Stripped bare: 'Gay' school plot unveiled

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john1863 said:
If you believe everything taken down, transcribed, and printed by man.
I’ll take my chances.
John
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Not everything, but I am a person of faith and believe the Bible. If you wish to take your own chances, then understand the consequences.
 
pnewton said:
Not everything, but I am a person of faith and believe the Bible. If you wish to take your own chances, then understand the consequences.
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Shades of Blaise Pascal. I’ll wager on God’s side. If we claim that that we cannot know anything about God I think we are all lost. I’d still wager on the side of what we know about God rather than wager on the side that for 3,000+ years God has been toying with us.

CDL
 
goofyjim said:
Sorry. I will teach my children what I want to teach them, be it tolerance as well as respect.
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By all means teach them what and how you wish. All that i am saying is this society of forced tolerance is causing the world to fall deeper and deeper into desensitization.

We now look at homosexuality on all the major networks and say “boy gay guys really are funny!” Or, “my goodness that lesbian sure is attractive.” We are desensitized and we need to lead our youth not to be!

If you fail to see that than society is falling into this pit than i am sorry.
 
I_thirst_4_YOU said:
By all means teach them what and how you wish. All that i am saying is this society of forced tolerance is causing the world to fall deeper and deeper into desensitization.

We now look at homosexuality on all the major networks and say “boy gay guys really are funny!” Or, “my goodness that lesbian sure is attractive.” We are desensitized and we need to lead our youth not to be!

If you fail to see that than society is falling into this pit than i am sorry.
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Well then we sunk into the pit on the heterosexual side as well. The Miss America pageant, etc., etc., etc. All about physical attractiveness. Then there’s Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition as well as other magazines.
 
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goofyjim said:
Cancer is a detrimental disease, Bob. Same sex attraction is not and that is why they voted to take it off the list of disorders. The Church has evry right to say the actions or morally disordered but it has no authority on scientific findings. That is not its area.
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I’m having trouble following & communicating with you. First you say that some teens commit suicide because they are afflicted with SSA. Then you say that this orientation is not a “detriment”. And by the way when you refer to “Science”, are you meaning psychiatry, biology, the social sciences?? And which “scientific finding” tells us anything that we can’t know by reason alone? Which “scientific finding” tells us what causes SSA, how to prevent it, how to cure it without doing further harm to the gay sufferer. I don’t think that “science” has given us anything concrete & new on the subject. All of the research in this area has given us nothing we can call definite truths. “Science” makes a lot of claims, but “Science” has not proven that SSA is inborn or that it is natural.
 
CradleCath said:
I’m having trouble following & communicating with you. First you say that some teens commit suicide because they are afflicted with SSA. Then you say that this orientation is not a “detriment”. And by the way when you refer to “Science”, are you meaning psychiatry, biology, the social sciences?? And which “scientific finding” tells us anything that we can’t know by reason alone? Which “scientific finding” tells us what causes SSA, how to prevent it, how to cure it without doing further harm to the gay sufferer. I don’t think that “science” has given us anything concrete & new on the subject. All of the research in this area has given us nothing we can call definite truths. “Science” makes a lot of claims, but “Science” has not proven that SSA is inborn or that it is natural.
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Because it is not the SSA which causes suicide. It is the fact that they have noone to look to since we have to be so darn secretive about it. They need to see those who live with SSA despite what anyone else thinks and the only way to do that is for those like myself to stay public about it. I’m not going anywhere. They need to have pride in their complete selves not just a portion, or even the majority of it, but the complete self. One should not be ahsamed of a mental illness even, let alone SSA, which is not an illness.
 
GoofyJim

A young man attended our Church today who works with a ministry to try to rescue young men who are male prostitutes. Do you also work in such a ministry?

CDL
 
john1863 said:
I smell fear,
As a heterosexual male who has had many occasions to interact with SSA individuals, I have to say that these threads largely discust me.
Do any of you think that SSA (homosexuality) is something new? If so, you only need to read a bit about the Kings and Queens of Europe.
This is the United States of America (secular nation), and no one should be trodden down.
If this is truly a sin…let the Lord God decide that.
John
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I don’t understand your post. What is it about these threads that disgusts you? Do all the threads on sexual morality bother you or just the ones concerning homosexuality?

Daddums 🙂
 
GregoryPalamas said:
GoofyJim

A young man attended our Church today who works with a ministry to try to rescue young men who are male prostitutes. Do you also work in such a ministry?

