Sterilization followed by confession?

[Bookcat]

Having your uterus removed would do the trick. 100% effective.

very effective at killing the* life* that really counts too…

(and I know your not speaking of abortion…nor am I here…we both agree that such is quite evil)

 

[LaSainte]

LaSainte,

Wow, this is just degenerating into all out attack against the Church and what she teaches because you are busy justifiying your position. The Church cannot err in doctrine. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus also said He would be with the Church even until the end of the ages. If Jesus is Truth, which he is, guess what Truth will be with the Church. You cannot separate Truth and Jesus from the Church.

If there was ONE dogma, ONE doctrine that was false, guess what everything would be false. You start an logical argument on a faulty premise, guess what the entire logical argument if false. You cannot have one false thing in 100 true things and call all of it truth. The slightest lie or falsity in something makes it not true. A half-truth is ALWAYS a lie.

I can see why you claim that the Church does not have ALL the Truth in any given time. Heaven help you if you did, then where would you be with your practice of contraception? You would be up that creek without a paddle for sure!!! So the best thing for you to do in this circumstance is to deny the Church having all the Truth. It’s really a convienent cop-out and justification for a wrong choice you are considering to make.

God bless.

You’re right. We should all be open to having as many children as we happen to conceive. If NFP doesn’t work for us, oh well it was God’s will. What is the Church teaching on having a bunch of kids you don’t want and putting them all in a basket on the side of the road with a sign marked “Free Babies”?

 

[Bookcat]

An important text to ponder on this sort of question…read to the end

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

 

[Rence]

I love it. I must have psychological problems because having 6 kids sounds like my worst nightmare. THIS is what is so annoying. Not ALL women want to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. SOME women want to travel and work and study and write and be scientists and even be anthropologists and live among and study native people, or whatever. Some women’s talents and attributes don’t coincide with having a huge family and some people would be destroyed by it. Typical one-size-fits-all mentality.

Still, not one person has answered my question as to what they would do if they woke up and found out there was a Catholic teaching as offensive and immoral as I find the total ban on ABC. I WONDER WHY?

I’ll answer it. There are a small few Catholic teachings that I find offensive and immoral, repugnant even, (complete bunk even) but I choose to remain Catholic, and as long as I choose to remain Catholic, I follow the rules. Yes, sometimes it’s reluctantly, and yes, sometimes I feel like it’s under duress (can’t play in the club if you don’t follow the club rules), and I may get angry about it, but it’s still my choice to do so.

Some of those teachings don’t affect me thankfully, but they are troublesome for me because they affect others in a negative way (people like yourself who are truly hurting and stressing over certain rules of the Church), and I truly feel for those people. What I do is pray that someday there will be changes either in the Church, or in people’s lifes, to help people deal with the troubles they are having in life. What else can I do? That’s the best I can do because in the end, we all have a choice. Just like I have a choice, another person has a choice.

And who knows LaSainte, maybe someday in the future, I may encounter a situation in which these certain rules WILL affect me. Then I will have to make a choice, and I have no idea at this time what I would choose. Well I do in one senario, but that’s another thread But , hopefully, I will not be put to the test and the Holy Spirit will guide me. Because you know what? We are free to make our own choices. And no matter how boldly someone claims what one should do or shouldn’t do, the fact is, no one knows what they would do in another person’s situation. They can only tell you what they want you to do.

 

[manualman]

Yeah, here’s where the problem is. Unfortunately, this person will probably die in a state of mortal sin, not because contraception is a mortal sin, but because they would be denied absolution of any other mortal sins they committed for the rest of their lives. Nice.

You are attempting to find a loophole in the moral teachings of the Church and are resentful that you can’t do it? Seriously? Are you a lawyer by profession?

Sins are discrete. AFAIK, your contrite confessions for anything else can be forgiven.

But what’s the point? If a battlefield medic patches up 3 out of 4 of your massively bleeding wounds, you are still going to bleed to death.

If you’ve done this, go to confession anyways, confess it all (including the sterilization), admit your non-repentance for the sterilization and your opinion that you know better than the church on that issue and ask for his prayer and blessing. You maynot get absolution, but God works in funny ways sometimes. Maybe you’ll end up discovering a dimension to the world you hadn’t thought of before.

