Study: Homosexuality, celibacy didn't cause abuse

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Wish more people would face this head on. LazyDaisy, well put.
If your child, sister, brother or relative has been sexually abused I don’t think the age or time matters.
Accountability must be taken from the top of the heap to heal wounds.
I continue to pray for all of those who have been violated by the hand of another.
 
I laughed out loud when I read your post.

DId Conservatives in the antebellum Southern U.S. want to conserve good?
Did Conservative Communists in Russia during the 1980s want to conserve good?
Do Conservative clerics in the Islamic Republic of Iran today want to conserve good?

I think that there’s only one answer an intellectually honest and humane person could give, and it doesn’t begin with the letter Y.
Even as people do evil, that does not mean they recognize that what they are choosing is evil. Most people consider their choices to be good ones. This would include slaveowneers, communists, and clerics.
It is a part of our human nature ever since the Fall. What we consider good and bad is tinged with our desire now, and has little to do with what is objectively good or evil. What we desire we rationalize and convince ourselves is good, and what we do not want, we define as evil.

People who self-define themselves as conservative in America of course have nothing in common with Muslim Ayatollahs, nor Soviet communists. It is Judeo-Christian values that we recognize as good and worthy of preserving against the ayatollahs, the slavers, and the socialist left. These values provides us with an objective system of good and evil that lies outside of our desires, that calls upon us to restrain from following our desires in fact.
That is what we want to conserve, not the totalitarian systems of oppression that are the way of the Muslim clerics, the slavers and grey-bearded leftist ‘revolutionaries’.
 
The difference for our boomer generation and previous ones, is that ours was the one encouraged to follow our desires, and to do our own thing, to make love not war, and do what comes naturally. We were encouraged to be open to our sexuality, to consider it intrinsically and naturally good; and to consider a Church teaching that stated otherwise to be repressive and therefore unnatural and harmful.

It is not that prior generations did not sin, but they fully understood that following their own sexual desires was succumbing to evil. There was no such confusion as to where the good path was.

That was just not true for the generations that grew up in the fifties and beyond.
 
What a freaky, bizarre post. Adults WERE available but as homosexuals they overwhelmingly chose young boys – the very stuff of gay fantasies. What is so difficult to apprehend about that?

“The overwhelming majority of abuse cases was homosexual molestation. According to press reports, confirmed by the studies of reputable scholars, the most prominent form of clergy sexual abuse in recent decades has involved homosexual priests abusing teenage boys and young men.

It took editors, television personalities, and radio talk-show hosts approximately two and a half months to recognize what print reporters had, in fact, been uncovering for months: namely, that the overwhelming majority of cases of abuse did not involve prepubescent children, but rather teenage boys and young men, often in school or seminary settings. While clinical distinctions (“Fixated ephebophilia,” “regressed” or “stunted” homosexuality) may be helpful for purposes of professional study and therapy, normal English describes such abuse as homosexual molestation.”

Purveyors of gay culture prefer to call what happened as “pedophilia” but the dirty truth cited below shows otherwise. Weigel has written elsewhere:

Pedophile priests – in the classic sense of men who habitually abuse prepubescent children – are not the majority of cleric sexual abusers; they are, in fact, a small minority of malfeasant clergy, although they are arguably the most loathsome form of the clerical sexual predator. That the shorthand of “pedophilia crisis” was being used …months after even gay activists were conceding that the overwhelming majority of the abuses reported involved homosexual men molesting teenage boys or young males suggested that the moniker “pedophilia crisis” served agendas other than factual accuracy. Were the crisis of clerical sexual abuse to be described accurately – as a crisis whose principle manifestation was homosexual molestation – other questions about gay culture might well be raised.

Now this report intends to blur the distinctions of the previous for obvious PC reasons. You, my friend, blow it out to further, almost impossible, distortions. Your handlers must be very happy.

dj
so sorry.For some reason I thought we were discussing the latest scandal having to do with that 1 priest.I think i posted on the wrong forum.
 
I am curious, Have there been any other scholarly studies on what happened? When you consider the numbers, how long it continued, and how it was handled… it would be a good thing to understand. I have heard to lot of theories from many sources, but nothing which really seems objective or based on much other than personal opinions.
 