CDL
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I couldn’t very well do that now could I? I would love to rescue them from prostitution but not necessarily committed homosexual relationships.
 
I’m disturbed by some of the comments made here which imply that God intended for some people to have SSA, or in other words that He made SSA. Tell me, if SSA is not a deviation from God’s plan (that is, if it is perfectly normal and good just like heterosexuality) why is it that acting on it is always and everywhere immoral? In other words, why is it that under no circumstance is acting on SSA anything but immoral?

To say that SSA was made by God or that God intended some people to have SSA is HERESY. God did not intend for anyone to have SSA just as He did not intend for anyone to be deaf. SSA is an effect of Original Sin and as such a disorder. By disorder I mean that it is not the way it is supposed to be. God made man and woman and meant for them to be attracted to one another. Just look at the way he made the male and female bodies.

This doesn’t mean people who have SSA are inferior to those who don’t. If we don’t have SSA we have some other wound in our nature, whether it be a disability or a disordered attraction to alcohol, riches, attention,etc. or something else.
 
mattyc4 said:
I have refuted that it is intrinsically disordered in the past. Your can quote religious doctrine as often as you want, I’ll cite reason, logic, science, and compassion.
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Matty, the religious argument would be, God, through His revealed Word, intended for man and woman to be united, for life, in marriage. Sexual relations outside this criteria is in opposition to Gods’ Word.

Your statement above insinuates (my apology if mistaken) that you lend no credence to the religious argument. You claim, instead, to support what you would seem to believe to be a better approach, citing reason, logic science and…compassion.

This debate can never come to a mutually satisfying conclusion, I content that is impossible. The faithful believe the only true way to happiness is through Gods love. Primarily, first and foremost, our love of God, then our love for one another. Anything else is a counterfiet that will almost assuredly end up in failure (pain, hurt and bitterness). Therefore the faithful feel there is no compassion in condoning a relationship that will hurt alll involved.

I see it as being, unreasonable, illogical and without compassion to support a lifestyle that hurts all involved. I believe science (statistical science) would support this. Admittedly I can’t prove this because I haven’t researched it. But maybe we can compare who led the more joyous, meaningful and rich life, the couples that followed Gods’ plan, or couples who lived the homosexual lifestyle. Might be interesting data. Of course there are exceptions to everything.

I do know that through my own life experience, the married couples I know who are obedient to the Word of God and Christ’s Church, seem to live a much more joyous life then those who do not.
 
francesco920 said:
I’m disturbed by some of the comments made here which imply that God intended for some people to have SSA, or in other words that He made SSA. Tell me, if SSA is not a deviation from God’s plan (that is, if it is perfectly normal and good just like heterosexuality) why is it that acting on it is always and everywhere immoral? In other words, why is it that under no circumstance is acting on SSA anything but immoral?

To say that SSA was made by God or that God intended some people to have SSA is HERESY. God did not intend for anyone to have SSA just as He did not intend for anyone to be deaf. SSA is an effect of Original Sin and as such a disorder. By disorder I mean that it is not the way it is supposed to be. God made man and woman and meant for them to be attracted to one another. Just look at the way he made the male and female bodies.

This doesn’t mean people who have SSA are inferior to those who don’t. If we don’t have SSA we have some other wound in our nature, whether it be a disability or a disordered attraction to alcohol, riches, attention,etc. or something else.
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If that is your wish to call it a moral disorder then continue to do so. But it is not a mental illness. One does not imply the other.
 
Wolseley said:
Abnormalities do not cease to be abnormal simply because they become trendy.
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Well to begin with there is no such thing as a normal person. Everyone has some abnormality. Just take your time and read through the DSM. But SSA is not an illness per se, even if it is not normal. If you were to label every abnormality as an illness we would all be ill and have to go to counseling. Just not the case.
 
goofyjim said:
If that is your wish to call it a moral disorder then continue to do so. But it is not a mental illness. One does not imply the other.
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That one does not imply the other is true, I agree 100%.

All I wished to point out was that whether or not it is a mental disorder, it is a disorder because it is a deviation of God plan that resulted because of Original Sin.

