Stopped believing in God

[Delusioned]

If you break into a store and steal all their cash, you shouldn’t be surprised if you end up in jail. Really, it’s that simple. What is there to argue about?

And if I give all that I have to feed the poor, and to serve the downtrodden, I shouldn’t expect to spend eternity in hell because I didn’t believe in the right God.

 

[PennyinCanada]

And if I give all that I have to feed the poor, and to serve the downtrodden, I shouldn’t expect to spend eternity in hell because I didn’t believe in the right God.

Christ said in the scripture that when you did it to the least of these, you did it to me.
Why are you so angry?
Mother Teresa’s sisters do that every day. Would you like to become a sister or brother? It’s available to you.

 

[Wesrock]

Wesrock:

Perhaps there could be better explanations for the contemporary layperson, but the why requires some basic theology. It’s unavoidable. God’s relation to creation, what God is not, what Man is, what is fulfilling for man, what is human dignity, man’s ultimate ends, etc… all needs to be grasped as pieces to the puzzle.

And therein lies the problem, because for some of us, the more complex your explanation becomes, the more unbelievable it becomes. It’s a simple question, asked of a simple God…why?

It’s an easily asked question, but it’s not a simple question. Neither is theology supposed to be simple.

And the answer isn’t complex in the way the legal laws and precedants of the laws of the United States is complex, but it does require significant reflection and thought. Oftentimes the more fundamental the concept, the less it can be distinguished and broken down into finite parts, the more reflection it requires.

 

[CapitalistCatholic]

I have a reasonable hope that those who do care for the poor and downtrodden are accepted into heaven, so I guess that’s that.

 

[Wesrock]

PennyinCanada:

If you break into a store and steal all their cash, you shouldn’t be surprised if you end up in jail. Really, it’s that simple. What is there to argue about?

And if I give all that I have to feed the poor, and to serve the downtrodden, I shouldn’t expect to spend eternity in hell because I didn’t believe in the right God.

Two things, that’s misrepresenting the idea of hell and conflating niceness with meriting perfection.

 

[Wesrock]

PennyinCanada:

Mother Teresa’s sisters do that every day. Would you like to become a sister or brother? It’s available to you.

I wouldn’t want to emulate Mother Teresa. Sometimes we believe in an idealized reality without knowing it. If I choose to serve, I’ll do it in my own way, and not be concerned with what others may think of it. That is what the OP is really doing…trying to find her own way…and not the one prescribed for her by a church.

Catholics and Orthodox understand the Church to be more than the sum of its human parts. It is God’s instrument on Earth for guiding men and women towards personal holiness.

 

[Delusioned]

Two things, that’s misrepresenting the idea of hell and conflating niceness with meriting perfection.

I realize that I oversimplify at times, we all do. But the question that underpins the OP…is why?

 

[vsedriver]

People are in hell simply because they haven’t accepted your version of God. Not because they’ve rejected love, and faith, and hope, and compassion. You may have convinced yourself otherwise, but people such as the OP realize the hypocrisy of your position, and they’re rightfully unwilling to accept it.

that is not correct. They are in Hell because they rejected God. I don’t think you understand what we mean by God in the Catholic Church. If someone has never heard of the Christian God, yet tries to live an honorable life, following the moral law written on our hearts they can still be saved.

The parable of the son who said ‘no’ to his father yet went out and did the will of the father is saved but the son who said ‘yes’ to the father but did not do his will was not saved.

You can’t reject what you don’t know or understand. The OP does not know God and does not know Christ. She knows OF them but doesn’t KNOW them. And that is a struggle for many people even people who have believed all their lives.

I knew of God and Jesus from childhood. Had a Catholic school education and all the sacraments. Went to church and followed all the teaching of the church. Even the ones I didn’t understand. But I didn’t come to KNOW the Lord until the Holy Spirit opened my heart at the age of 59.

