Stoicism and Mental Struggles hi

[Knightswhosayni]

It also leads to the wife’s preference to cut out sex all together, because she’s stressed and overwhelmed about life. And, then, guess what the church does? Makes her feel more guilty and horrible about that. Who cares about a women’s sanity. God’s design for the win! The man’s needs trump a women’s all days of the week. So what if you end up pregnant if you screw up on your NFP, it’s meant to be. Who loses here?
The woman carrying the baby does. I value kids, but Id rather not have sex then continue being anxious about this. I know Im being cruel, but it all feels pretty cruel to those struggling to just survive each day. There is no real wiggle room and mercy for women. Let’s make sex a chore, so you have one less thing in life for yourself and not be relaxed. Sex should be work, sacrifice, because God??

 

[Psalm30]

It also leads to the wife’s preference to cut out sex all together, because she’s stressed and overwhelmed about life.

I’m not quite sure why. You’ll need to elaborate a little more for me to understand what you mean.

Who cares about a women’s sanity. God’s design for the win! The man’s needs trump a women’s all days of the week.

No, a man’s needs don’t trump a woman’s needs. This notion does not come from Catholicism.

However, when done properly, God’s design sets up a woman to be less likely used for selfish purposes by the man in her life. But please note the emphasis on when done properly.

So what if you end up pregnant if you screw up on your NFP, it’s meant to be. Who loses here?
The woman carrying the baby does. I value kids, but Id rather not have sex then continue being anxious about this.

I realize you’re suffering. I’m very sorry for the pain you experienced in your childhood and the pain you’re experiencing now. However, I don’t think I can be of any help here, as I’m not going to say something contrary to the Church and tell you it’s okay to use contraception or engage in acts that aren’t ordered toward procreation.

 

[Psalm30]

Sex should be work, sacrifice, because God??

You don’t have to answer this here, but I’m wondering why you view sex this way?

 

[Knightswhosayni]

How about requiring unnecessary sacrifices are actually what is cruel and selfish? Not all sacrifices are good because the church authority said so. Personally, I think God has more mercy than his church. I don’t think if you’ve born four children and aren’t a fit mother that he condemns you tellhell for having your tubes tied. I haven’t tiedmy tubes, but I’ve sure considered it. My husband wouldn’t pay for that horrible sin anyway. You see how the church manipulates people’sfreedom and choices about their bodies? Because God. Live my life, and then preach to me.

 

[Psalm30]

How about unnecessary sacrifices are actually what is cruel and selfish? Not all sacrifices are good because the church authority said so. Personally, I think God has more mercy than his church.

Are we still talking about sex or something else?

If sex with one’s spouse is a “chore” or “sacrifice” I think something is wrong…

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m trying to understand what you’re saying.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

How is NFP not a chore? How is adding sex in like a to-do list not a chore? How is raising four kids and then expecting to have sex regularly not unrealistic? People can live without sex just fine. I’ll tell you who cant survive without sex, the church. If we don’t procreate for them, their won’t be anyone to fill the pews. Men can live without sex, priest do it. But, suddenly you have marriage and it’s a sin not to. Live my life, then you can preach to me how sinful it is. The only time I enjoy sex is when I’m away from home and no kids in sight or ear shot. So, to save my sex life, Im supposed to pay a babysitter how many times a month, so Ican actually enjoy my relationship? Oh, let me swap kids with my Catholic friends down the road, so I can have sex. That’s not awkward at all?? Or Icould have surgery, and go back to enjoying my life. Yes, the church is so right to make these requirements on us. Yeah…this is what God wants for marriage. Unrealistic, cruel nonsense.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

It’s one thing to go sterilize yourself because you hate kids or God. But, actually most people want to do so their relationships will improve. I followed all the rules and have been a good follower. It’s miserable

 

[Psalm30]

People can live without sex just fine.

Yes, yes they can. The Church will be the first to tell you that.

If we don’t procreate for them, their won’t be anyone to fill the pews. Men can live without sex, priest do it. But, suddenly you have marriage and it’s a sin not to. Live my life, then you can preach to me how sinful it is.

As I’ve said several times about other things you’ve posted on this thread, this is not Church teaching. If you think this is true, you have been misinformed, and anyone else who believes it/tells it to you is misinformed. If you have good reason to avoid pregnancy, complete abstinence is a moral option for you.

 

[Psalm30]

Yeah…this is what God wants for marriage. Unrealistic, cruel nonsense.

What exactly is your husband’s stance on all this and what is he asking of you?

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Yes, but I’ve always heard that you shouldn’t abstain for too long because the marriage suffers too much. I’ve always heard that from everyone. Josephite marriage is only for two people who completely agree to it. I’ve never heard anyone encourage that choice.

 

[Psalm30]

Yes, but I’ve always heard that you shouldn’t abstain for too long because the marriage suffers too much.

But that’s between you and your spouse. It’s not a blanket order that everyone must follow. My point is that the Church does not demand that married couples have sex as frequently as possible and pop out babies every nine months to fill the pews. That is a stereotype that the secular world and misinformed Catholics have of the Church, and it’s not accurate or true.

