Starbucks??

[fix]

So, basically, we should not think too deeply about our actions and choices. If we do then we may have to change the way we lead our lives and that would be too inconvenient?

 

[Julianna]

Yes, we hear you loud and clear …“mine! …mine! …mine! …”

Unless of course it is your conscience tapping you on the shoulder.

Not at all…I don’t spend every waking hour pouring over the LDI list before I go out. I don’t get paranoid thoughts of “is this a sin, or is that a sin?” I am not oppressed, suppressed nor will I suffer the “guilt” and “sack cloth and ashes” lifestyle. I don’t worry that the deodorant I am applying to my armpit “could be” “down the road” “somewhere” “possibly” have been packaged or produced by a homosexual. Actually, I’m glad, he/she has a job and is contributing to the economy. I don’t claim to know what “God” thinks, feels. It seems you all have the super human ability to do this.

I’ll stick with being a mere imperfect mortal…

 

[setter]

Not at all…I don’t spend every waking hour pouring over the LDI list before I go out. I don’t get paranoid thoughts of “is this a sin, or is that a sin?” I am not oppressed, suppressed nor will I suffer the “guilt” and “sack cloth and ashes” lifestyle. I don’t worry that the deodorant I am applying to my armpit “could be” “down the road” “somewhere” “possibly” have been packaged or produced by a homosexual. Actually, I’m glad, he/she has a job and is contributing to the economy. I don’t claim to know what “God” thinks, feels. It seems you all have the super human ability to do this.

I’ll stick with being a mere imperfect mortal…

So basically ‘don’t bother me the details’ ?

 

[pgoings]

So basically ‘don’t bother me the details’?

I think that the problem is that some people are asserting that “my details are more important than your details.”

Consider several possibilities:

1. I give money directly to fund abortions.
2. I buy products from company “A,” who gives money to fund abortions.
3. I do business with company “B,” who buys products from company “A,” who gives money to fund abortions.

I think we’d all agree that (1) is immoral; most people, including most moral theologians, would say that (3) is not immoral. There is the possibility for legitimate debate about (2), but I am inclined to think that it would not be sinful. If the opposite is true, unless the company’s business is principally raising money to fund abortions.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

I’m not looking for a company to openly say anything. I just want them to be neutral. If the CEO of a company wants to give money to a certain cause then I don’t care as long as it’s the CEO’s personal funds and not the funds of the company.
I don’t see how the Canada thing relates at all in this situation. When I buy a Honda I don’t buy it from the country of Japan. I buy it from Honda.

A reply would be that Honda pays taxes to Japan. Or something of that sort.

Be careful about neutrality…sounds sort of like “lukewarmness.” Lorik, I’m not picking on you or your viewpoint, I’m just saying that this is an issue that involves everybody and requires a consistent approach.

See, this makes for nice discussion, but it’s almost like we need an authoratative voice to guide us in moral issues like this.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Oh my, I forgot, this is a really long thread. I am probably way behind and will never catch up, and my comment may have been useful a week ago but is now outdated.

Merry Christmas everyone !

 

[mystified]

Starbucks?
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been to one, including to cash in a freebee coupon.
It is not an issue of boycott, it is an issue of pocketbook. No cup of coffee is worth THAT/ much. And besides, I prefer to drink, rather than chew, my coffee.
A pot-a-day-man**

 

[Katie1723]

Are you suggesting that we lighten up as in catholic ‘lite’?

No I am not. But unless you are living in the middle of nowhere, raising your own food, sewing your own clothes, talking on a phone/computer made in the USA powered by 2 hamsters on a wheel, driving your car running on biodiesel you made, using electricity you provided from off the grid living, hauling water up from a stream/waterfall near the house you built /made from bricks/logs you provided, there is bound to be SOMETHING that you use that is provided by a company on a list someone is keeping that says “we do not support Catholic philosophies”
And unless I am mistaken, God isn’t up there with a book and pen keeping track of who does or doesn’t drink Starbucks.
Kathy

 

[catolic]

Unbelieveable…simply unbelieveable…I am trying to hard not to crack up at the insanity. Someone comes out with a list of no-no’s and tells you that you’re going to hell in a handbasket if you even “think” of getting a cup of coffee from Starbucks…and goodness knows “just who” will see you chugging down a latte grande…

…remember that horrible movie “Priest” back some 15 yrs or so ago?..well somehow it got traced back to “Disney” having a piece of ownership in it…and suddenly the boycotts on Disney went crazy…(way before “gay days” started)…

fast forward to 2006…are Catholics still boycotting Disney because of that movie? I seriously doubt it…if you look at the average mom and dad Catholic with 2.5 kiddos…I’d bet their DVD library as well as their book library is loaded with Disney…

If you want to keep someone employed making money off of someone’s opinion…knock yourself out…

In the meantime, I’m meeting Katie for a cup o Joe at Starbucks

Bravo!!! :clapping:

 

[fix]

I think that the problem is that some people are asserting that “my details are more important than your details.”

Consider several possibilities:

1. I give money directly to fund abortions.
2. I buy products from company “A,” who gives money to fund abortions.
3. I do business with company “B,” who buys products from company “A,” who gives money to fund abortions.

I think we’d all agree that (1) is immoral; most people, including most moral theologians, would say that (3) is not immoral. There is the possibility for legitimate debate about (2), but I am inclined to think that it would not be sinful. If the opposite is true, unless the company’s business is principally raising money to fund abortions.