Besides, if you really are right and the Church has been wrong for 2,000 years on contraception, do you think God’s going to hold it against you? The sacraments were created to liberate us, not to constrain God. Go, confess, pray, listen. You’ve got nothing to loose but sins.

 

[silentstar]

I’ll answer it. There are a small few Catholic teachings that I find offensive and immoral, repugnant even, (complete bunk even) but I choose to remain Catholic, and as long as I choose to remain Catholic, I follow the rules. Yes, sometimes it’s reluctantly, and yes, sometimes I feel like it’s under duress (can’t play in the club if you don’t follow the club rules), and I may get angry about it, but it’s still my choice to do so.

Some of those teachings don’t affect me thankfully, but they are troublesome for me because they affect others in a negative way (people like yourself who are truly hurting and stressing over certain rules of the Church), and I truly feel for those people. What I do is pray that someday there will be changes either in the Church, or in people’s lifes, to help people deal with the troubles they are having in life. What else can I do? That’s the best I can do because in the end, we all have a choice. Just like I have a choice, another person has a choice.

And who knows LaSainte, maybe someday in the future, I may encounter a situation in which these certain rules WILL affect me. Then I will have to make a choice, and I have no idea at this time what I would choose. Well I do in one senario, but that’s another thread But , hopefully, I will not be put to the test and the Holy Spirit will guide me. Because you know what? We are free to make our own choices. And no matter how boldly someone claims what one should do or shouldn’t do, the fact is, no one knows what they would do in another person’s situation. They can only tell you what they want you to do.

do you sell all you have, give your money to the poor and come follow Jesus? if you don’t do this then I don’t see how you can claim you follow all the rules. I heard many many many sermons on the dangers of affluence growing up, concerns I do not see reflected on CAF.

When I heard sermons growing up I heard “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.” anyone with access to the internet and time to spend on CAF is very likely to be comfortable, yet, I see that you seem to have defined dealing with “comfort” out of the “rules” you need to follow.

 

[vsedriver]

The Church is only infallible concerning matters of revealed Truth (or matters that are necessary for our understanding of a revealed Truth) that concern faith and morals. I have yet to see a convincing argument that the total ban on contraception is in any way a matter of revealed Truth.

since contraception is a matter for morals what ‘convincing’ argument would you like to see? The Church has said that for sexual activity to be ‘moral’ it must be open to life since that is the purpose of sex as God made it. God’s purpose for sex is a revealed Truth.

 

[murphjos]

Oh you give me hope!!!

My 1st born had GERD and even after we got him on medicine for it he didn’t sleep because he associated laying down with pain. It took 13 months to teach him to sleep. We were zombies. Our daughter (second child) slept 6 hours straight the day she was born she is 30 months old and has never been awake between midnight and 6 AM. We now have a third who is also a great sleeper and by 8:30PM all three are soundly unconscious. Point is… You cannot base your expectations on previous experience. You may also find that if your next baby is a better sleeper, that the PPD is much more manageable.

 

[Corki]

You’re right. We should all be open to having as many children as we happen to conceive. If NFP doesn’t work for us, oh well it was God’s will. What is the Church teaching on having a bunch of kids you don’t want and putting them all in a basket on the side of the road with a sign marked “Free Babies”?

ok, you don’t do that. But what about adoption?

Seriously, you don’t get a “bunch of kids” all at once (unless you are the octa-mom). If you use NFP and find yourself pregnant anyway, you just go to another method or a more conservative approach.

 

[maryjk]

FWIW, hardly does not mean there are none.

The person in question has Myasthenia Gravis, Osteo Arthritis, Celiac, and Fibromyalgia at only 32 years old. She was hospitalized 3 times on her 4th pregnancy, after the doctors stressed that she should avoid another pregnancy because she was hospitalized several times on her 3rd one and I believe she was bed-ridden for the last 2-3 months of her pregnancy.

