'Stand Your Ground' hearing could potentially clear Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting

[april32010]

in the interest of full disclosure,i have more than a passing interest in this story.prior to my conversion four years ago,i have been a recovered drunk and dope fiend since 1983.from the age of 12 to 27 years of age, i was for the want of a different word a thug and pagan.i am a person that would rather fight than have sex,in the vernacular i would have phrased that differently .. i have been beat unconscious several times,at times in much the same manner that zimmerman alleges happened to him. i have also been knocked out,and i can state unequivocally that there is a qualitative difference to being beat unconscious and knocked out,there is an awareness when it is happening that “wow someone can get beat to death” i can also tell you there is difference between getting your head beaten on a cement sidewalk and an asphalt road,the road is actually softer.as you can see i am a connoisseur of beatings receiving and dispensing. i have begged men to not kill me and i have told men to go ahead and kill me. really,people expressing the opinion about this and all they know about a street fight is tv is ridiculous. one of my best friends now is a retired wash.d.c.detective,him and i have discussed this incident a number of times,and we both have had a lot of laughs listening to people talking about this.

 

[seekerz]

in the interest of full disclosure,i have more than a passing interest in this story.prior to my conversion four years ago,i have been a recovered drunk and dope fiend since 1983.from the age of 12 to 27 years of age, i was for the want of a different word a thug and pagan.i am a person that would rather fight than have sex,in the vernacular i would have phrased that differently .. i have been beat unconscious several times,at times in much the same manner that zimmerman alleges happened to him. i have also been knocked out,and i can state unequivocally that there is a qualitative difference to being beat unconscious and knocked out,there is an awareness when it is happening that “wow someone can get beat to death” i can also tell you there is difference between getting your head beaten on a cement sidewalk and an asphalt road,the road is actually softer.as you can see i am a connoisseur of beatings receiving and dispensing. i have begged men to not kill me and i have told men to go ahead and kill me. really,people expressing the opinion about this and all they know about a street fight is tv is ridiculous. one of my best friends now is a retired wash.d.c.detective,him and i have discussed this incident a number of times,and we both have had a lot of laughs listening to people talking about this.

I’m guessing you and your friend accept Zimmerman’s story that his head was being beaten into the cement…some of us laugh because we don’t believe his version of events. (I’m guessing he knows a bit about real street fights too, if his history is anything to go by). In any event, self defense is no excuse for getting out of the consequences of a confrontation that you went looking for.

 

[maryjk]

Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, continued to follow Martin as he tried to walk briskly away, continued to follow Martin after he started running away, then approached him with a loaded gun in a menacing manner. That most certainly IS provocative. The fact that Martin was approached is evident by the account of his girlfriend who heard the entire course of events all the way up until the scuffle began. Martin had every right to defend himself against a stranger who stalked him and approached him with a gun.

Wow, you were there? You saw this??

Otherwise you are purely speculating.

And if all of this were true, Martin wouldn’t have gotten close enough to do anything to Zimmerman. And he did, or I guess you can believe that Zimmerman injured himself and got two witnesses to lie for him.

 

[seekerz]

And he did, or I guess you can believe that Zimmerman injured himself and got two witnesses to lie for him.

Oh, it’s two witnesses now? What exactly did they see? I’m pretty sure there were no witnesses (other than a ‘voice’ witness) to the ***start ***of whatever altercation happened.

 

[Dawnia]

I do not. Stand Your Ground does not apply when the murder victim was actively pursued.

miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html

 

[Dawnia]

About half your list is irrelevant as it cannot be documented by a picture (which, if you recall, is what we were discussing).

For the purposes of evidence that can stand up in court, I’m guessing some sort of examination by appropriately trained professionals would be necessary.

Actually I said that his injuries were documented, I didn’t say that pictures were the only documentation.

But, nowhere in any of the reports or medical records from that night or the day after does it actually say that he had a broken nose, only that the external symptoms were consistant with a broken nose.

 

[vz71]

What size and weight adv.? So you really believe that during the whole ordeal that lasted at least 44s, the only time Zimmerman could show strength was to overpower Trayvon in getting the gun?