I think you are close to the heart of the matter. The point that got lost here is that not all things are equal. Some have asserted that simply because of a global economy it does not matter what we support because there is so much interrelations. I assert that is false. Each circumstance must be looked at on its own merits.

 

[setter]

No I am not. But unless you are living in the middle of nowhere, raising your own food, sewing your own clothes, talking on a phone/computer made in the USA powered by 2 hamsters on a wheel, driving your car running on biodiesel you made, using electricity you provided from off the grid living, hauling water up from a stream/waterfall near the house you built /made from bricks/logs you provided, there is bound to be SOMETHING that you use that is provided by a company on a list someone is keeping that says “we do not support Catholic philosophies”
And unless I am mistaken, God isn’t up there with a book and pen keeping track of who does or doesn’t drink Starbucks.

         Kathy

Your point?

Note worthy: Taking your stance, the good Christian folks who organized and implemented the successful Wal-mart stores boycott apparently did not put enough forethought into their boycott planning to know in advance that it would be a self-defeating and self-contradictory effort …

 

[Lorik]

No I am not. But unless you are living in the middle of nowhere, raising your own food, sewing your own clothes, talking on a phone/computer made in the USA powered by 2 hamsters on a wheel, driving your car running on biodiesel you made, using electricity you provided from off the grid living, hauling water up from a stream/waterfall near the house you built /made from bricks/logs you provided, there is bound to be SOMETHING that you use that is provided by a company on a list someone is keeping that says “we do not support Catholic philosophies”
And unless I am mistaken, God isn’t up there with a book and pen keeping track of who does or doesn’t drink Starbucks.

Kathy

You’re acting as if all companies directly give money to Planned Parenthood. A huge majority do not.
Let’s say there’s a coffee company called “Cometdollars”, let’s say you are aware that “Cometdollars” writes checks out to Osama bin Laden. Would you buy coffee from “Cometdollars”? Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think you would.
How many more murders are committed by Planned Parenthood than bin Laden? Thousands and thousands. But we don’t see it, we’ve grown numb to it. Just because you don’t see the blood doesn’t mean it’s not there. Abortion is terrorism none the less.

 

[setitstraight]

This is by know means a black and white issue. I respect the fact that people do what they can, with what they have, to try and make a difference in the world. I really do…your trying…you can’t ask for much more than a solid effort.

I actually can see your side of the argument and where you are coming from.

I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my ‘passionate’ posts, if so, I am sorry, that was never my intent.

I surprised myself as to how involved and passionate I got,I am new to these type of forums.

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Katie1723]

I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my ‘passionate’ posts, if so, I am sorry, that was never my intent…

Merry Christmas everyone!

No need to apologize for “being passionate”. It is you, how you feel.
Now come and join me for a cup of whatever is your pleasure.
Kathy

 

[Lorik]

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[Listener]

I have a feeling that if Jesus was living on earth today, He would be sitting in Starbucks, having a latte, and talking to the people around Him. After all, wasn’t He criticized for “eating and drinking with sinners?”

 

[hasikelee]

Whatever support there is for gays and abortion has been made public. That doesn’t mean that your favorite store doesn’t do the same thing only with less fanfare. If you keep this up you won’t have anywhere else to shop or in this case work.

If I went to work at Starbucks, they would be paying a someone who would then turn around and give money to the church and to pro-life organizations. If I don’t work there, a person who doesn’t share my values gets the same money and either doesn’t contribute or give the money to PP.

We are not responcible for what a company does with its money or investments unless we own the company. And even though I don’t buy into the boycott thing it seems better to work for the company than patronize it.

Also consider that your active participation as an employee could change things.

My employer was and still isn’t very prolife, but my particular department and store is since I started working there. I have managed to divert donation funds/activities to pro-life organizations and from PP/united way. Some of the employees have opened their hearts and minds to the idea of “the sanctity of life.”

Starbucks owners, large divisions/regions or even just the PR group, may be actively pro-abortion/gay, but you might find out that your store manager is a prolife Catholic trying to earn an honest paycheck and make his or her part of the world a little better. That’s what I found out!

 

[hasikelee]

I have a feeling that if Jesus was living on earth today, He would be sitting in Starbucks, having a latte, and talking to the people around Him. After all, wasn’t He criticized for “eating and drinking with sinners?”

Are you kidding! :bigyikes: Do you know how much one of those babies costs?

Then again…hehehe, I just ruined my own argument with the reflection of the lady who used an expensive perfume on His feet…

 

[catolic]

I have a feeling that if Jesus was living on earth today, He would be sitting in Starbucks, having a latte, and talking to the people around Him. After all, wasn’t He criticized for “eating and drinking with sinners?”

Exactly. Thank you!.."As he passed by, he saw Levi, son or Alphaeus, sitting at the customs post. He said to him, ‘Follow me.’ And he got up and followed him. While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners sat with Jesus and his disciples; for there were many who followed him. Some of the scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, ’ Why dose he eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ Jesus heard this and said to them, ‘Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the rightous but sinners.’ " The Gosple of St. Mark, 2:14-17

 

[fix]

I have a feeling that if Jesus was living on earth today, He would be sitting in Starbucks, having a latte, and talking to the people around Him. After all, wasn’t He criticized for “eating and drinking with sinners?”

That seems to overlook a few important items. He ate with siners to call to conversion, not simply to chat about the weather.

That Christ ate withh sinners in no way justifies not thinking deeply and making critical prudential decisions in all matters. Should we give money and support to Planned Parenthood because Christ ate with sinners?