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YinYangMom
Guest
Amen.
Student Who Exposed Catholic Teacher's Abortion Work Expelled
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YinYangMom
Guest
Yup :yup: no excuses there.
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miguel
Guest
You are quite right. But that is a separate matter from keeping her employed as a teacher in a Catholic school. I’m reminded of the saying about “one rotten apple ruining the whole bunch.”
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beckyann2597
Guest
There is a morals clause in the contract, but you have to understand the politically charged atmosphere in Sacramento and the fact that people will sue about ANYTHING. This one is especially desirable to abortionists because if a court found it was not valid to dismiss under these circumstances, then it would put into question whether religious institutions needed to meet the same hiring and firing discrimination guidelines that state run institutions do. We are talking about the same state that voted down parental notification rights in the case of minors seeking abortions and a State supreme court that endorsed the constitutionality of Gay marriage. You can say it won’t happen but with the state of this place it might.This would assume that there is not a “morals clause” in the teaching contract. If you know someone at the school, perhaps you could find out some of what is contained in a typical teaching contract there..
The teacher was not Catholic. She was hired last minute because the person they had originally hired never showed up. They were a week into school with substitutes in the class and here was this woman who fit the job requirement. She was an actress and a dancer and they needed one teacher to teach both drama and dance. She didn’t put down her volunteer work on the resume because I don’t think she thought it mattered, especially since she didn’t volunteer the entire time she was employed at Loretto.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Except that Beckyann pointed out the sister may have been trying to use the time left on the teacher’s contract to change the teacher’s heart - an opportunity for evangelization and guidance should not be dismissed rashly. But I will concede that the suggestion that may have been her intentions is only a suggestion, with no basis in fact, yet. So I’m not stating that was her intention, just as Beckyann wasn’t. Still, that approach should not result in the disdain you would have shown had that been the case, since you don’t seem to want to be bothered with converting others, just removing them from your presence and any other Catholic’s.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
It’s a pity that people don’t seem to have as much sympathy for bishops who kept trying to rehabilitate predatory priests. 
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miguel
Guest
You know, it really isn’t necessary to form an opinion on complete information. It might be nice. But we usually don’t have the luxury. Take our future spouse. Do any of us have complete information about him or her? No. Not even after we’ve been married for 20 years. But we jump in or stay in anyway. The information only needs to be complete enough. No new detail is going to justify the principal knowingly employing the “deathscort” in a Catholic school. If it turns out I’m wrong, I’ll be happy to admit it.
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miguel
Guest
We are not talking about stealing a piece of candy here. We are talking about cold-blooded murder. What’s good enough for the Bishop, is good enough for me.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Your opinion on all this has been fine.
What I have objected to is your posting your opinion as if it were fact and getting upset with those of us who aren’t willing to jump to the same conclusions you are.
Based on your opinion you are comfortable condemning this teacher and you despise the principal for not having fired the girl prior to the bishop’s involvment.
I get that.
All I’m saying is without all the facts available I am not willing to despise the principal for not firing the teacher of her own initiative or for expelling the student. Not yet. I will wait until we learn more.
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YinYangMom
Guest
And I’m talking about a teaching opportunity, a possible conversion of the mind of this misguided person…but, I agree, what’s good enough for the Bishop is good enough for me as well.
I’m just not ready to conclude based upon what we know to be fact that the principal was trying to protect and keep the teacher and only reluctantly fired her because of pressure from the bishop.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Joe Kelley:
Hey, it’s one thing to rehabilitate predatory priests by removing them from public service and keeping them holed up in isolation with constant therapy and another to move the predatory priest from parish to parish to parish, let alone without constant therapy and monitoring.It’s a pity that people don’t seem to have as much sympathy for bishops who kept trying to rehabilitate predatory priests.
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miguel
Guest
And I respect that. Sorry about the ostrich comment. It was a good discussion.
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YinYangMom
Guest
It was, thanks for stimulating it
I do look forward to any follow up news…if it turns out the expulsion was retaliatory that’s bad. If it turns out the parents are guilty of what the principal stated as the reasons for the expulsion that, too, is bad.
The only good thing to come out of this is that the teacher is no longer teaching Catholic youth.
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miguel
Guest
I posted factual information that I used to base my opinion. You were getting upset with me. And I reacted with the ostrich comment. Sorry. You have every right to wait for more information. And I stand by the conclusions I have made.
I am not condemning the teacher. I feel very strongly that she does not belong in a Catholic school. I don’t despise the principal. I think she showed terrible judgement.
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YinYangMom
Guest
The factual information was mostly the view of the particular authors who wrote the news articles you used as reference. The facts within the article did not confirm your conclusions. I do admit I was getting frustrated with your not seeing the difference between the author’s 2 cents and actual facts the author was commenting on. I apologize if I took my frustration out on you.
The words you chose to speak about the principal with regard to the teacher were harsh enough to suggest you have very strong feelings against her personally for not being wise enough to have dismissed the teacher without the bishop directing her too. I did not intend to put words in your mouth and certainly appreciate this opportunity to explain how I got the impression you despised the principal. Glad to know you don’t despise her.
I think we’re all good on this topic now.
We all agree active pro-choice people should not be teaching in Catholic schools.
We all agree the teacher was justifiably fired.
We all agree the students are better off for her dismissal.
We all agree the bishop did the right thing.
Now some of us are waiting to find out if the expulsion was retaliatory or justified…though it seems we all suspect retaliation had something to do with the expulsion, even if it turns out the charges levied against the family are valid.
Is that a fair summation?
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miguel
Guest
The factual information I provided included quotes from the Bishop and his representative revealing how they viewed the situation. I think it strongly supports my conclusions. You are free to disagree.
