Starbucks??

[Lion]

I never said that they did…did you read what I wrote? SOME OF THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD! Meaning some of what I stated in my reply to Lion had nothing to do with this thread (expressly the homosexuals and abortion issues)! **may I suggest that you read the whole post that I was replying to as I did not quote it in its total in my reply… **

I understood your reply to my message Karin!!! And thank you!
Sometimes I think we all (myself included) need to take a deep breath and maybe reread a post in order to understand, or at least get a sense of, what the person is trying to say. Sorry, but I have never seen a perfect person, so its wonderful when we ask a question about a doubt we have and someone corrects us just as it is wonderful when we are mistaken and someone calls us on our error (preferably with proof ) All of the Catholics on this forum are sinners, though some are more educated in our faith… we are all just trying to muddle through somehow… and we all come from different levels of faith, knowledge, and wisdom
Okay this was totally not the right place for my comment and I apologize to everyone it has distracted from the origin of the thread. Final word: Let’s all try to be a little more understanding that we are not all coming from the same “place” and will have different beliefs/opinions and let’s all try to hold charity in our hearts when we sign in to this forum (I’m probably saying this more to myself than anyone else 'cause I have my own issues with certain posters )

 

[Karin]

I understood your reply to my message Karin!!! And thank you!

Sometimes I think we all (myself included) need to take a deep breath and maybe reread a post in order to understand, or at least get a sense of, what the person is trying to say. Sorry, but I have never seen a perfect person, so its wonderful when we ask a question about a doubt we have and someone corrects us just as it is wonderful when we are mistaken and someone calls us on our error (preferably with proof ) All of the Catholics on this forum are sinners, though some are more educated in our faith… we are all just trying to muddle through somehow… and we all come from different levels of faith, knowledge, and wisdom
Okay this was totally not the right place for my comment and I apologize to everyone it has distracted from the origin of the thread. Final word: Let’s all try to be a little more understanding that we are not all coming from the same “place” and will have different beliefs/opinions and let’s all try to hold charity in our hearts when we sign in to this forum (I’m probably saying this more to myself than anyone else 'cause I have my own issues with certain posters )

 

[Lion]

yes setitstraight, you are banging your head against the wall. I get you…no one is an island…no matter what faith they profess to be. We can’t live in a fish bowl at the exclusion of all others…especially in the US.

Willy doesn’t want to work at Starbucks…ok, fine…his choice. Yepper, you are beating a dead horse. I do find that if you state your opinion and it doesn’t mesh with “everything” Catholic, suddenly you are an outcast. I find it difficult to believe that everyone is “Catholic” all the time 24/7…and are carrying around the LDI list…or some list of do’s and don’ts.

Jesus taught by example and went to homes where people were less than perfect…he didn’t live in a fishbowl. I agree with the poster that thought that if Willy did work for Starbucks perhaps he could provide another outlook.

Telling people where to shop, where to work, who to vote for…et al…is a slippery slope, one that poses a danger to our freedoms. If want country run by religion…ask yourself “how is working for the Middle East?”

I totally agree with you except for your comment about “especially in the US”… the USA is not the only first world nation and in fact the same problem exists in many 2nd world nations…
I’m just joking around with you Julianna… not attacking you in the least.
Your comment is very much appreciated by me… just having a little fun (at your expense… Sorry!) :tiphat:

 

[Julianna]

I totally agree with you except for your comment about “especially in the US”… the USA is not the only first world nation and in fact the same problem exists in many 2nd world nations…
I’m just joking around with you Julianna… not attacking you in the least.
Your comment is very much appreciated by me… just having a little fun (at your expense… Sorry!) :tiphat:

thanks, and no problem. I’ve been through worse. Message boards don’t scare me…

 

[Lion]

thanks, and no problem. I’ve been through worse. Message boards don’t scare me…

LOL… I’m sure you have :yup:
Have a great day and a blessed Christmas!!

 

[Celtic_FC]

You ask me 'bout creamer, you ask me 'bout sugar
I tell you those things make me sick! In my oooohhh oooooohh good coffee strong coffee…I need to have some. 'Tis lyrics from a JOC song.

 

[davy39]

Your incorrect…

"Costco is a Washington corporation, publicly traded under the Nasdaq ticker symbol “COST”, with its home office in Issaquah, Washington.