 

[vsedriver]

It’s a simple question, asked of a simple God…why?

it’s a simple question for God but a complex answer for man.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

But the question that underpins the OP…is why?

Let me offer my understanding. On death, we come before the heavenly gates. God opens them for us, offering perfection and full communion with Him. In order to enter, we must detest our sinfulness and accept Him fully. The problem is that when we die, our hearts are fixed. If we don’t turn away from our sins in this life and try to be better, try to emulate God’s perfection, try to seek Him, we won’t turn away from our imperfections before the gates. The idea of spending even a moment in the full presence of God would be disgusting, because we’d be too attached to our imperfections to let go of them. So, those who accept the gift enter heaven. Those who reject it aren’t forced to accept it, because that’s not loving. Instead, they leave. The only other place to go for them is hell. That’s how people go to hell, they’re so attached to imperfection that they reject perfection and, as a result, enter hell.

 

[HeDa]

“The God you do not believe in, does not exist.” It is a quote from a very vise priest and I can’t remember who. It is about what our imagination of who God is that needs to be challenged so that the real God can appear.

 

[CapitalistCatholic]

Yeah, I apologized earlier for that. It was impulsive and I shouldn’t have said it.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

One can reject the Christian notion of a seemingly judgmental God for sincere and understandable reasons, not simply because one has never heard of Him.

Rejecting that god and feeling comfortable not seeking the real God means you aren’t actually trying to seek God in your life.

 

[Fauken]

Some may seek Him in a Church, while others may seek Him in their hearts.

Those are not at all exclusive. They go together.

If you understand God to be love, then to seek to love others, and life, and creation, and self…then isn’t this in itself seeking God?

A dog is not God. I am not God. A tree is not God. You may love all of these things, but they are not God. What did God say? “If you love me, you will keep my Commandments.” And which of these is the very first?

God is love, and God is truth. You cannot love God while simultaneously preferring lies about Him over what is actually true. To put it another way, can I truly say I love Jesus when I believe He’s a purple dolphin? It’s a ridiculous example, but Jesus is obviously not a purple dolphin. You don’t actually love someone if you don’t at least know them for who they really are.

 

[vsedriver]

But to me this really misrepresents the Catholic doctrine, and for a large part the entire Christian doctrine of who gets to heaven.

no it doesn’t. It’s not one size fits all.

Because it really shouldn’t matter whether one has heard of the Christian God or not. One can reject the Christian notion of a seemingly judgmental God for sincere and understandable reasons, not simply because one has never heard of Him.

it matters as to whether you understand just who the Christian God is. If you have a full understanding of who God is and reject him then it won’t matter how kind or compassionate you are in this life. You will not be saved. You can’t be saved by any action you do on your own. Good works only count when they go hand in hand with accepting Jesus and following him. Only then do they have merit.

If you’ve never heard of Christ or have never heard of the Christian understanding of who God is then you are not rejecting God. You can’t reject what you don’t know. Therefore you can still be saved. That is Catholic doctrine. You are still not saved by your own works but by the grace of God. It would not be just for God to condemn someone over something they have no control over.

 

[vsedriver]

One can reject the idea of Christian baptism, without rejecting the love and compassion that I would think are the true hallmarks of Christ.

if you understand what Baptism is and still reject it then you can’t be saved. But from your arguments I think you don’t know what a Catholic means when we say you must ‘understand’ what it is that you are rejecting. And how much greater in the eyes of God is the one who says, “I don’t understand, but I accept and obey.”

One can reject the Catholic Church without rejecting the tenets of the one who is supposedly its head.

If you know and understand that the Catholic Church is the body of Christ and then reject the church you are in essence rejecting Christ. And you are rejecting the tenets taught by Jesus himself.

But for many Christians it seems, rejecting baptism into the Christian or Catholic religion is tantamount to rejecting Christ Himself.

correct, because it is just that. A rejection of Christ.