Yes, he knew his life depended on it.

What the heck was he doing when his head was supposedly being bashed and when at one point, Trayvon apparently had one hand on his nose and the other hand bashing his head?

Screaming.

I don’t buy his story at all.

That’s OK.
I know people that seriously believe we never landed on the moon either.

 

[maryjk]

Oh, it’s two witnesses now? What exactly did they see? I’m pretty sure there were no witnesses (other than a ‘voice’ witness) to the ***start ***of whatever altercation happened.

There is a voice witness to his injuries??

I said:

And he did, or I guess you can believe that Zimmerman injured himself and got two witnesses to lie for him.

So, let us get down to brass tacks.

Do you believe that Zimmerman injured himself, and then said that Martin did it? Or do you take the witness statement, the police, documenting the injuries? Oh and the photos and video of the injuries.

 

[Chrish1975]

Zimmerman should pay - if only for his own stupidity. For pity’s sake, people go to jail for years for much, much less.

I was attacked by a young man with his fists many years ago and I defended myself with a rock by knocking him out. Should I have gone to jail or just let him beat me to death?
People sometimes forget that there except by the grace of God go I. None of us know what tomorrow brings and anyone of us can be a victim of a Trayvonn Martin. And race doesn’t matter.

 

[vz71]

And you have judged his account of events to be the truth. So what? We are both free to believe what we want.

I have not heard his account of events.
I am going off of the evidence.

 

[vz71]

Nonsense. The publicly available facts prove that Zimmerman followed Martin in his car and approached him.

No, the evidence shows that he followed in his car.
Nothing indicates approaching him.

That is quite backwards. Travon was followed and approached by stranger with a gun. It was Travon who had the right of self defense not Zimmerman. The law clearly states that it is not applicable for the party which provoked the conflict.

Untrue.
Trayvon was followed.
There is no evidence indicating he was approached.

 

[vz71]

“Martin came back” is just as irrational as “Zimmerman setting out with intent to kill” - which, I suppose is why he isn’t charged with 1st degree murder.

Not at all.
Were Zimmerman intending murder, he would not have called the police first.

Trayvon however has no such problem since he has no knowledge the police are on the way.

We do not know what Trayvon was thinking at the time, if he felt threatened or emboldened.

But we do know based upon the injuries Zimmerman suffered during this meeting that Trayvon was on the offensive.

 

[vz71]

Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, continued to follow Martin as he tried to walk briskly away, continued to follow Martin after he started running away, then approached him with a loaded gun in a menacing manner.

Source?

That most certainly IS provocative.

If true. But I do not believe that is the truth.
Please provide the source for this.

The fact that Martin was approached is evident by the account of his girlfriend who heard the entire course of events all the way up until the scuffle began. Martin had every right to defend himself against a stranger who stalked him and approached him with a gun.

I believe she told Trayvon to run away, and he did not.

 

[april32010]

I’m guessing you and your friend accept Zimmerman’s story that his head was being beaten into the cement…some of us laugh because we don’t believe his version of events. (I’m guessing he knows a bit about real street fights too, if his history is anything to go by). In any event, self defense is no excuse for getting out of the consequences of a confrontation that you went looking for.

self defense is always a legitimate defense.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, continued to follow Martin as he tried to walk briskly away, continued to follow Martin after he started running away, then approached him with a loaded gun in a menacing manner. That most certainly IS provocative. The fact that Martin was approached is evident by the account of his girlfriend who heard the entire course of events all the way up until the scuffle began. Martin had every right to defend himself against a stranger who stalked him and approached him with a gun.

And you have proof of this, because it isn’t spelled out in the charging statement.

