Straight kids should not be bullied

[Julianna]

I have to heartily disagree. Teenagers learning how to behave in a Christ-like manner has nothing to do with moral relativism or broken homes. Behaving in a loving manner or being friends with a LGBT person has nothing to do with any specific ideology - it has to do with following the Gospels. BTW, I haven’t seen one case where a straight student ‘caught’ gayness.

Yep…exactly :yup:

 

[signit]

BTW, I haven’t seen one case where a straight student ‘caught’ gayness.

Since you mention it, I seriously think that’s part of some people’s objection.

Maybe somebody really thinks that it spreads like a disease. Maybe that’s why they don’t want boys with SSA in the Boy Scouts.

Or at least they might think that if you have an anti-SSA bullying program other kids are going to “turn gay” because it’s “cool.” Somebody came close to saying that in a thread a while ago.

(conversation between two teenagers follows)

“Well, what do you think, Dan?”

“Hey, this gay stuff sounds like a lot of fun! I ought to check it out!”

Just think of how ludicrous that sounds.

 

[Havard]

Since you mention it, I seriously think that’s part of some people’s objection.

Maybe somebody really thinks that it spreads like a disease. Maybe that’s why they don’t want boys with SSA in the Boy Scouts.

Or at least they might think that if you have an anti-SSA bullying program other kids are going to “turn gay” because it’s “cool.” Somebody came close to saying that in a thread a while ago.

(conversation between two teenagers follows)

“Well, what do you think, Dan?”

“Hey, this gay stuff sounds like a lot of fun! I ought to check it out!”

Just think of how ludicrous that sounds.

The only concern I see, which has already been expressed, is the moral acceptance of the gay lifestyle.

 

[TimeEntrance]

As a radical libertarian/anarchist, I shared some of your same frustrations with progressive or even self-professed Marxist professors in college.Forgive me for being blunt, but comparing the suffering of a white male conservative in the to that of blacks or individuals with SSA, etc. is just ridiculous and besides your brethren, no one is going to take your complaints seriously, nor should they.

I don’t agree with that. It also seems to violate the Golden Rule.

It seems to me to be a politically motivated attitude and one rather cold at that. Bearing in mind what may not bother you as much may bother another individual to a much greater extent.

Speaking the truth has consequences. At least you are not bullied for what is an intrinsic part of your person, one which you cannot escape. Fortunately for us, we are often able to avoid such confrontations by simply recognizing that this is not the time/place to be discussing doctrine. For the individual with the “wrong” skin color or gender or natural mannerisms, there is no escape.

You can not change your skin color but I don’t subscribe to the belief one can not change their mannerisms associated with the feminine gender.

Poor parenting abounds. I see it all around me in Milwaukee. Something like speech stuttering or rolling your eyes can be overcome with work. Some parents may not care or may subscribe to determinist attributes of behavior. But such parents do not produce Tiger Woods of the golf course.

As in Karate… there are no bad students just bad teachers.

I’m sure my mother would have allowed me to prance around like a girl as a boy if I had done so. But for whatever reason I resolved early on to not and pulled myself up by my own moral bootstraps. Not everyone will be successful at that though. And for whatever psychological reasons some cue in very directly, and go onto identify with the opposite gender of their biological sex.

Catholicism regards this as a vice.

But irrespective of what Catholicism thinks about possessing the opposite gender of your biological sex it can have consequences in the near or far future slightly like the butterfly effect. If the effeminate gay male has sex with a woman (and some may) and produces a male child with her, this can negatively impact the boy as he grows up, as his father is the subject of public ridicule by his peers or by adult men walking in parking lots. Girls and women may make negative comments as they pass by too.

That said, I understand some males are going to be effeminate. But I understand some kids are going to be obese too. I understand some people are going to end up with incurable STDs and some are going to become drug or alcohol addicted. Such is life.

