is still a privaledge to say a prayer to Saint Veronica, I agree.

Having been misguided to the protestant realm before I remember what they used to discuss and not knowing at the time where their critizism was directed, this becomes clear as I am learning the truth as it is understood.

When ever I heard them discuss the three kings at Christmas it was always there were more than three kings etc. and this was there big pickle as I never seen so many get in a pickle about trivia but I think we are coming into an age of trivia big time, not sure whose fault that is.

And a nother big pickle they had was Jesus fell more than three times for sure so how did we know, well maybe he did but we honor him for the three or maybe they, the non-C want a hundred stations.

Our Holy Father is just in his descions and there can be change as there was added a 14 station and another mystery to the rosary . Maybe he is doing some things that should have been done before or at least accomplishing what his predecessors wished, also, he is led of the Holy Spirit and I don’t believe he will lead us wrong. Dessert

 

[jmcrae]

And a nother big pickle they had was Jesus fell more than three times for sure so how did we know, well maybe he did but we honor him for the three or maybe they, the non-C want a hundred stations.

I’m sure the non-C would prefer that there be no stations at all, since this causes people to gather together in churches, look at images, and think about Holy Tradition .

Our Holy Father is just in his descions and there can be change as there was added a 14 station and another mystery to the rosary . Maybe he is doing some things that should have been done before or at least accomplishing what his predecessors wished, also, he is led of the Holy Spirit and I don’t believe he will lead us wrong. Dessert

I agree with you. It’s simply one more teaching tool to add to our arsenal - or not, as we see fit.

 

[beckers]

Didn’t Pope John Paul II use this different set of Stations at one time or another?
Personally, I prefer the traditional Stations. After all, the traditional Stations are what have been used in Jerusalem and have been rich in indulgences for centuries.

Yep JPII used a different set of the stations. The fact is the stations are not set in stone. You can use many different versions. Here is good book on JPII versions
**The New Stations of the Cross: The Way of the Cross According to Scripture (Paperback)
**by Megan Mckenna

**Book Description
**One of today’s most popular and respected Catholic writers presents the first guide to the new Stations of the Cross, reflecting the revisions made by Pope John Paul II.

A traditional devotion for Catholics for more than four hundred years, the Stations of the Cross commemorates the route Jesus traveled from being sentenced to death, crucified, and then buried in a borrowed tomb on the outskirts of Jerusalem. In the past, the devotion included a number of stations based on popular stories of piety and devotion, but not mentioned in the Gospels. Over the past eight years, however, Pope John Paul II has made substantial changes to the devotion in his Good Friday celebrations of the stations, removing those not found in the Bible and replacing them with stations that more accurately follow scriptural accounts of Christ’s passion.

The revised Stations of the Cross focuses on the condemned Jesus and on the community walking the way with him to the cross. Unrelieved by stories like Veronica’s wiping blood off the face of Jesus and his meeting with his mother; this is a story of an execution. The new stations deal directly with the pain, suffering, betrayal, and injustice to which Jesus was subjected. In explaining his reasons for revising the stations, the Pope has said that the alterations are intended to serve as a model for other devotions and to encourage the return to the Scriptures as the source of and inspiration for contemporary worship.

 

[m134e5]

I think most parishes are not going to ditch the stations that they have (they aren’t cheap)

That makes sense…but remember that altars and communion rails are even less cheap.

 

[KMXV]

Sorry, coming back to this post again - it’s bugging me.

Is this a “disciplinary change”? To the best of my knowledge, no Catholic is bound to pray the Way of the Cross - at Lent or any other time. Therefore no Catholic is bound to pray it any particular way - there’s no issue of discipline here, merely the Pope leading the people in the way he sees best.

You might disagree with the Pope (if you like - me, I don’t have the qualifications to do that) but there’s no “stink” here as you suggest.

Maybe this is what you “read somewhere”:
‘Late have I loved Thee, Beauty ever ancient, ever new, late have I loved Thee’ (Bk.10:27).

Ever ancient, ever new… hmmm, that’s something to meditate on.

The issue is the same issue it has been for 40 years: An almost obsessive compulsion among certain elements of the Church to change everything they can get their hands on. Change the Mass, change the Sacraments, change the Breviary, change the role of laymen, change the orientation of the altar, change the decor, change the Rosary, change the Stations…none of those, taken in isolation, would have caused the uproar that has been caused simply by the sheer number of changes that have occured. Is there nothing in the external worship and devotions of the Catholic Church that is off-limits, that is so sacrosanct that no one would dare tamper with it, even if it is only a disciplinary matter?

The experience of the past four decades provides a resounding no to that question. It would be nice if they’d throw us a bone once in a while and just leave things the way they are for the time being. Can’t wait to see what other changes they have in store. Maybe add an extra candle to the Advent wreath or give Father the option of wearing lime green vestments on Ascension. Can’t wait to see it.