A more complete description of the Company and its business is contained in the Company’s periodic filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. "

phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=83830&p=irol-homeprofile

I stand corrected Thanks for the info.

 

[fix]

This happens to be one of the most bizarre threads I have ever read. To all you boycotters, you are hypocrites. How many Chinese products have you bought this week? The Chinese opress the Church. How many times have you shopped in a Target, Walmart, Kmart, 7-11, etc?! This kid has been misguided by your posts Karin. Let him work there, and have influence rathern than be lazy. Your “no starbucks” attitude is just immature.

Those that have raised questions about the way Starbuck’s promotes bad things are not immature. These issues can be complicated as I noted in post #126.

 

[setter]

Those that have raised questions about the way Starbuck’s promotes bad things are not immature. These issues can be complicated as I noted in post #126.

I beliueve that it also comes down to mature discernment and a well formed consicence. How easy it is to render an issue irrelevent due to the global and complex intertwining of issues involved – there is not straight line equation all the times. However, in a the exercise of discernment, one has the opportunity to pick and choose within within their sphere of influence actions and communications that hopefully convey an adherence and respect for Christian values and worldview. Not that complicated, and yes, it gives others the opportunity to hear a contrasting and challenging voice in our tolerant without discrimination society.

A fair question for all Catholics to consider: How are you salting the culture around you with the light of the gospel? Would others be able to pick you from a line up as a Christian for martydom?

 

[fix]

I beliueve that it also comes down to mature discernment and a well formed consicence. How easy it is to render an issue irrelevent due to the global and complex intertwining of issues involved – there is not straight line equation all the times. However, in a the exercise of discernment, one has the opportunity to pick and choose within within their sphere of influence actions and communications that hopefully convey an adherence and respect for Christian values and worldview. Not that complicated, and yes, it gives others the opportunity to hear a contrasting and challenging voice in our tolerant without discrimination society.

A fair question for all Catholics to consider: How are you salting the culture around you with the light of the gospel? Would others be able to pick you from a line up as a Christian for martydom?

Yes, as has been said every moral issue is considered “gray” when we are unprincipled.

 

[AngelRose81]

I guess you have no issues with suporting companies that teach and practice things that go against your faith…that is your issue not mine…I was replying to the OP…Starbucks supports ABORTIONS and GAY’s

I’m all for not supporting places who don’t represent good Christian values but, seriously, to not support would mean that you would have to stay home and make your own clothes and grow your own food and make your kids’ toys too and a whole lot of good Catholics and other Christians wouldn’t have jobs that help support their families if we don’t support some companies. Almost all of corporate America is now in support of abortion, gays, etc just to make themselves look politically correct and no I don’t agree with it but they aren’t going to change unless the people of American start to change. So until then, I think I’ll get my coffee at Starbucks and I’ll shop at WalMart for my needs and I’ll continue to eat Pringles potato chips from Procter and Gamble. Sorry if that offends anyone. just my :twocents:

 

[setter]

I’m all for not supporting places who don’t represent good Christian values but, seriously, to not support would mean that you would have to stay home and make your own clothes and grow your own food and make your kids’ toys too and a whole lot of good Catholics and other Christians wouldn’t have jobs that help support their families if we don’t support some companies. Almost all of corporate America is now in support of abortion, gays, etc just to make themselves look politically correct and no I don’t agree with it but they aren’t going to change unless the people of American start to change. So until then, I think I’ll get my coffee at Starbucks and I’ll shop at WalMart for my needs and I’ll continue to eat Pringles potato chips from Procter and Gamble. Sorry if that offends anyone. just my :twocents:

You beg the question: What change (and sacrifice) are you willing to make to encourage corporate America to change in a more moral direction? Are you at all willing to consider alternative products from companies that do not actively seek to offend Christian values anbd sensibilities and to notify the offending company regarding the same?

 

[setitstraight]

You beg the question: What change (and sacrifice) are you willing to make to encourage corporate America to change in a more moral direction? Are you at all willing to consider alternative products from companies that do not actively seek to offend Christian values anbd sensibilities and to notify the offending company regarding the same?