Look, I’m disgusted enough by the culture of death we all live in. The last place we should have to put up with it is in a Catholic school.
Yes. I would add that inactive pro-choice people should not be teaching Catholic kids either.
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Lurch104
Guest
While you are waiting, a young girl has been expelled. Her life has been disupted. How long should she have to wait for justice?? How would the plain clothes nun be harmed by defending her position to expell the student? People should be made to answer. Waiting years for a liberal California corut to decide the matter is not acceptable. She should be in a Catholic school while this is resolved.
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cathologos
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- It’s entirely possible that the young girl has received justice.
- There is at least some indication that this family’s life was disrupted by the consequences of their own bad behavior. We don’t know this – but that allegation has as much merit at this time as any allegation of “reprisal” against the girl.
- The “plain clothes nun” (I love the skilled use of words to belittle someone you don’t know) may very well be confronting a civil lawsuit. Making a public statement at this point would be foolish.
- “People should be made to answer.” To whom? To God, she will be. To her “accuser”? If the family files a suit, you can rest assured that a defense will be presented – in court, not in the media, and not on somebody’s blog. Is she answerable to you? Shall I quote you the scriptures that suggest you should leave this to God?
- Waiting for a court is not acceptable? (Another use here of a mocking pejorative – all California judges are liberal? How do you know that?) What do you want instead? Shall we haul this nun off to Guantanamo and “persuade” her? Shall we slap her around a bit? Shall we research her family and her background, and post scurrilous rumors about her on the Internet? On this forum?
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Cathologos:
#3. The School has already made public statements in the form of allegations of intimidation first of Mrs. Sills, and then of the Kathylen Sills. This was all done when it became clear they were taking a public relations beating for expelling Kathylen and for expelling her via Registered Mail.
The expulsion letter was sent with no notice and after no attempt seems to have been made to counsel or warn Kathylen of any problem behavior. Is that how you would want to be treated? How does that reflect the love and mercy of Christ?
This is at a School that did not seem to be accurately or completely representing the Church’s stand on Abortion - Students interviewed by the Bee were “Pro-Choice” and the “Popular Teacher” was hired IMMEDIATELY AFTER her time at Planned parenthood!
Sister’s Helen’s friends said she didn’t like being forced to do anything - Well she was forced to do something here by Bishop Wiegand after she refused to listen to buth Kathylen and Mrs. Sills.
#4 & 5. In the light of St. Paul’s admonition in I Cor 6:1-9 to NOT take this to Court, why are you saying that Kathylen and Mrs. Sills should be forcxed to take this to court rather than to be treated as you and I would wish to be treated, with respect and the love and mercy of Christ.
Is the answer to everything in our Church now to force people who are unhappy or who feel they have been wronged to force them to take the issue before UNBELIEVERS rather than to deal with them as BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST?
Given that St. Paul’s admonition is in Sacrad Scripture, which the Church says is inspired by God, How do you think our Lord feels about that attitude and method for treating people who are hurting and who may very well have been wronged by people in the employ of the Church?
I thought our concern was for people’s souls, not for whether they had burned bridges by forcing schools to adhere to the Canons of the Church. and, What kind of message are we sending when we say that forcing schools to adhere to the Canons of the Church and the practice the faith automatically burns bridges for the students of the families that do that?
I thought the Canons of the Church REQUIRED Catholics to “Denounce” wrongdoing such as knowingly hiring Someone who was explicit “Pro-Choice” and whose last position was at Planned Parenthood to the Church Authorities. I had no idea they allowed the institutions to then expell the students by Registered mail citing “Intimidation” as the reason when they took a PR beating for doing what they did how they did it.
I see no reason, except for human arrogance, why the Sills should be forced to go to Court.
People screw up all the time, what separates sinners from Saints is how we respond to it when we screw-up. I think we should confess the wrongdoing, fix whatever damage can be fixed, and then move on.
In Christ, Michael
FYI, Loretto isn’t under Bishop Wiegand’s authority. It’s an “Independent Catholic School” directly under the Provincial of the Sisters of Loretto, who is responsible for a LOT more than your average Diocesan. This probably is near the bottom of a 2’ high stack of papers.
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Traditional_Ang
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beckyann2597:
If I wanted to do that, I would hire the woman for a position where she wouldn’t be teaching children or influencing them.
I was upset when the Bee identified a lot of the students they were talking to as “Pro-Choice”.
Since you know something about the school, are ALL the students thoroughly taught the Catholic Church’s position of Abortion? or, Is this education limited to those who are Catholics?
I believe that may have been a source of conflict between the Sills and the Admin, Staff and Students if only some of the students were hearing the “Gospel of Life”, and Sister Helen had knowingly hired a teacher who was Pro-Abortion and had most recently worked as a “deathscort”.
I would hate to find I lost a job or was expelled from school via Registered Mail. I can’t why Sister Helen wouldn’t beg Kathylen to “cool it” if she was being a problem or to at least bring her into the office and tell her she was being expelled.
The fact is that Sister Helen did none of these things. Why? Why did she make the decision to expel Kathylen without talking to her about it? Why didn’t she care enough to talk to this girl before “Kicking her to the curb”? and, Why expel her via Express Mail, which is the least loving, least decent way to do it, and how one sends, “Dear John letters”?
I don’t despise Sister Helen, but i do believe that she displayed an appalling lack of charity and then used these accusations of intimidation to try to divert attention from what she did. She’d do a lot better if she apologized and tried to take Kathylen back or to find a place for her in another Catholic School.
That’s the right and loving thing to do.
It’ll be a crying shame and an offense against God if this goes to the Courts.
In Christ, Michael
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