Staying, Leaving?

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theCardinalbird said:
I am sorry to hear about your experience. But let me just say this. You lost faith in man, I would not lose faith in Christ. Indeed there are many ravenous wolves, but Christ is still present in his Church. Do not leave Christ because of the actions of men. Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail over the Church, I would trust him and not abandon him.
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But these men act in persona Christi and are thought to be held to a higher standard than the laity.
 
Hope1960 said:
But these men act in persona Christi and are thought to be held to a higher standard than the laity.
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Yes but does this mean Christ is a liar? Do we jump ship because those who were supposed to be Shepard’s did evil? I think not. My faith relies on Christ and I try to model my life around him and the saints. We cannot excuse the greatness of the saints because of corrupt priests and bishops, and we cannot say Christ is a liar and that his Church is no more.

We have had bishops and priests who did wrong right from the start, and I still see the Church standing. I hope others do not leave
 
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You are very right, they should be held to a higher standard, definitely, but that will not keep them from falling into sin.

When a man becomes a priest, he does not stop being human and does not stop being tempted and many fall when temptations come.

We are all sinners and are all in need of God’s mercy.
 
Hope1960 said:
But these men act in persona Christi and are thought to be held to a higher standard than the laity.
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Yes, I do think they should be held to a higher standard in the same way we hold a doctor or pharmacist or an attorney to a higher expectation in their respective professional field. We shouldn’t hold their stature, being, or ability to do immoral things as unquestionable solely by nature of them being a cleric.
 
@clarkgamble1, I have had many bad experiences in the Church. I would leave for a time. But God always called me back. The Church was founded by Our Lord Jesus. The gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Some of the men who lead the Church were and still are evil. I firmly believe that God provides saints to call the Church and its leaders back to holiness. St. Francis of Assisi arrived at the right time to show the simplicity of a Gospel-based life. In the 14th century, St. Bridget of Sweden called on the popes to return to Rome from Avignon, France. St. Catherine of Siena continued the cause. And in 1377, the papacy returned to Rome. In the 16th century, St. Teresa of Ávila became an important figure in the counter-reformation. In other words, God will send saints in times of spiritual darkness. There are saints among us, on earth who are exhorting the church to improve. We just aren’t aware of their actions. No matter where you wind up spiritually, I pray for you to heal from these deep wounds. I had to do it as well.
 
You want to be in RCIA for a reason. God has called you. He wants you there. Learning about the Communion of the Saints helped me so much. I began to connect with them and ask for their intercession. And soon enough, I was pouring out my heart to the Blessed Mother. Cling to her. She will always point to her son. As she told the servants at the wedding feast at Cana: “Do whatever he says.”

Everyone in the pews is a sinner. The priests at the altars are sinners. Jesus would never turn you away from His Church. Feel free to PM me if you wish.
 
The response by most Catholic apologists to this crisis has been nothing short of disgusting. Over the years I’ve noted how they’ve avoided discussing the scandal, or have made lame justifications and excuses for it. With this current news which has rocked the Church, most Catholic apologists are still refusing to organize any action to force the Church to fire bad bishops and release chancery files. Every single apologist who makes his living from donations should simply quit and go back to being a Protestant if they care more about money than holding the Church accountable. Look for yourself and see which apologists are truly seeking action and real reform, and which are urging “patience and prayer” to “heal our wounds” along with the other useless verbiage. You’ll find very few who are truly on the side of the victims. No one should stand for it any longer, and no one should give a single dime to these professional Catholics until they show they’re not afraid of speaking the truth, however that might affect their income.
 
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If you don’t demand reform, then perhaps that is the real abandonment of this family. Jesus never told us to put up with sinners, his words about Judas are proof of that. Neither should we, after 20 years of knowing there’s a huge problem with priests and clerical secrecy, continue to just put up with it and hope these clerics someday will change if we pray harder. By the way, where did this idea about praying away the bad priests come from? It was the Curia’s response to the sex abuse crisis, and some of us are now repeating it as if it’s the only just course of (in)action. The time for just praying and tolerance is over.
 
No one is demanding that we “go,” but some of us are demanding that we demand real change from the Curia. The Curia has let us down, and it’s time to face that. How can we help the victims if we can’t tell them we are willing to demand the Church itself was at fault, and must change? We have to get the idea out of our heads that it’s wrong and sinful to criticize the Curia. Judas was one of the 12 apostles, and after his betrayal, Jesus didn’t say “Oh well, we are all flawed and broken, I guess we should just pray for Judas to mend his ways, someday.” No, Jesus said Judas was absolutely wrong. The Church is equally wrong in its defiance of our right to have errant clerics removed from holy orders.
 
I never said I don’t want reform.
I never said we should just put up with sinners.
I never said that just praying will change everything.
I never said that we can just pray away bad priests.
I never said guilty priests shouldn’t be punished.
And I certainly never said that we should do nothing.

What I basically said was that ME, MYSELF and I could have done a much better job of praying for our priests, and that I am staying.
 
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This horrendous scandal in our Church has caused me and all Catholics, great pain. I have had to rely on the strength of Jesus and hope in Him. This morning when I walked into Church for Mass, my eyes filled with tears…thoughts of those abused and those who will leave the Catholic Church and my own heartbreak tore at my heart…the reality became real.
But my hope is in Jesus, not in those who lead the Church. I know beyond all reason that Jesus will heal His Church.
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” Matthew 16:18
I am staying.
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But now, Lord, what do I look for? My hope is in you
Psalm 39:7

This is where I’m at for the moment. Still searching and looking towards the Lord
 
I believe @StephieNorthCo hit the nail square on the head with her post # 17.
StephieNorthCo said:
Staying. See John 6:68.
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68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?

69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

70 And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
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The truths of the doctrinal claims of the Catholic Church aren’t contingent upon the behavior of the clergy, so I’m staying until someone can actually disprove the doctrines of the Church [which isn’t likely to happen].
 
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