 

[kelvinf]

in the interest of full disclosure,i have more than a passing interest in this story.prior to my conversion four years ago,i have been a recovered drunk and dope fiend since 1983.from the age of 12 to 27 years of age, i was for the want of a different word a thug and pagan.i am a person that would rather fight than have sex,in the vernacular i would have phrased that differently .. i have been beat unconscious several times,at times in much the same manner that zimmerman alleges happened to him. i have also been knocked out,and i can state unequivocally that there is a qualitative difference to being beat unconscious and knocked out,there is an awareness when it is happening that “wow someone can get beat to death” i can also tell you there is difference between getting your head beaten on a cement sidewalk and an asphalt road,the road is actually softer.as you can see i am a connoisseur of beatings receiving and dispensing. i have begged men to not kill me and i have told men to go ahead and kill me. really,people expressing the opinion about this and all they know about a street fight is tv is ridiculous. one of my best friends now is a retired wash.d.c.detective,him and i have discussed this incident a number of times,and we both have had a lot of laughs listening to people talking about this.

If you were under the influence of alcohol, then it explains a lot. But I am still curious to know: if someone is beating you, do you just watch the person beat you or what?

 

[kelvinf]

So you really believe that during the whole ordeal that lasted at least 44s, the only time Zimmerman could show strength was to overpower Trayvon in getting the gun?

Yes, he knew his life depended on it.

Wow! So his life depended on killing Trayvon when he could very well overpower him?

What the heck was he doing when his head was supposedly being bashed and when at one point, Trayvon apparently had one hand on his nose and the other hand bashing his head?

Screaming.

So that’s all he could do, like a baby, and you really buy it and think what he claimed Trayvon was doing is feasible?

I don’t buy his story at all.

That’s OK.
I know people that seriously believe we never landed on the moon either.

Just like those who believe 9 11 was staged. Well, what you and I know for sure (although you haven’t yet admitted it on this forum) is that, Zimmerman is incredible! Or do you deny it?

 

[kelvinf]

I was attacked by a young man with his fists many years ago and I defended myself with a rock by knocking him out. Should I have gone to jail or just let him beat me to death?
People sometimes forget that there except by the grace of God go I. None of us know what tomorrow brings and anyone of us can be a victim of a Trayvonn Martin. And race doesn’t matter.

At least you realised that you had 2 hands and 2 feet and used your hands accordingly. What Zimmerman was doing for 44 secs - 1 min 55 secs is missing in his story apart from claiming that he was screaming and trying to move this head away from the concrete to the grass where his head would be more secure for Trayvon to continue with the bashing. Again, I cannot swallow such a story from a 28-year-old male.

And from what we know, Zimmerman only sustained minor injuries which do not match his claims. This is something the investigator was finding hard to understand.

A lot of people are ignoring that, their kid could equally have been a victim of a Zimmerman and I am not sure to they would accept that, their unarmed kid, committing no crime, was killed by a Zimmerman.

 

[seekerz]

Actually I said that his injuries were documented, I didn’t say that pictures were the only documentation.

But, nowhere in any of the reports or medical records from that night or the day after does it actually say that he had a broken nose, only that the external symptoms were consistant with a broken nose.

So we have no proof that his nose was in fact broken, only that it appeared to be? In that case, we only have proof of minor injuries…

BTW, you are the one who originally brought up police pictures - I was simply pointing out that pictures alone cannot confirm a broken nose unless the bones are sticking out.

 

[seekerz]

There is a voice witness to his injuries??

Did I say that? I said a voice witness to the start of the altercation.

.

So, let us get down to brass tacks

Yes, do let’s. Tell me about the “witnesses” you mention and what they saw.

Do you believe that Zimmerman injured himself, and then said that Martin did it?

I believe that is a distinct possibility, particularly since proper medical documentation was only carried out the next day. It’s easier for me to imagine a scared Zimmerman trying to justify a shooting that should have never happened, than for me to imagine a boy who was running away, suddenly changing direction and clearly stating his intentions before trying to beat an armed man to death with his bare hands.

Or do you take the witness statement, the police, documenting the injuries? Oh and the photos and video of the injuries.

As to the police and visual documentation, for injuries of any significance I’d take the findings of a trained medical professional over that any day. Like I said to a previous poster, pictures are not proof of a broken nose unless the bones are sticking out.

As to the witness/es, tell me who exactly you are referring to and what they claim to have seen.