Starbucks??

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Lorik said:
Yes, your right. It’s easy, visible and convienient so why can’t more Catholics do it and make a statement that we will not tolerate companies that directly donate to Planned Parenthood.
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It would be a slippery slope…I would have to research every consumer purchase I ever make for the rest of my life to determine if my purchase violates any of the terms that would get it onto the LDI boycott list.

Lets say you buy your coffee at a store that is not on the list. The employee who serves you your coffee…they are pro-abortion and donate 10% of their pay cheque to planned parenthood. You by supporting that business, are providing the funds necessary to pay the employees, who give the money to planned parenthood…now what?
 
setitstraight said:
Ouch…an immoral quote on a coffee cup is more pressing to a serious boycotter, than a country with a checkered history of human rights abuses, religious oppression etc…
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It may be if the quote leads another into error or encourages one to sin. Companies advertize for a reason, it works.

The China example makes my point. Do you think one is formally cooperating in evil by buying shoes that say made in China when we are so far removed from the evil act? Does the money you pay directly contribute to the evil actions in China? It may and it may not.

That is why it is not fair to say these issues are all equal.
You have just proven my point - if you can’t see it, touch it or feel outraged…then it doesn’t even register on the morality radar for most people.
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That is why Starbucks is a target of the boycotters…the boycotters can see, touch and feel outraged.
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The closer one is to the source the more one has an obligation and the more one has a chance of changing things.
 
setitstraight said:
Lorik, I think your comment was presumptuous, uniformed and verging on the brink of being propaganda against the Microsoft Corporation.

The foundation that you think just hands out condoms has given over 13 billion dollars away in grants in a 12 year period. Secondly, your statement shows that you do not know what the foundation is doing with regards to HIV / Aids…certainly more than handing out condoms as you suggest. If your interested in learning more about the work the foundation does… gatesfoundation.org/AboutUs/OurWork/Learning/default.htm
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Are you advocating proportionalism? His foundation directly contributes to groups that attack life and promote the culture of death. This is a good example of what we are talking about. Support for his foundation would be much more immoral than buying sneakers at the mall made in China.

That is why we need to parse this carefully.
 
setitstraight said:
It would be a slippery slope…I would have to research every consumer purchase I ever make for the rest of my life to determine if my purchase violates any of the terms that would get it onto the LDI boycott list.

Lets say you buy your coffee at a store that is not on the list. The employee who serves you your coffee…they are pro-abortion and donate 10% of their pay cheque to planned parenthood. You by supporting that business, are providing the funds necessary to pay the employees, who give the money to planned parenthood…now what?
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I am talking about DIRECT contributions to Planned Parenthood by companies.
 
fix said:
Are you advocating proportionalism? His foundation directly contributes to groups that attack life and promote the culture of death. This is a good example of what we are talking about. Support for his foundation would be much more immoral than buying sneakers at the mall made in China.

That is why we need to parse this carefully.
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It seems as though I was correct - your condom reference was no accident…you were using this forum and the condom reference ,as an opportunity to undermine any good work by the Gates foundation.

I hope your using a MAC. I hope all the businesses you frequent don’t use a Microsoft Operating System…
 
setitstraight said:
It seems as though I was correct - your condom reference was no accident…you were using this forum and the condom reference ,as an opportunity to undermine any good work by the Gates foundation.

I hope your using a MAC. I hope all the businesses you frequent don’t use a Microsoft Operating System…
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So you do support proportionalism? As long as any “good” outweighs the bad then their actions are licit?

I refer you again to post #126 with a link to a Vatican letter that outlines moral reasoning in these cases. If one cooperates with places like the Gates Foundation in their work that directly supports contraception and abortion then one is formally cooperating with evil and that is sinful.

If one uses some of their products, without endorsing their evil actions, then one may be licitly cooperating in evil depending on the circumstances.