It’s not so much the idea of Christ that people reject, it’s those who claim to speak in His name that they reject.

then it is good to examine their claims to speak in His name. Scripture tells us how to do this. Do they have apostolic succession? Because Jesus clearly gives authority to his apostles who clearly passed that authority on to their successors. If they are successors of the apostles then they have the authority to teach and preach in his name.

For me, I don’t believe that I need nor want your Church. I will believe as I choose to believe, and live as I choose to live

it’s your choice. I know many who think like you do. The hardest thing for us to do is to trust God completely and surrender to his will. We sure like to be in charge and pick and choose how we will have our relationships defined.

If that falls short of some supposed threshold, then judge me accordingly.

Well the threshold is clearly defined for us so we don’t have to guess what our mark should be. No one will judge you here, not even the church. Only God can judge you. But we can lie to ourselves. We’ll never be able to lie to God. As my sister once told me, “What I am doing is good enough, God is merciful and I rely on that”. She didn’t want to be involved in church either. Too hard, too much time, too many rules. She was good enough and she trusts that God will see it her way. I sure hope so for her sake. I still love her and I still tell her she is missing out on the best thing ever. But she likes to be in control and surrendering control is going to be very hard to do. But there is always hope!

 

[vsedriver]

So the question is, can I reject you and your Church, and still be saved?

you can reject me all you want. I choose, out of love for God, to live as God has asked me to which is to love him with my whole heart, my whole soul, and my whole mind and my neighbor as myself. All I can do is love you enough to tell you that you can be saved and here is the path to salvation all spelled out for you by God himself. Beyond that, it’s all up to you. So you can go for the sure bet or to gamble on the longshot.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

Do you think Jesus was silly when he taught about hell?

Who was more loving than Jesus?

 

[Servant31]

Hey Lucy how are you? Firstly I think your asking a good question if I’m hearing you correctly. It’s that “how can God, who is all love send someone to hell for eternity for things done in this life? That seems unjust.” If I got it right I would answer in this way. God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell. Some people however are so obstinate that they reject God and by default end up there. God is Goodness, love, growth, order… He wants us to love Him (goodness) and each other in heaven for all eternity. Think of a school. It’s a good school that takes care of its students. The teachers are great, there are fun activities… just a nice place to be. Sometimes the other students make mistakes sure, but on the whole everyone is getting along, and good to each other. Now one or two students think it’s a great idea to just punch a fellow student in the head. No real reason, they just think it’s funny. The teacher disciplines the student to correct the behavior, but also to protect the other students. After being disciplined the student does it again. Then again. “Don’t tell me what to do”. “Don’t impose your worldview on me!” “A psychologist on tv told me I have a genetic predisposition to punching and YOU are denying me my biology!” The teachers and schoolmaster finally, after many, many, many, attempts to help this child, remove him from school. You simply can’t have students threatened in school every day. That isn’t just. They don’t want to, but they must maintain a loving environment.
This is obviously a simplistic example, but in a way it’s how I view God, trying to help us every which way. But we need to adapt to goodness, to grow, to learn. If we do this heaven awaits. If we just say “no I’m going to keep punching people and no one can tell me to stop” then eventually the school can’t keep us there. That is what sin is in a way. Being kicked out of school means your on the street with no protection, no future, no help. This isn’t what God wants at all, but again Heaven is a place of goodness, a place of purity, love, and order. If they let in people to hurt others then it wouldn’t be that way anymore. Do keep wrestling with questions and look to seek a God, you may find that He us more of what your looking for than you maybe think, I know I always have. Best regards, praying for you as well.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Rejecting that god and feeling comfortable not seeking the real God means you aren’t actually trying to seek God in your life.

If somebody knows what the Church actually teaches God to be and they reject that, then they’re not gonna go to heaven because they’re rejecting God. It doesn’t matter what they believe God actually is, they’re rejecting God with full knowledge and consent, and are thus committing grave sin.