As a parent I am to guide my child to the light–if I am a good life coach I my child should arrive at the figurative Superbowl one day. If my child fails it was because of my failure somewhere. And thus it is. And thus I’ll answer to God.

 

[livingwordunity]

But, if there was a general anti-bullying campaign, somebody might say we shouldn’t include SSA students as a protected class.

They don’t get bullied any more than straight kids do. Like I have said, I got bullied a whole lot when I was a kid, and I’m straight. They called me very mean things like “monkey face”. I don’t think it’s possible to say anything more hurtful than that to a kid. I also got beat up at times. And I’ve personally witnessed many other straight kids get bullied. In fact, I’ve seen more straight kids get bullied than “gay” kids in my time growing up. So why do they need to be a special protected class? I thought that “gays” wanted “equality” and not special treatment.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

They don’t get bullied any more than straight kids do. Like I have said, I got bullied a whole lot when I was a kid, and I’m straight. They called me very mean things like “monkey face”. I don’t think it’s possible to say anything more hurtful than that to a kid. I also got beat up at times. And I’ve personally witnessed many other straight kids get bullied. In fact, I’ve seen more straight kids get bullied than “gay” kids in my time growing up. So why do they need to be a special protected class? I thought that “gays” wanted “equality” and not special treatment.

Do you have anything to back up that bolded statement? I’m sorry that you were picked on. I am very petite and I was called midget in high school. I didn’t want to commit suicide over it, I do know kids who wanted to kill themselves because they were picked on so badly about who they were attracted to. Where most people here are for support groups of all kinds to help kids out, you seem like you DON’T want LGBT support groups.
If I were to go somewhere and talk about things that bother me, I would want to do it in a group where people went through the same thing I did. I don’t think a huge support group at a school would help. Smaller groups are better.

 

[livingwordunity]

Do you have anything to back up that bolded statement? I’m sorry that you were picked on. I am very petite and I was called midget in high school. I didn’t want to commit suicide over it, I do know kids who wanted to kill themselves because they were picked on so badly about who they were attracted to. Where most people here are for support groups of all kinds to help kids out, you seem like you DON’T want LGBT support groups.
If I were to go somewhere and talk about things that bother me, I would want to do it in a group where people went through the same thing I did. I don’t think a huge support group at a school would help. Smaller groups are better.

Do you have something to back up the claim that “gays” get bullied more than straight kids do? I’m saying there’s no evidence for it. But I have what I’ve seen and experienced first-hand which I think is better than someone who only relies on what they read in a book written by so-called “experts” who are probably driven by an ideological agenda and might have never experienced it first-hand. There are more than a thousand reasons why a straight kid could get bullied. So it doesn’t make sense to assume that the number of straight kids getting bullied would be less than the number for “LGBT” kids. The reason kids bully is because one kid is different in some way than the rest of the group. If a kid in a school is different because they identify as “LGBT” that’s only one of over a thousand possible reasons why they might get targeted by a bully.

 

[triumphguy]

Well, it looks like I’ve gotten everyone here to agree that instead of having an LGBT anti-bullying campaign or a straight anti-bullying campaign, it should just be a campaign against all bullying instead of focusing on one particular group. I think we all can agree with that, right?

Not necessarily - because sometimes you need to raise awareness of what IS bullying in a particular situation.

That’s why there’s 10 commandments and not just one saying DON’T SIN.

So I believe there should be separate campaigns for different types of bullying.

 

[triumphguy]

Do you have something to back up the claim that “gays” get bullied more than straight kids do? I’m saying there’s no evidence for it. But I have what I’ve seen and experienced first-hand which I think is better than someone who only relies on what they read in a book written by so-called “experts” who are probably driven by an ideological agenda and might have never experienced it first-hand. There are more than a thousand reasons why a straight kid could get bullied. So it doesn’t make sense to assume that the number of straight kids getting bullied would be less than the number for “LGBT” kids. The reason kids bully is because one kid is different in some way than the rest of the group. If a kid in a school is different because they identify as “LGBT” that’s only one of over a thousand possible reasons why they might get targeted by a bully.