Her husband is a devout christian and a dear friend of mine. I fail to see his decision to become sterile as a mortal sin. But maybe that’s why (of many other reasons) I am no longer Roman Catholic. That is between him and God and no other imperfect and mortal man, IMHO. You can go rant against all other churches now, since the RCC is perfect and inerrant.

How about, since she is so sick, they avoid relations while she is fertile?

That is what I do.

You might also want to know that having Celiac should have nothing to do with being hospitalized while pregnant. Your friend should be avoiding wheat, rye and barley regardless if she is pregnant or not.

 

[vsedriver]

That said, your 16,17 or 18 or 19 year old daughter has a boyfriend and no matter how much you counsel against sex before marriage and told her that it was mortal sin and that she was condemning herself to hell, she has told you that she loves her bf and will be physical with him anyway. Would you sit there and tell your daughter that she needs to watch her cycle and use NFP??? I surely wouldn’t.

I wouldn’t either, but I would tell her that she is living in a state of sin and should she die she risks going to hell. Then I would ask her what are her plans for the children when she has them. Sure, she’ll say she’s using birth control and I’ll say so when it fails ala playing russian roulette what are her plans? I’d be pretty blunt and ask her if she feels she can kill her baby? or would she be able to be adult and loving enough to place her child up for adoption. or would she step up to the plate and raise that child as a single parent?

tough love but sometimes they need it.

Quoting the Catechism is one thing. Living in real life situations is another.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Sin is sin, you can’t make allowances for it without risking your immortal soul.

 

[sw85]

LaSainte, I know 100% where you are coming from. After my second was born, I came to this board for answers. I knew the Church taught contraception was wrong and that my parents didn’t use it, but in my area of the world where 95% of people are Catholic most use contraception. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find a Catholic in my area using NFP, and I have NEVER EVER hear a priest preach on birthcontrol. Anyways, I came here for answers.

What did I find?? The people on this board gave me more anxiety. I came here looking for comfort for my situation from other Catholics and never found it. I found much the opposite in fact. I had to step away from this board and find peace with my situation. That is what you need to do.

The Church isn’t God. It is not the Church who is going to judge you when you die. Do we worship the Church as an idol or do we worship God? As much as I love the Catholic church I don’t worship it. I worship God. We worship a merciful God who sees our hearts. I won’t get any support for my statement, because it is not part of the Catechism. And I will be shot down and killed on this board for that statement. The people on this board will condemn me to hell. That’s ok. If at the end of my life I have done the best I could to live a decent life, love God, live by his comandments then I have done well. If I stand in the judgement seat and he condemns me to hell…well…there will be alot of Catholics down there to play cards with. The bible does say that the road to heaven is narrow doesn’t it?? Truly LaSainte.,…I don’t believe anyone is really worthy of heaven. Not even those who follow the Catechism to the T!!!

This may seem off subject, but I would LOVE to know what percentage of people on this board are converts, what percentage have gone to Catholic school and what percentage are cradle Catholics who went to public school. I could be wrong, but it seems as though the converts are now the hard core Catholics who see no grey areas in life. I think that is great by the way. We do need people like that in the world.

Prayers your way LaSainte.

Speaking personally (I assume I am one of the “hardcore” types you are referring to ), I’m a recent convert. I have not yet even begun RCIA. My background is in philosophy: the classical essentialism of Plato and Aristotle; the scholasticism and natural law theory of Aquinas; and the fusion of the two in the modern Church, and its application to our daily life in the Catechism. I actually first was exposed to the teachings (late) in college, a year or two ago, when I looked up the Catechism for a research paper; I needed to cite the Church’s official position on some issue. I wound up reading most of it over the course of a few weeks.

Personally, I do not find *material *comfort in the Church’s teachings. There is none to be found, and those who do find it are only reading their own irrational prejudices into it. As I said earlier, the God of the Church is not the god of material things or worldly desires or personal convenience. He is the God of our souls. He is the King of all creation and He commands our obedience. And there is comfort in Him, but it is the comfort of knowing that we need not despair of our lot in life, because this world is a passing thing, cruel and dark but temporary, and when it has passed we will awaken from the nightmare and find ourselves at home. If that is where we truly wish to be.