If the Church wanted her members to behave like the TV couples who have twenty children, she wouldn’t allow for the use of NFP or complete abstinence in marriage.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

I do know that isn’t the blanket expectation, but it is pretty frowned upon to choose the Josephite method. It’s pretty frowned upon to not want to be “that” wife whose so accommodating and on top of her life and the needs of others. And, let’s also be honest…husbands want sex. My husband isn’t a jerk about it , but this is all still a marriage problem. Men need it, and I really used to care, but I no longer do. I want it too be joyful, but it’s not. It’s a chore. And, you’re supposed to suck that part up. Yes, my attitude stinks. But, if I’m not Catholic, it’s normal, healthy to want to enjoy marriage and not be a martyr for the church.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Catholic marriage counselors and the Church do push NFP as the preferred, most loving choice. I have never once been advised to do anything else. In fact, it’s been discourage as an option.

 

[Psalm30]

but it is pretty frowned upon to choose the Josephite method. It’s pretty frowned upon to not want to be “that” wife whose so accommodating and on top of her life and the needs of others.

Once again…I’m not sure who’s telling you this. People on this forum? Catholics in real life?

And, let’s also be honest…husband’s want sex. My husband isn’t a jerk about it , but this is all still a marriage problem.

You still haven’t entirely answered my question about what your husband is asking of you. Is he demanding you have sex when you don’t want to? Does he pout during the fertile days?

Men need it,

Not Church teaching…

And you yourself pointed out celibate priests.

It’s a chore.

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand why. Because you might get pregnant? Because the kids are in the next room? You’ve said a lot of things and I’m not quite sure if I understand correctly what you’re trying to convey.

Catholic marriage counselors and the Church do push NFP as the preferred, most loving choice.

I don’t disagree. Have you had unplanned pregnancies with NFP? Do you not trust it? Or is it just too much work to do the charting?

 

[Knightswhosayni]

I have ADHD: charting, planning, decisions, even the most trivial are taxing. It’s ridiculous, but no less true. Yes, kids in the house on infertile days and having older children around staying up later(our kids have never had a reasonable bedtime, please dont ask why that hasn’t happened…my husband and I have had a complicated time scheduling and being on the same page about everything pertaining to all of that). I cannot relax and be a wife with kids around. I probably need to get back on meds in general. I’m anxious all the time about everything that needs to be done.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

Yes, by having sex on a fertile day, I became pregnant when my mother had just died in Nov, during Christmas time which is the most horrible, stressful time of the year. I had the worst depression of my life during this pregnancy. I wasn’t an accessible, loving mother(I’m still pretty much alienating my children). You have no idea how low this time was like. I’m way past it, but not because of the church. Therapy and working on my perspectives is all that’s helped. And, I’m still a mess as far as organizing and mothering four kids. Surgery would’ve kept me sane, but that’s life. I’ve accepted it and moved on. Christian’s have little to no sympathy for people’s realities. God does, not people. He is not his institution. He is much better and more perfect.

 

[Knightswhosayni]

My husband wants to be together on as many non-fertile days as possible. If our kids actually all went to bed at 8, maybe, but guess what? That NEVER happens. It’s called activities followed by homework. And, besides someone usually wakes up at the wrong time, etc., etc. He doesn’t pout anymore, he know’s it’s pointless. He does ask on infertile days. Icant relax in this chaotic kid, house is a mess, always something that needs to be done misery. No thank you!! I want to be alone in a cave, thank you very much!

 

[Psalm30]

I have ADHD: charting, planning, decisions, even the most trivial are taxing. It’s ridiculous,

No, it isn’t ridiculous. I have depression and undiagnosed ADHD and I experience the same thing. My house, for one, is a disaster because carrying a dish to the dishwasher can often feel like running a marathon. I know exactly how you feel.

Yes, by having sex on a fertile day,

Ok, I really do understand how you feel. My first child was conceived at, let’s just say, not a good time. We were newlyweds, abstinence was hard, and we gave in on two fertile days. I was devastated. It did a number on my mental health, and even now, seven years later, I’m not sure I’ve fully recovered, to tell you the truth. And no, it likely wouldn’t have happened if contraception was allowed. I really love my son, and I wouldn’t trade him for anything. I’d do it all over again to have him. But I’d be lying if I said the whole experience was good for my already fragile mental health, or that I was prepared to be a mother at that time.

And yes, NFP charting was taking a toll on my mental health. I used the Creighton Method, and I obsessed over fertile signs vs. infertile signs. However, after my first son was born I switched to the Marquette Method. There is no interpretation—just simple, objective readings by the monitor. I use it now stress-free. My second son was completely planned and we have had no surprise babies with it so far.

 

[Psalm30]

My husband wants to be together on as many non-fertile days as possible. If our kids actually all went to bed at 8, maybe, but guess what? That NEVER happens. It’s called activities followed by homework. And, besides someone usually wakes up at the wrong time, etc., etc. He doesn’t pout anymore, he know’s it’s pointless. He does ask on infertile days. Icant relax in this chaotic kid, house is a mess, always something that needs to be done misery. No thank you!! I want to be alone in a cave, thank you very much!

Can you pick an infertile day to drop off the kids with friends or something? You don’t need to tell them it’s because you and your husband are having sex. You can just tell them it’s a date night.

 

[CelticWarlord]

I hadn’t realized before that a lot of the practices of Stoics resemble those of Christianity.

I studied a bit on the stoics a few years ago and came away feeling there were definitely a few things which I as a Christian could take into my realm of behavior. I agree with some of the other comments here but would say that we are all in our own lifeboat, so to speak, and if there is anything which helps us along, encourages us to be better people, and which makes life in general more bearable (I also suffer from mental health issues), then they are there for our use.