It stinks of revolution. Big stink. Only those who have been wallowing in it for too long can no longer smell it.

 

[jmcrae]

That makes sense…but remember that altars and communion rails are even less cheap.

Sadly, the value of a thing is not what it cost to buy at the beginning, but what it costs to replace it.

If a marble altar can be replaced with a wooden bench, then the marble altar is no longer worth the thousands of dollars that was paid for it - it’s only worth the cost of the wooden bench.

All we can do is just hope that new versions of the Stations of the Cross are pricey enough to make people think twice about making the switch.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I’m still guessing that this is not a mandated change for the whole of the Church.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Sadly, the value of a thing is not what it cost to buy at the beginning, but what it costs to replace it.

If a marble altar can be replaced with a wooden bench, then the marble altar is no longer worth the thousands of dollars that was paid for it - it’s only worth the cost of the wooden bench.

All we can do is just hope that new versions of the Stations of the Cross are pricey enough to make people think twice about making the switch.

Thinking about that, who would want an image of Judas or Pontius Pilate in their churches?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Thinking about that, who would want an image of Judas or Pontius Pilate in their churches?

We already traditionally have one of Pilate, on the First Station, “Jesus is condemned.” And I think Da Vinci’s Last Supper, painted on a friary or monastery’s refectory wall, includes Judas. IF (and I still think it’s big IF) the Church were to include a station that involved Judas, I hardly imagine it would be “Poor Judas, so misunderstood!” (though St. Teresa de Avila actually prayed for the repose of his soul, if you can believe it) or “You GO, Judas!”

 

[jmcrae]

Thinking about that, who would want an image of Judas or Pontius Pilate in their churches?

Um - I think our church does, as a matter of fact - I think we have a Christ Before Pilate, and I think we also have a Judas Betrays Christ.

 

[paramedicgirl]

We already traditionally have one of Pilate, on the First Station, “Jesus is condemned.” And I think Da Vinci’s Last Supper, painted on a friary or monastery’s refectory wall, includes Judas. IF (and I still think it’s big IF) the Church were to include a station that involved Judas, I hardly imagine it would be “Poor Judas, so misunderstood!” (though St. Teresa de Avila actually prayed for the repose of his soul, if you can believe it) or “You GO, Judas!”

Well, there is a popular move presently to make Judas into a “poor Judas, he only fulfilled the role God had mapped out for him, so that we could all be saved.”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Well, there is a popular move presently to make Judas into a “poor Judas, he only fulfilled the role God had mapped out for him, so that we could all be saved.”

Yeah, that’s true, but it’s the ultra-liberals gunning for that. No threat at all. Plus, what do we say about St. Teresa?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Yeah, that’s true, but it’s the ultra-liberals gunning for that. No threat at all. Plus, what do we say about St. Teresa?

What do we say about her??

 

[jmcrae]

What do we say about her??

That she is a Doctor of the Church, and that there is nothing contrary to the Catholic Faith to be found in any of her published writings.

 

[paramedicgirl]

That she is a Doctor of the Church, and that there is nothing contrary to the Catholic Faith to be found in any of her published writings.

That’s what I would say. I wonder what JKIRK meant?

 

[Caesar]

Does EVERYTHING demand change? Is it not enough that the Mass, and the Rites for the Sacraments, and the Divine Office, and inumerable prayers and litanies, and the Liturgical Calendar, and Holy Days of Obligations, and God knows what else had to be changed?

Ooooh, I’m steamed now…

But we gotta go along with that wrecking ball of the spirit of Vatican II, dont we? Where to next? Hmmm, some of those Marian Dogmas are lookin’ a little too extra-biblical if you ask me- gotta be ecumenical now, unite ourselves with our protestant brothers and sisters, appease the liberals and the heretics…

And more and more I am starting to see why the SSPX has so many problems with the Church today…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Does EVERYTHING demand change? Is it not enough that the Mass, and the Rites for the Sacraments, and the Divine Office, and inumerable prayers and litanies, and the Liturgical Calendar, and Holy Days of Obligations, and God knows what else had to be changed?

Ooooh, I’m steamed now…

But we gotta go along with that wrecking ball of the spirit of Vatican II, dont we? Where to next? Hmmm, some of those Marian Dogmas are lookin’ a little too extra-biblical if you ask me- gotta be ecumenical now, unite ourselves with our protestant brothers and sisters, appease the liberals and the heretics…

And more and more I am starting to see why the SSPX has so many problems with the Church today…

Caesar: I don’t think it’s an official change! I think it was just a one time deal. I wouldn’t get excited over this.