I understand that I come off as dogmatic (that’s just my personality, and has been since long before I endeavored to join the Church). But there is no virtue in declining to defend that which is true. The Church’s teaching on contraception follows logically from natural law, and natural law is the basis for nearly everything the Church teaches. To reject that basis only insofar as it concerns contraception is to reject that basis for all its other teachings: for its teachings on abortion and murder and euthanasia and charity and everything else. It comes dangerously near rejecting God’s legitimate sovereignty over our lives, and to do so on the basis of a vaguely-formed intuition that He wills our material prosperity or worldly happiness (an assertion belied by much of the evidence available to us) is something I cannot even comprehend. It profits no man to give up his soul for the world.

Of course, I don’t presume to know God’s will for us beyond what He has already revealed to us Himself or enabled us to discover ourselves by the exercise of reason. But what has been revealed to us is quite clear on this matter. To reject it, obstinately and with full awareness of its gravity, is to invite separation from God.

I’ll continue to hope and pray that some good ultimately comes out of LaSainte’s suffering. We are fortunate to serve a God who can turn all things to good.

 

[vsedriver]

So, you would let your 16 year old daughter get pregnant and suffer the consequences?? Wow!!

God gave us common sense as well.

well, the parent isn’t ‘letting’ the daughter get pregnant. The daughter is doing that all by herself. And even if the parent gives the daughter birthcontrol that doesn’t mean the daughter won’t get pregnant.

If the daughter is sexually active then she will suffer the consequences of pregnancy sooner or later no matter what the parent does.

 

[vsedriver]

I think if your life is at stake and you have children, the moral choice is to be sterilized, period. NFP and ABC are far too risky and total abstinence in a marriage is ridiculous and even immoral.

my life was at stake. I had too many tumors on my uterus. After the second baby where I had to have a specialist I was told that a 3rd pregnancy would cause a uterine rupture and I could die.

we talked about total abstinence and NFP. We elected to do NFP. We were very, very careful. Then God blessed me with cancer. After the first round of chemo I was instantly sterile. No more fear of pregnancy. The loss of my fertility was the saddest day of my life.

So if a spouse becomes incapable of having sexual relations their marriage is immoral?

THAT is what I mean by taking having more kids off the table. I mean forever, with no chance of having more barring a miracle. So no, the Church does not permit that.

basically you want your cake and to eat it too. And the Church must be wrong because God would want you to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[vsedriver]

I was apparently very poorly catechized, so I never really had a chance to “grow up” knowing these teachings. I basically found out how “bad” contraception is supposed to be a few years ago,

don’t feel bad… I didn’t get it till I was 53!

So basically it was just sort of dumped on me that everything I have ever planned and wanted for my life (my degree, my goals, the way I have always wanted to raise my family) might as well be thrown in the toilet because now I’m just relegated to being “open” to having more kids than I can afford, more kids than I ever wanted, to giving up everything I have r dreamed of to possibly ending up a mother of 6 crying myself to sleep every night wondering what the heck happened to my life.

Life is what happens when you make other plans. There is no guarantee that you will ever have more kids. Things happen, like getting cancer, having chemo and being sterilized by the drugs within a month after having normal cycles all your life.

I do NOT NOT NOT want more than 2 kids. The only kid I like (and of course, my world revolves around him) is the one I have.

fortunately you aren’t required to like kids in general. You don’t even have to like relatives’ kids.

I still haven’t even bonded yet with the one in my belly and I’m 30 weeks preggo.

I’m sure your hormones are wreaking havoc with your emotions but if it is any consolation, it was two months after my second was born before I ‘bonded’ with him. He was unplanned especially since I was warned not to have any more after the first came and he was only 15 months after the first. Talk about close together!

If I had more than 2 or 3, I wouldn’t even want to get out of bed in the morning.

LOL! I know folks who only have 1 and say this. But what an opportunity to call on God for His strength to get you through the day!

I have studied in my field for nearly 20 years and the things I want to do with it are things I am very passionate about

.