Your missing the point - it’s not corporate America…it’s a global economy. So you boycott Starbucks and support some other chain. How certain are you that the other chain doesn’t get it’s coffee from a third world country, paying the absolute least amount of money to terribly poor peasant farmers?

How willing are the Starbuck boycotters willing to get the list of parts that make up the car they drive…all to make certain that the thousands of parts found within the vehicle don’t come from an offending company?

I would think very few. It’s easier to boycott a cup of coffee and people don’t want to think beyond that.

 

[setter]

Your missing the point - it’s not corporate America…it’s a global economy. So you boycott Starbucks and support some other chain. How certain are you that the other chain doesn’t get it’s coffee from a third world country, paying the absolute least amount of money to terribly poor peasant farmers?

How willing are the Starbuck boycotters willing to get the list of parts that make up the car they drive…all to make certain that the thousands of parts found within the vehicle don’t come from an offending company?

I would think very few. It’s easier to boycott a cup of coffee and people don’t want to think beyond that.

What then do you propose as part of the solution rather than part of the problem, as in where the rubber meets the road of Christian discipleship? Your critique comes across as all or nothing, while not exerting any power of personal choice and discernment in one’s stewardship allocation of resources.

 

[setitstraight]

What then do you propose as part of the solution rather than part of the problem, as in where the rubber meets the road of Christian discipleship? Your critique comes across as all or nothing, while not exerting any power of personal choice and discernment in one’s stewardship allocation of resources.

I propose that people make themselves aware that a moral boycott set up concerning the proximity a company has supporting a certain issue…will invariable / or at least potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy.

The LDI boycott list also recommends boycotting Microsoft…how much money does the Bill Gates foundation give to fighting AIDS in Africa?

I bet allot of people who follow that list, keep on using Microsoft products…or are unaware of the number of times in a day they use Microsoft products. Yet they feel great for boycotting Starbucks…while at the same time using Microsoft products that are supposed to be boycotted for the exact same reason as Starbucks! If they are asked about it in a post…they completely ignore the question.

I’ve only asked people at the very least, think about the issue. Instead of people pausing to consider the effects of the global economy on consumerism, I receive replies from people scolding me that products are bought from companies and not from countries…I guess I find it frustrating that people will proudly boycott company A and at the same time refuse to even consider the problems associated with a selective moral boycott.

It’s almost as if people are afraid to exit their nice warm bubble where they are buffered from having to actually think about an issue as being other than black or white.

Starbucks is visible and easy to stop using…that is why it’s so convenient for the boycotters.

 

[Katie1723]

I’m all for not supporting places who don’t represent good Christian values but, seriously, to not support would mean that you would have to stay home and make your own clothes and grow your own food and make your kids’ toys too and a whole lot of good Catholics and other Christians wouldn’t have jobs that help support their families if we don’t support some companies…So until then, I think I’ll get my coffee at Starbucks and I’ll shop at WalMart for my needs and I’ll continue to eat Pringles potato chips from Procter and Gamble. Sorry if that offends anyone. just my :twocents:

I wholeheartedly agree with you!
Kathy

 

[setter]

I propose that people make themselves aware that a moral boycott set up concerning the proximity a company has supporting a certain issue…will invariable / or at least potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy.

The LDI boycott list also recommends boycotting Microsoft…how much money does the Bill Gates foundation give to fighting AIDS in Africa?

I bet allot of people who follow that list, keep on using Microsoft products…or are unaware of the number of times in a day they use Microsoft products. Yet they feel great for boycotting Starbucks…while at the same time using Microsoft products that are supposed to be boycotted for the exact same reason as Starbucks! If they are asked about it in a post…they completely ignore the question.

I’ve only asked people at the very least, think about the issue. Instead of people pausing to consider the effects of the global economy on consumerism, I receive replies from people scolding me that products are bought from companies and not from countries…I guess I find it frustrating that people will proudly boycott company A and at the same time refuse to even consider the problems associated with a selective moral boycott.

It’s almost as if people are afraid to exit their nice warm bubble where they are buffered from having to actually** think about an issue** as being other than black or white.

Starbucks is visible and easy to stop using…that is why it’s so convenient for the boycotters.