I am curious, Have there been any other scholarly studies on what happened? When you consider the numbers, how long it continued, and how it was handled… it would be a good thing to understand. I have heard to lot of theories from many sources, but nothing which really seems objective or based on much other than personal opinions.
How about anecdotal? Click on:
thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-john-jay-report.html

I was in a minor seminary in the middle-late fifties; it was one of the “observant” ones: potential homosexual attachments or tendencies were watched closely and seminarians were warned of the attractions.
 
How about anecdotal? Click on:
thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-john-jay-report.html

I was in a minor seminary in the middle-late fifties; it was one of the “observant” ones: potential homosexual attachments or tendencies were watched closely and seminarians were warned of the attractions.
From the above linked blog by John Miner:
"The research team must have faced a serious, albeit familiar, problem: since most of the abuse cases were male-on-male, they were in a pickle as to how they’d deal with the confirming data without demonizing the “gay” subculture. So . . . they barely mention it."Those who prepared the John Jay report as well as the USCCB seem to have gone to a great deal of trouble to blind themselves to the meaning of their own statistics. Over 80% of the cases were male on male in nature. And it was well known that some particular seminaries in the 70’s countenanced a gay subculture.
 
So a molester picks based on availability not the victim’s sex? Does this make sense? :hmmm:
 
So a molester picks based on availability not the victim’s sex? Does this make sense? :hmmm:
It makes no sense at all in terms of the conclusions the report tries to present. The fact that 80+% of the victims were male adolescents is attributed to priests having more access to males. I simply do not find that to be the case. Priests live in parishes not prisons. Priests in parishes have access to both boys and girls. Most parishes have schools affiliated with them and many youth activities. Yet the great majority of the abuse consisted essentially of pederasty.
 
Huh! I would have thought homosexual urges to be at the core of the abuse. We must recognize the fact that satan hates the innocence in our youth and faith in our clergy.What better way then to organize,train agents to infiltrate the holy priesthood and carry out that evil mandate.I do believe its a conspiracy ,after all they protect each other,many churchs have lost millions in court cases and the faith in our clergy has been eroded! …as a retired HS teacher I also am aware of how ‘lay’ members also destroy children…if a student goes to the police ,the teacher then is questioned and if there is proof that he had relations with her,he is fired on the spot and the student gets no money but has to go to court for it…if the student goes to the school,ie Dean of students and complains that her lover teacher is having an affair with another student…the student signs a paper stating she will not go to the media or lawyer and she gets a hefty check for years and the teacher is allowed to resign for ‘health’ reasons and thus his record is clean and off he( or she of course,)goes onto other schools.I know of a good many cases like this in many private and public schools…sad and disgusting is it not…plus scary. Nino
 
Let’s face it, when a group of bishops pays this much money to a group of psychologists, you are not going to get a report that fixes the blame on bad bishops and bad psychologists. Yet in my experience, and I have way too much personal experience on this issue than anyone should have, that is where the blame lies.

I was in seminary studies for four years of high school, four years of college (two different colleges), and one year of theology at a seminary connected to a major Catholic university. When I was asked to leave in 1972, both seminary officials and I agreed that I did not fit in. For decades I thought that meant there was something wrong with me. It is only in the last few years that I learned through the official diocesan web site and other reliable sources the following:

Half of the men who were in school with me and were ordained for our diocese have been removed from ministry for abusing young people. Not one of them was a true pedophile. 100% of them were involved in homosexual relationships with teenagers.

The above is not an exaggeration. The 50% figure does not include the young priest two years ahead of me who died in a boating accident while drunk.

It does not include the younger brother of my high school teacher who became pastor of my old parish–his canonical case is still pending since 2003 and he may be innocent, even though the other priest accused by the same victim was convicted in criminal court.

It does not include the man one year ahead of me who was accused many years ago and transferred to another diocese. He was accused again in his second diocese and transferred to a third diocese. His case is still pending and he may be innocent.

It does not include the spritual director for my first two years of college who has about a dozen accusers who were high school seminarians at the time. His canonical case is still pending since 2002 and he may be innocent.