I worked for 15 years in my field, moved up the ladder pretty quickly for a woman in a man’s field. Took 15 yrs off to raise my kids and found I couldn’t get back into my chosen profession even though I had not only kept up my skills but continued learning on the side.

What a waste! all those years in college, all those working years, and all that self taught time. But then a funny thing happened. A job came to me in a completely different field. Not only am I good at it, I like it! Great pay, good benefits and once again I am climbing upwards in a man’s field.

I put my trust in God to take care of me. I let go of my ambitions and let Him choose where I was to go.

Having 5 or 6 kids would literally ruin my life. Sorry if that sounds awful, but I know myself.

Having a 2 yr old and being late term pregnant would make anyone go nuts at the thought of 5 or 6 kids.

Add to that the fact that I have tried so hard to believe that God actually doesn’t want us using ABC to the point of it being a mortal sin to no avail. No matter what I read about infallibility or about the unitive and procreative nature of marital sex, no matter how I pray to God for clarity and assurance, I JUST don’t believe that ABC is a sin. I don’t.

Not my will but Thine be done. The hardest thing for any Catholic or Christian to do is trust God. We talk so much about obedience but rarely do we talk about trust. My great grandmother used to remind us constantly that God will not give us more than we can handle. But we must learn to trust in Him. If you are obedient to God’s will via Church teaching on ABC then you must put all your faith and trust in Him. How pleasing to God! How blessed will that person be?

You must let go of the control you have on your life and for the vast majority of people this is the most frightening thing a person can do. I know because I also struggle with this.

I think God wants us to be the best parents we can be to the kids we have, to the kids we want, and I believe that He also wants us to follow our OWN dreams and fulfill our own passions, not just throw our whole lives in the trash and live in misery because we can’t stop having kids we don’t want.

Do you really think not accomplishing your dreams and goals in life means you are trashing the life God gave you? My mother, a brilliant and gifted woman with scholarships galor gave up college to help her support her family which had 10 children. She did this as the second oldest and oldest girl. She married and had 6 children. She never went to college. She never got to try her dream of being a journalist and traveling around the globe. If you ask me, her career as a loving mother was more successful than Bill Gate’s career. She is richer than the richest man on earth. Smarter than any with multiple degrees and loved as few people in this world are loved.

What a wasted life she would have had if she had chosen a career over full time motherhood.

 

[vsedriver]

So basically, I am in a position of feeling like I have to go AGAINST everything I feel to be true, go AGAINST everything I have ever wanted for my life, go AGAINST what I know to be best for my own mental health and my family, to follow a teaching I think is complete bunk.

It is a very hard cross to bear. But is it a harder cross to bear than say someone who has SSA? What rewards you will reap in heaven when you let God guide your life?

People talk about it like I’m throwing what God wants for me in the garbage. It’s the opposite. I honestly and truly do not believe that God is against ABC.

yet in your heart you know the Church teaches what God is for and against.

I think the Church has WAY overstepped God’s mandate on this issue.

God said be fruitful and multiply. He did not say be fruitful and multiply only if you feel like it.

If I could talk to God face to face (not he Church, but God Himself) I believe I would hear a totally different story from Him, and if God Himself actually told me not to contracept, I wouldn’t even THINK about it. I would obey in a heartbeat.

Whatever you loose is loosed and whatever is bound is bound. Whoever hears you hears Me. The bible gives the Church the authority to tell us what God says.

The problem is, I cannot throw my life away over a Church teaching that I don’t KNOW or at least strongly BELIEVE comes from God. And I cannot for the life of me, no matter how hard I TRY, believe in this teaching.

Once again you feel you are throwing your life away. What job on earth has more value than that of a mother? What career can give you more joy or earn you more grace with God? Can you reap no personal satisfaction from mothering? Do you not know what a treasure you are now? A job will replace you in a heartbeat. They will dump you if technology changes and eliminates their need for you. They will dump you for age or even personality conflicts.

But your family will look to you with love and awe for the rest of your life. Again I know you are exhausted, living with wacky hormones and dreading some of the drudgery that comes with being a wife and a mother. The best job I ever had was being CEO of our home.