All of us have a fallen nature and in that sense we are all diseased, and it is Christ who makes us all well again if we allow Him to. We are all called to bear our crosses in union with Him, whether that cross is SSA or something else.
 
mattyc4 said:
  1. Hume has been refuted by a few scholars I have read this semester, such as Searle. You also seem to be falling into the commonly misunderstood interpretation of Hume.
  2. If you are going to participate in any discussion anywhere, you should be open to being wrong. You are not infalliable, nor is your religion. You cannot base an argument on a controversial fact that you assume is true. Scriptures can be intepreted in many different ways. I mean, heck, I can use the scriptures to justify the oppression of women, slavery, and stoning innocent people–all that the Bible condones. How is the Bible infalliable if some parts of it are no longer considered accurate?
  3. There are very few moral absolutes, if any. I am basing my argument on current science that says homosexuality is at least partially genetic and has been around for longer than the Bible says humanity has existed.
  4. You do not know what you are talking about. Reason, combined with knowledge and science, can be useful. The study of meterology says it is going to rain tomorrow, so I will then take my umbrella. The study of human sexuality shows that is a naturally occuring, perfectly normal attribute, so I will therefore treat homosexuals with respect and allow them to live the way they want to–not according to someone else’s faulty moral standards based on a valuable, if falliable, book.
  5. Homosexuality, no matter how many catholics or their religious doctrines and dogmas claim, is neither entropic nor inherently disordered. You have no proof this is so, besides the fact that somebody in the church said so.
You sound somewhat like Augustine, and that is very disheartening. He claims that torturing non-believers results in the fact that “many have found advantage…in being first compelled by fear or pain, so that they might afterwards be influenced by teaching…”

Your fear and pain is a psychological, malovent attack claiming damnation and mortal sin.

I was, certainly, a christian until I came to this board and saw all the hatred, rampant discrimination, and lack of personal accountability and responsibility. God would be ashamed of what religion has become. Who would of thought people would use the Bible, THE BIBLE, to preach discrimination, hatred, and bigotry? My God, what has happened? Who do you think gave you a conscience?

My friend, an atheist, told me to come to this board to see what christianity really was about. I wish he didn’t, as I am rapidly losing faith in both religion and humanity.

How could something so GOOD, so GOOD–result in something absolutely wrong, morally bankrupt, and incredibly sad? The church, and christians everywhere, will look back upon this moral demise with great sadness in years to come.

I am ashamed, and you will all be in my prayers that you recieve compassion.

I need some time off from these boards to reassure myself the majority of the world is not like this.

Matt
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ok…that was wierd…:hmmm:
 
goofyjim said:
Well to begin with there is no such thing as a normal person. Everyone has some abnormality. Just take your time and read through the DSM. But SSA is not an illness per se, even if it is not normal. If you were to label every abnormality as an illness we would all be ill and have to go to counseling. Just not the case.
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First of all, Jim, let me make it clear that what I am about to say is a generality. I am not pointing any of this at you.

The difference in all this is that insofar as I know, people afflicted with pyromania do not have militant lobbying groups to demand legalization of arson. People who are attracted to small children aren’t trying to re-write textbooks to include “famous pedophiles” for schoolchildren to read about. People with a proclivity for bestiality aren’t insisting that marriage licenses be issued for them to wed their favorite barnyard quadruped. Even people who commit adultery are not out there trying to re-write the laws of the country to say that what they did was nornal and good.

The militant homosexual lobby is doing all of those things. They are demanding special treatment for their specific abnormality, demanding that everyone else recognize it, legitimize it, celebrate it, hold it up as an exemplar for children to emulate.

A lot of us out here aren’t going to agree. Homosexual activity is a mortal sin and a deviant behavior, which we no more view as good or normal than we would pyromania, pedophilia, bestiality, adultery, or any other sinful or abnormal behavior.

Have compassion and pity on the person so afflicted? Absolutely. Tolerate his sinful and aberrant lifestyle? No. Christ did not tell the woman caught in adultery, “I accept you as you are, and I do not condemn you. Go, and keep committing adultery.” He told her, "I accept you as you are, and I do not condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

And just for the record, I have just as many sins in my life as any militant homosexual does, sexual and otherwise. The difference is that I recognize them as sins and abnormalities, and I struggle against them. I pray to be released from them. I go to confession and seek God’s absolution when I fall and indulge them. I try, in my weak way, to destroy the sinful tendencies in my life and to work towards a higher level of the kind of person God wants me to be.

What I don’t do is celebrate my sinful behaviors, declare that “this is the way I am and everyone must accept my sinful choices”, or demand that society accept my sins or view them as normal and good, that they should be taught to others as normal and good, or worse, demand that society alter its basic institutions to accomodate “my” abnormal behavior.

Do you see the difference?
goofyjim said:
Sorry. I will teach my children what I want to teach them, be it tolerance as well as respect.
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You’re planning to adopt some?
 
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