Again, it is not simply a matter of all things are equal. All support, indirectly, needs to be parsed out carefully.
 
fix said:
I refer you again to post #126 with a link to a Vatican letter that outlines moral reasoning in these cases. If one cooperates with places like the Gates Foundation in their work that directly supports contraception and abortion then one is formally cooperating
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Well said.
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At this point, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on a couple points…but we do agree on others.
 
setitstraight said:
Well said.
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You need to examine the concept of cooperating with evil. It is not simply that a middle man exists.
Furthermore, forms of proximate cooperation and remote cooperation can be distinguished, in relation to the “distance” – be it in terms of temporal space or material connection – between the act of cooperation and the sinful act committed by someone else. Immediate material cooperation is always proximate, while mediate material cooperation can be either proximate or remote.
zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=74741
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If you are a nurse in an abortion clinic assisting the physician you are very much more culpable than a UPS driver who delivers Rx pads to the office. Yes, how close one is to the act does matter greatly. How much one particpates matters. Our intentions matter.

Again, not every circumstance is identical.
 
setter said:
Bottom line: You offer no proposed solution, strategy or concrete actions other than “think about the issue” and continue buisness with companies that support immoral social practicies and agenda, lest one “potentially set you up for moral hypocrisy”. Your rationale sounds more academic than practical, as the beat goes on unencumbered for companies who continue to embrace and fund profits to support immoral social initiatives. What happened to the basic concept of rewards and punishment for good and bad behavior?

BTW – In your configuration, can you cite one example where you would outcome with a decision that the morally responsible thing to do is to withdraw funding a company who support immoral social initiatives.

Here is an example of one Christian organization that drew the line in the sand, had the courage to stand up and be counted, and made a difference. No overly complex equation here, only the exercise of fortitude to stand on the principles one proclaims.

msnbc.msn.com/id/15835445/
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I find it most revealing that setitstraight cannot identify one specific situation where he would as a Catholic take social action against a corporation that actively supports anti-gospel values. As the relevent quote attributed to Edmund Burke so poignantly states: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
 
Hey everyone…how about we take a coffee break??
:coffee::coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
Don’t you think this is getting a bit ridiculous?
Kathy
 
Who cares?

It’s a business… an incredibly successful business! The marketing dept. is only following the trends that will promote & expand the customer base… as any successful business does.

Honestly - if someone asked you for $85,000 only TEN years ago… to invest in a franchise that would sell flavored hot water for $3.85 a 12oz. cup you’d have told them to GET LOST!!!

Marketing & good business tactics = Goldmine.

(What kills me is the suckers that drive their 8mpg. "Hummer H2’s & SUV’s to Starbucks, willingly fork over $4 every morning for 12 OUNCES of coffee… then complain about gasoline being $2.35 a GALLON
 
Katie1723 said:
Hey everyone…how about we take a coffee break??
:coffee::coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
Don’t you think this is getting a bit ridiculous?
Code: 
  Kathy
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Yes, make mine a cappucino! It is getting ridiculous. I’ll buy what I want, when I want, from where I want with the money “I” earn. And those who don’t want to buy from Starbucks…don’t. I would just ask Catholics to go “incognito” when bellying up to the coffee bar at Starbucks…you could be under survailance by the “LDI” listers. shhhhhh…sip slowly and keep your face down:D
 
Julianna said:
Yes, make mine a cappucino! It is getting ridiculous. I’ll buy what I want, when I want, from where I want with the money “I” earn. And those who don’t want to buy from Starbucks…don’t.
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Yes, we hear you loud and clear …“mine! …mine! …mine! …”
I would just ask Catholics to go “incognito” when bellying up to the coffee bar at Starbucks…you could be under survailance by the “LDI” listers. shhhhhh…sip slowly and keep your face down:D
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Unless of course it is your conscience tapping you on the shoulder. 😃
 
Jay2 said:
Who cares?

It’s a business… an incredibly successful business! The marketing dept. is only following the trends that will promote & expand the customer base… as any successful business does.

Honestly - if someone asked you for $85,000 only TEN years ago… to invest in a franchise that would sell flavored hot water for $3.85 a 12oz. cup you’d have told them to GET LOST!!!

Marketing & good business tactics = Goldmine.
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It all comes down to the almighty dollar and economic advancement?
 
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