Bottom line: You offer no proposed solution, strategy or concrete actions other than “think about the issue” and continue buisness with companies that support immoral social practicies and agenda, lest one “potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy”. Your rationale sounds more academic than practical, as the beat goes on unencumbered for companies who continue to embrace and fund profits to support immoral social initiatives. What happened to the basic concept of rewards and punishment for good and bad behavior?

BTW – In your configuration, can you cite one example where you would outcome with a decision that the morally responsible thing to do is to withdraw funding a company who support immoral social initiatives.

Here is an example of one Christian organization that drew the line in the sand, had the courage to stand up and be counted, and made a difference. No overly complex equation here, only the exercise of fortitude to stand on the principles one proclaims.

Updated: 9:41 p.m. ET Nov 21, 2006

NEW YORK - A conservative group that had called on supporters to boycott Wal-Mart’s post-Thanksgiving day sales to protest the retailer’s support of gay-rights groups withdrew its objections Tuesday, saying the company had agreed to stay away from controversial causes.

The American Family Association, which had been asking supporters to stay away from Wal-Mart on Friday and Saturday — two of the busiest shopping days of the year — said it was pleased by a statement the company issued Tuesday.

msnbc.msn.com/id/15835445/

 

[Lorik]

I propose that people make themselves aware that a moral boycott set up concerning the proximity a company has supporting a certain issue…will invariable / or at least potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy.

Doesn’t claiming to be Catholic and choosing to buy a product well known to support Planned Parenthood come awfully close to invariable/ or at least potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy?

The LDI boycott list also recommends boycotting Microsoft…how much money does the Bill Gates foundation give to fighting AIDS in Africa?

The Catholic Church is the largest donor when it comes to fighting AIDS. It doesn’t matter how many condoms Bill Gates buys, it won’t defeat AIDS. Education and morality will.

I bet allot of people who follow that list, keep on using Microsoft products…or are unaware of the number of times in a day they use Microsoft products. Yet they feel great for boycotting Starbucks…while at the same time using Microsoft products that are supposed to be boycotted for the exact same reason as Starbucks! If they are asked about it in a post…they completely ignore the question.
As I have stated before I can only do the best I can. If I have a choice between Adidas or Nike shoes, I will choose the Adidas. Because I am not aware of Adidas donating to Planned Parenthood. On the other hand I know that Nike does. If I’m misinformed then I’m sure God at least appreciates the attempt. I don’t feel great about it I feel sad. If I am in a position where I have no choice (like my mortgage) then there’s nothing I can do about that. I fail to see how that makes me a hypocrite.

I’ve only asked people at the very least, think about the issue. Instead of people pausing to consider the effects of the global economy on consumerism, I receive replies from people scolding me that products are bought from companies and not from countries…I guess I find it frustrating that people will proudly boycott company A and at the same time refuse to even consider the problems associated with a selective moral boycott.
Governments have funding outside of the companies that operate in their nation. I don’t feel bound to break the law and not pay my taxes. That would be self defeating.
It’s almost as if people are afraid to exit their nice warm bubble where they are buffered from having to actually think about an issue as being other than black or white.

That is exactly how I feel about your position.

Starbucks is visible and easy to stop using…that is why it’s so convenient for the boycotters.
Yes, your right. It’s easy, visible and convienient so why can’t more Catholics do it and make a statement that we will not tolerate companies that directly donate to Planned Parenthood.

 

[fix]

I guess I find it frustrating that people will proudly boycott company A and at the same time refuse to even consider the problems associated with a selective moral boycott.

I agree boycotts can do more harm than good in certain cases. That does not mean we cannot encourage what is good and discouarge what is bad in companies.

It’s almost as if people are afraid to exit their nice warm bubble where they are buffered from having to actually think about an issue as being other than black or white.

But, the problem is too many of us claim it does not matter because no matter how we spend our money it ends up supporting something immoral. What we forget is that we do have some power and some things are more immoral and more immediate than others. That is not black and white. What is black and white thinking is to claim none of it matters or all circumstances are equal in moral gravity.

Starbucks is visible and easy to stop using…that is why it’s so convenient for the boycotters.

Sure, if some local outlet is selling cups of coffee with sayings that promote immorality that may be more pressing to an immortal soul than buying a pair of shoes that were produced somewhere in China and went through several layers of companies before someone here purchased them.

 

[AngelRose81]

I wholeheartedly agree with you!
Kathy

Thanks!