It does not include my classmate who was convicted of federal income tax for not reporting as income the money he stole from the parish collections to remodel the $540,000 home he bought for his mother.

It does not include the former parochial vicar in my home parish who was criminally convicted in two different states. The evidence was very strong because this priest kept videotapes of his conquests that somehow got sold in a garage sale.

It does not include another parochial vicar in my home parish who was accused by an opportunist who was twice convicted in federal court of felony fraud. This fine priest really was innocent.

When I was in the seminary, it never occurred to me that any of my friends would molest children. There was only a very slight indication that any of them was homosexual. I had never met an openly gay person until I was in major seminary and that man was a Protestant seminarian. I felt sorry for him and was surprised how many Catholic seminarians thought he was normal.

Looking back to a time almost 40 years ago, there were two indicators of future trouble for the priests now removed from ministry. They were dissenters from Humane Vitae, and many of them abused alcohol. It is not hard for me to see how this happened. Many priests and even bishops also underplayed or openly denied the truth taught by Paul VI, even though the encyclical was nothing new. It only affirmed more than two thousand years of Judeo-Christian teaching. We were taught in the seminary that the encyclical was the opinion of one man and that it was intellectually lazy to give more weight to it than to the opinion of our seminary professors. Our rector was an alcoholic who had stopped drinking. One of our scripture professors died young from the results of alcoholism. Another scripture professor, who left his order and the priesthood, and now professor emeritus at a major Catholic university, can still be seen on the History Channel explaining that if the bones of Jesus were discovered, it would not affect his faith. I never finished my masters degree, but if the Resurrection never happened it would affect my faith a whole lot.

Matthew Bunson has a new book out about the role of Cardinal Ratzinger in the clerical abuse crisis. It was very telling that when Blessed John Paul II became aware of the problem, he did not appoint his top expert in public relations to handle the problem—he appointed his top theologian. I had a long conversation with Dr Bunson on the problem about six months ago after he appeared on the Catholic Answers radio program. I fully agree with Dr Bunson that the three most important factors to solve the problem of clerical abuse are:
  1. Fidelity
  2. Fidelity
  3. Fidelity
 
I also agree with George Weigel that the clerical abuse crisis is about homosexuality and not pedophilia. The secular media is so concerned with promoting tolerance for the gay community that the scandal would not have been covered at all unless it could be labeled as pedophilia or hypocrisy.

Only after more than three decades did I discover how my home diocese got so far off the reservation. The real scandal, not covered by secular media, was that our diocese was being led by a man who was an out of control alcoholic and promiscuous homosexual who misused psychological testing to ensure that fellow homosexuals would be ordained and those judged intolerant of homosexuals would be excluded. The real scandal was that a homosexual bishop ordained one of his sexual partners who left the Church to join a schismatic sect and now presents the body and blood of Christ to his fellow sinners. The real scandal was that this bishop was forced to resign as bishop and voluntarily removed himself from ministry only when one of his many homosexual prostitutes turned out to be only 15 years old. Even then, he was allowed to have the reason for his resignaton announced as his ongoing problem with alcoholism. When he went to a nursing home the reason was announced as Alzheimer’s disease, not AIDS.

One man four years ahead of me in school who student taught me in high school tried to do the right thing. During his deaconate year he reported to seminary officials that he was experiencing strong same sex attraction and was sent for evaluation to a traditional Catholic psychiatrist. The report said that he was in a fragile state and could be a danger to himself and others; that great care should be exercised when he was told he would not be ordained. The response of our homosexual vicar general was to bury the report and find another psychiatrist who did not believe same sex attraction would be a problem for a Catholic priest. The first report came out in court proceedings when the diocese faced multiple lawsuits when this priest engaged in inappropriate behavior with teenaged boys. The diocese lost the lawsuits and the priest only got the therapy he needed only after he left ministry and is now married.

The new report to USCCB does identify poor priestly formation as a cause of the problem and that is 100% true, but who is responsible for that? If you heard the second reading from Mass this Sunday, (Fifth Sunday of Easter, cycle A) from Acts, it is very clear that one of the first problems the Apostles faced was in the selection of deacons to assist them. I could not miss this point because it was also the reading on Saturday when our diocese ordained 11 permanent deacons.