I envy my mother’s six stones in her mother’s ring to my mere two. She sacrificed her life for her children and the result of that is we took her to England twice. She will never spend a day in a nursing home. She will be loved and pampered till her dying day and she is very loved by God because she did His will and not her own.

I know that was excruciatingly long. Thanks for reading

for now, just put your fears for the future aside. Plan to enjoy your new baby. Trust God to care for you as you care for your family. You sound like a strong and determined woman. I think you can handle a lot more than you give yourself credit for.

 

[Corki]

FWIW, hardly does not mean there are none.

Exactly, which is why I followed up my “hardly” with an example of when it applied.

The person in question has Myasthenia Gravis, Osteo Arthritis, Celiac, and Fibromyalgia at only 32 years old. She was hospitalized 3 times on her 4th pregnancy, after the doctors stressed that she should avoid another pregnancy because she was hospitalized several times on her 3rd one and I believe she was bed-ridden for the last 2-3 months of her pregnancy.

Absolutely a serious reason to delay or avoid entirely another pregnancy.

Her husband is a devout christian and a dear friend of mine. I fail to see his decision to become sterile as a mortal sin.

“becoming sterile” is not a mortal sin. Sterilizing oneself is. Big difference.

That is between him and God and no other imperfect and mortal man, IMHO.

No argument here. It is between him and God and his decision is based on his conscience which, based on what you have said, is well formed.

I’ll answer it. There are a small few Catholic teachings that I find offensive and immoral, repugnant even, (complete bunk even) but I choose to remain Catholic, and as long as I choose to remain Catholic, I follow the rules. Yes, sometimes it’s reluctantly, and yes, sometimes I feel like it’s under duress (can’t play in the club if you don’t follow the club rules), and I may get angry about it, but it’s still my choice to do so.

Some of those teachings don’t affect me thankfully, but they are troublesome for me because they affect others in a negative way (people like yourself who are truly hurting and stressing over certain rules of the Church), and I truly feel for those people. What I do is pray that someday there will be changes either in the Church, or in people’s lifes, to help people deal with the troubles they are having in life. What else can I do? That’s the best I can do because in the end, we all have a choice. Just like I have a choice, another person has a choice.

And who knows LaSainte, maybe someday in the future, I may encounter a situation in which these certain rules WILL affect me. Then I will have to make a choice, and I have no idea at this time what I would choose. Well I do in one senario, but that’s another thread But , hopefully, I will not be put to the test and the Holy Spirit will guide me. Because you know what? We are free to make our own choices. And no matter how boldly someone claims what one should do or shouldn’t do, the fact is, no one knows what they would do in another person’s situation. They can only tell you what they want you to do.

This is an excellent post.

That said, your 16,17 or 18 or 19 year old daughter has a boyfriend and no matter how much you counsel against sex before marriage and told her that it was mortal sin and that she was condemning herself to hell, she has told you that she loves her bf and will be physical with him anyway. Would you sit there and tell your daughter that she needs to watch her cycle and use NFP??? I surely wouldn’t.

First of all, my own kids are pretty well grounded in the faith. They don’t need me to tell them that having sex before marriage is a mortal sin. And no one in his/her right mind tells a child she is “condemning herself to hell” for any sin she commits.

So, what would you tell her? That it’s ok to have sex as long as she is “careful”? Or would you point her to a famiy planning center and tell her they will set her up (wink wink)? Or would you go out and buy her birth control yourself?

 

[vsedriver]

SOME women want to travel and work and study and write and be scientists and even be anthropologists and live among and study native people, or whatever.

 

[Little_One0307]

Agreed I mean ultimately the Church is made up of humans. Humans that can make mistakes and misintepret. So the idea that one must throw out every teaching simply because one teaching was found to be flawed is silly. You donlt throw out alll the teachings you take a look at the flawed one and try to figure out where you went wrong!

Calliso,

Hi. The Church is made up of humans which make mistakes that is true. But as I have said in previous posts, the Church can not err in doctrines related to Faith and Morals. And as many posters have said this as well.

No teaching is flawed, if one was flawed they all would be flawed.

God bless.