Really - your source please?

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Do you have something to back up the claim that “gays” get bullied more than straight kids do? I’m saying there’s no evidence for it. But I have what I’ve seen and experienced first-hand which I think is better than someone who only relies on what they read in a book written by so-called “experts” who are probably driven by an ideological agenda and might have never experienced it first-hand. There are more than a thousand reasons why a straight kid could get bullied. So it doesn’t make sense to assume that the number of straight kids getting bullied would be less than the number for “LGBT” kids. The reason kids bully is because one kid is different in some way than the rest of the group. If a kid in a school is different because they identify as “LGBT” that’s only one of over a thousand possible reasons why they might get targeted by a bully.

Woah, you need to take a chill pill.
If I gave you a statistic, it seems like you will just say they are so-called “experts” so there is no point in that. The gay kid could be picked on for more than just being gay.
I went to a VERY small high school. Everyone got picked on for something. The star quarterback got picked on because his momma brushed his hair our 8th grade year for a homecoming picture after the game. He was picked on for that, well, he is still picked on for that. If it bothered him, he should have a support group who are picked on for being momma’s boys.
It still seems like you are all for straight kids to have support groups, but aren’t for kids who are gay.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

So I believe there should be separate campaigns for different types of bullying.

 

[Havard]

Not necessarily - because sometimes you need to raise awareness of what IS bullying in a particular situation.

That’s why there’s 10 commandments and not just one saying DON’T SIN.

So I believe there should be separate campaigns for different types of bullying.

This is where the principle of subsidiarity could be really helpful. Different communities have different problems. In some areas, immigrant children are particularly bullied, for example.

 

[livingwordunity]

Not necessarily - because sometimes you need to raise awareness of what IS bullying in a particular situation.

That’s why there’s 10 commandments and not just one saying DON’T SIN.

So I believe there should be separate campaigns for different types of bullying.

Then there need to be over a thousand different campaigns going. Or we can look at the root psychology of why kids bully other kids.

 

[triumphguy]

Then there need to be over a thousand different campaigns going. Or we can look at the root psychology of why kids bully other kids.

Or we can help the most vulnerable -

We all know that abuse on the grounds of race, religion, disability is verboten.

Now it’s time for probably the most vulnerable group - the ones who commit suicide the most, like the kid whose funeral I went to in September - kids with SSA, or who look like they have SSA.

BTW understanding the psychology of sin doesn’t stop sin. Understanding the psychology of bullying isn’t going to stop bullying - and how are we to do that if we are not allowed by you to rely on the “experts?”

 

[TimeEntrance]

They don’t get bullied any more than straight kids do. Like I have said, I got bullied a whole lot when I was a kid, and I’m straight. They called me very mean things like “monkey face”. I don’t think it’s possible to say anything more hurtful than that to a kid. I also got beat up at times. And I’ve personally witnessed many other straight kids get bullied. In fact, I’ve seen more straight kids get bullied than “gay” kids in my time growing up. So why do they need to be a special protected class? I thought that “gays” wanted “equality” and not special treatment.

I genuiunly regret that you were torment as a young, developing kid, Livingword. Regardless of that fact that I don’t know you. I was always more sensitive than I should be, so, it affected me when I saw people being bullied or beaten up. Sometimes I would laugh along with a crowd mocking the person I felt very bad for. But I didn’t have the courage then to take on the cross of breaking with the pressures of my peers.

While I experienced some bullying as a young kid and young adult, due to having been smaller back then. Below U.S. male average in most physical aspects of body build. In other words, I was short and thin. I was fortunate in that I’ve always attracted the strongest males around me. At least segments of them. So, I’ve always had alpha males that liked me. That meant other alpha males tended not to want to fight other alphas and therefore left me alone.