 

[Corki]

FWIW, hardly does not mean there are none.

Exactly, which is why I followed up my “hardly” with an example of when it applied.

The person in question has Myasthenia Gravis, Osteo Arthritis, Celiac, and Fibromyalgia at only 32 years old. She was hospitalized 3 times on her 4th pregnancy, after the doctors stressed that she should avoid another pregnancy because she was hospitalized several times on her 3rd one and I believe she was bed-ridden for the last 2-3 months of her pregnancy.

Absolutely a serious reason to delay or avoid entirely another pregnancy.

Her husband is a devout christian and a dear friend of mine. I fail to see his decision to become sterile as a mortal sin.

“becoming sterile” is not a mortal sin. Sterilizing oneself is. Big difference.

That is between him and God and no other imperfect and mortal man, IMHO.

No argument here. It is between him and God and his decision is based on his conscience which, based on what you have said, is well formed.

I’ll answer it. There are a small few Catholic teachings that I find offensive and immoral, repugnant even, (complete bunk even) but I choose to remain Catholic, and as long as I choose to remain Catholic, I follow the rules. Yes, sometimes it’s reluctantly, and yes, sometimes I feel like it’s under duress (can’t play in the club if you don’t follow the club rules), and I may get angry about it, but it’s still my choice to do so.

Some of those teachings don’t affect me thankfully, but they are troublesome for me because they affect others in a negative way (people like yourself who are truly hurting and stressing over certain rules of the Church), and I truly feel for those people. What I do is pray that someday there will be changes either in the Church, or in people’s lifes, to help people deal with the troubles they are having in life. What else can I do? That’s the best I can do because in the end, we all have a choice. Just like I have a choice, another person has a choice.

And who knows LaSainte, maybe someday in the future, I may encounter a situation in which these certain rules WILL affect me. Then I will have to make a choice, and I have no idea at this time what I would choose. Well I do in one senario, but that’s another thread But , hopefully, I will not be put to the test and the Holy Spirit will guide me. Because you know what? We are free to make our own choices. And no matter how boldly someone claims what one should do or shouldn’t do, the fact is, no one knows what they would do in another person’s situation. They can only tell you what they want you to do.

This is an excellent post.

That said, your 16,17 or 18 or 19 year old daughter has a boyfriend and no matter how much you counsel against sex before marriage and told her that it was mortal sin and that she was condemning herself to hell, she has told you that she loves her bf and will be physical with him anyway. Would you sit there and tell your daughter that she needs to watch her cycle and use NFP??? I surely wouldn’t.

First of all, my own kids are pretty well grounded in the faith. They don’t need me to tell them that having sex before marriage is a mortal sin. And no one in his/her right mind tells a child she is “condemning herself to hell” for any sin she commits.

So, what would you tell her? That it’s ok to have sex as long as she is “careful”? Or would you point her to a famiy planning center and tell her they will set her up (wink wink)? Or would you go out and buy her birth control yourself?

By the way, NFP doesn’t make premarital sex less sinful. NFP is only understood in the context of marriage. If the young lady was engaged, she could be learning NFP but otherwise, it is really just as bad (IMO) to counsel an unmarried woman to use NFP to avoid a premarital pregnancy as to counsel her to get on the pill. There is no moral use of NFP outside of marriage.

There is La La land and there is the real world. I live in the real world. I understand that there is Church teaching and the people on this board are there to set people like me straight. However, it bugs me that people can sit there and throw the Catechism and act holier than thou and say it’s this way or the highway.

Sorry you feel that way. I haven’t seen any “holier than thou” posts in this thread but I know it happens. It’s unfortunate that everyone can’t be charitable all of the time (myself included) But the place is called Catholic Answers. If someone comes here, they should expect to get the actual Church answer.

There are SO many grey areas in life. Quoting the Catechism is one thing. Living in real life situations is another.

You are so right. And that’s why you often see the posts that say “talk to your priest” or “discuss this with your Spiritual Director” or “bring it up in Confession”. The Catechism is not an owners manual. It tells us the “what” but we need lots of prayer and counsel to get the “how” right. See Rence’s post above.