But I also resolved at a very early age to change what I could about my physical build. I was only successful to a very minor degree. I would have been a lot more successful had I knew the better way to train and pack on muscle. And I spent years lifting–largely in less productive ways.

It’s often difficult and painful being part of the unacceptable group. Life can be incredibly cruel.

But I think to address life’s cruelties and injustices it’s good and needed to have people focused on different elements. For example, I don’t have animosity against those that would seek relief for “fat” kids by encouraging institutions and society and their peers to stop being mean towards overweight kids (although, I’m against promoting obesity as acceptable) . That path does not interest me. I’d rather see the kid lose weight.

One can wax sympathetically about how the world should change and never should anyone ever treat poorly an overweight, gay, effeminate, stuttering kid that can’t read.

The fact is is life would prosper much more, he’ll be more happy, if at minimum he could overcome of few of those things if not all. Or I think in Christian scripture it says somewhere, “To have life and to have it more abundantly.”

Imagine the kid become a young man that is well built (fit), straight, masculine, speaks clearly, and reads well?

There’s been a campaign going on for a little while now to promote self esteem in obese women. Which is not bad per se. The problem is it’s a movement to get young men and women to view obese women as perfectly healthy and physically attractive.

A lot of overweight (not a little overweight) women have failed time and again to lose weight or stay on diets. Their solution? “I’m just born this way, and I’m perfectly healthy being 280 or 300 pounds, and every one should love me.”

I remember getting into a disagreement with an admittedly overweight woman about this online. I angered people of course. She pasted up quotes or websites promoting that everyone teach their sons to find overweight girls as attractive as slimmer girls.

I said “no.” And nor would I indoctrinate my son into nonsense. The overweight person like the drug addict ought to stay in the struggle, no matter how many failures, to overcome their problem. And the glory ought be in the final win. The overcoming.

I’m sure she would rear her son with that indoctrination. I’m sure she would raise her son to eat whatever he wants even if he becomes a round balloon and develops diabetes. That’s not helping him.

Of course, all the slim men agreed with her and coddled her while thinking me diabolical. After all, as the new view of life is today, as it was during the era of Eugenics, everyone is merely a programed product of their genes and can not stop drinking alcohol, stuffing their face with McDonald’s, or walking like a girl if they’re a boy.

What you sense is–and you don’t seem able to articulate this well–is that you were picked on as a kid for nothing that you could change about your face, however, you realize that gay kids with openly effeminate mannerism, can put in effort to change some of those non-cellular qualities about themselves. Instead, they embrace what you see as “sin,” and belligerently flaunt it as a rebellion against Christ crucified on the Cross.

I think this is your beef. You can correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m not really agreeing with all your views. But I think I understand where your thoughts or views are stemming from.

A famous adult bullied at work: tv.yahoo.com/news/ann-curry-called-last-months-today-torture-staff-150000186-us-weekly.html

“A lot of time in the control room was spent making fun of Ann’s outfit choices or just generally messing with her,” one staff person told Stelter. According to the same staffer, back in spring 2012, employees openly mocked Curry’s bright yellow dress worn during one broadcast – photoshopping a picture of Big Bird next to Curry, asking the team to vote, “Who Wore it Best?” The Us Weekly-inspired joke was posted in the control room.

 

[90Domer]

Our school district has had 6 suicides so far this year.
A disproportionately high number of suicides are kids with SSA.
It is easy to stop SSA bullying - it just takes a school community to buy-in.

On my desk is a mass card from the funeral of a young man who killed himself in September. He self identified as gay. I want to go to as few young peoples’ funerals as possible.

We have campaigns to stop young people drinking and driving. Not all kids drink and drive yet we see no problem with such campaigns.
We have campaigns to stop SSA bullying. Why should people see them as a problem?

There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world.

If only 1% of people have SSA then there are 12,000,000 “gay” and “lesbian” Catholics.

Should we not protect them, and show them they are welcome in our “home” - the Church. Or should we tell them that to find solace and help they must join a politicized “gay” or “queer” group?

Or - since there are more than 12,000,000 Catholics who masturbate, consume porn, fornicate, commit adultery, use contraceptives or get divorced, we should stop being hypocritical about sexual sin and say ALL who sin sexually should be excluded from the Church?

I find this statistic interesting for a country that is supposedly much more tolerant of the gay lifestyle (SSM is legal in Canada, is in not)? So, why would the suicide rate be so high? Sadly, I think this speaks to the fact legalizing SSM is not the panacea for the SSA community that people make it out to be.

 

[livingwordunity]

Or we can help the most vulnerable -

We all know that abuse on the grounds of race, religion, disability is verboten.

Now it’s time for probably the most vulnerable group - the ones who commit suicide the most, like the kid whose funeral I went to in September - kids with SSA, or who look like they have SSA.

The numbers bullied doesn’t necessarily equate to the numbers who commit suicide. “Gays” still have the highest suicide rates even in countries where homosexual behavior has been very accepted (see 90Domer’s post above this one). Remember, I told you that I was bullied a lot when I was growing up. I think it was because I was a different race. But the bullying didn’t make me commit suicide. Do you think that calling a kid a “fag” is worse than white kids calling a mixed race kid “monkey face”? Think about all the Christians in history that were persecuted for being Christian, but they didn’t commit suicide. Higher numbers of suicides among “gays” doesn’t mean more of them get bullied.

 

[triumphguy]

I find this statistic interesting for a country that is supposedly much more tolerant of the gay lifestyle (SSM is legal in Canada, is in not)? So, why would the suicide rate be so high? Sadly, I think this speaks to the fact legalizing SSM is not the panacea for the SSA community that people make it out to be.

Hey - don’t blame me for SSM! I would vote against it.

The homosexual community didn’t lobby for SSM to stop bullying in schools, but so they would have the same family rights.

The Catholic Church - which is hardly pro SSM (unless I am gravely mistaken) is against the bullying of kids with SSA. Or am I wrong?

And apparently heterosexual marriage doesn’t prevent straight kids getting bullied either.

 

[triumphguy]

The numbers bullied doesn’t necessarily equate to the numbers who commit suicide. “Gays” still have the highest suicide rates even in countries where homosexual behavior has been very accepted (see 90Domer’s post above this one). Remember, I told you that I was bullied a lot when I was growing up. I think it was because I was a different race. But the bullying didn’t make me commit suicide. Do you think that calling a kid a “fag” is worse than white kids calling a mixed race kid “monkey face”? Think about all the Christians in history that were persecuted for being Christian, but they didn’t commit suicide. Higher numbers of suicides among “gays” doesn’t mean more of them get bullied.

Sources please - you keep jumping to conclusions without any facts.

And as I posted above kids with SSA (unlike other kids who are bullied) probably don’t have a parent with SSA, or friends with SSA, or an ethnic group with SSA, or a priest with SSA. They are more alone.

Our sexuality is a fundamental part of being human, and is a powerful and often confusing force in shaping our identity.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

The numbers bullied doesn’t necessarily equate to the numbers who commit suicide. “Gays” still have the highest suicide rates even in countries where homosexual behavior has been very accepted (see 90Domer’s post above this one). Remember, I told you that I was bullied a lot when I was growing up. I think it was because I was a different race. But the bullying didn’t make me commit suicide. **Do you think that calling a kid a “fag” is worse than white kids calling a mixed race kid “monkey face”? **Think about all the Christians in history that were persecuted for being Christian, but they didn’t commit suicide. Higher numbers of suicides among “gays” doesn’t mean more of them get bullied.

I think they are equally wrong.
What I don’t understand is why you feel like what happened to you was wrong but you don’t seem to have empathy for kids who were bullied for being gay. I don’t think Christ would have tolerated biracial or gay children being picked on.