When the bishop of my home diocese resigned near the mandatory retirement age of 75, he gave a half hearted apology, saying that he may not have been a good administrator, but was a great priest. He had frequently transferred offending priests to other parishes and even knowing recommended his homosexual auxiliary bishop for a diocese of his own. In 2005, after more than a dozen priests had been removed from ministry for abusing young people, he chose to ordain a man only a few months after he had been caught with child pornography. What could possibly go wrong? After only a few years that priest was arrested for child molesting and attempted suicide. I would reply that the selection and formation of clergy is not an administrative detail; it is central to the core mission of the bishop to preach the Gospel.

Because I have previously identified my current location in other posts on CAF, I want to make it perfectly clear that my home diocese at that time was not Fort Wayne-South Bend, and that our beloved bishop emeritus, John Michael D’Arcy, was in no way involved in the actual incidents I have described. On the contrary, Bishop D’Arcy was a model for how bishops should have responded to the problem of abusive priests from the time he was a seminary rector and Auxiliary Bishop in the Archdiocese of Boston.
 
I am also certain that celibacy is not a part of the problem for abusive priests, except that some men who know that they would not make good husbands choose to enter the seminary.

Men who seek sexual encounters with teenagers are not good marriage material. They want a relationship where they can be the dominant partner. Never in the history of the world has a man molested a child when he was actually in search of an adult, consensual relationship with someone who was his equal but complimentary partner in a sacramental union marked by fidelity, permanence, and openness to new life.

A culture that embraces abortion on demand, sexual promiscuity, pornography, immodest dress, artificial birth control, no-fault divorce, all alternative lifestyles as morally equal, and moral relativism as the only moral absolute, has no chance of understanding celibacy in the priesthood.
 
It seems to me that Trader, in his last three posts, has shed more light on the causes of sexual abuse by priests than did the study commissioned by the USCCB.

This part particularly struck me: “Looking back to a time almost 40 years ago, there were two indicators of future trouble for the priests now removed from ministry. They were dissenters from Humane Vitae, and many of them abused alcohol.”

Perhaps the John Jay study should have delved into that factor.

It is also true that even though over 80% of the cases involved male victims, neither the John Jay study, nor the USCCB, nor especially the mainstream press, is willing to acknowledge the fact or delve into it more deeply.

Most homosexuallly oriented men are not pederasts. But it is no service to truth to play down that this was mostly a crisis of pederasty or to downplay the factors enumerated by Trader which contributed to the crisis.
 
It seems to me that Trader, in his last three posts, has shed more light on the causes of sexual abuse by priests than did the study commissioned by the USCCB.

This part particularly struck me: “Looking back to a time almost 40 years ago, there were two indicators of future trouble for the priests now removed from ministry. They were dissenters from Humane Vitae, and many of them abused alcohol.”

Perhaps the John Jay study should have delved into that factor.

It is also true that even though over 80% of the cases involved male victims, neither the John Jay study, nor the USCCB, nor especially the mainstream press, is willing to acknowledge the fact or delve into it more deeply.

Most homosexuallly oriented men are not pederasts. But it is no service to truth to play down that this was mostly a crisis of pederasty or to downplay the factors enumerated by Trader which contributed to the crisis.
It does not take a PhD in psychology to understand that if you add alcohol to a latent homosexual, you might get an overt homosexual. That alcohol lowers inhibitions was described in Genesis with Lot and his daughters.
 
John Jay Study: A $2 million exercise in political correctness

On May 18, researchers from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice released their long-awaited final report, “Causes and Context of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests in the United States, 1950-2010.”
The research team, led by Karen Terry, Ph.D., gathered an impressive amount of information from which they drew a number of conclusions; the most unsettling of which is the claim that homosexuality is unrelated to the abuse (particularly of adolescent males, the primary victims in the crisis.)
Though 81 percent of the victims were post-pubescent males, researchers downplayed the homosexual connection by suggesting that this simply reflects the fact that offenders had greater access to boys. The report also proposes the possibility that, “Although the victims of priests were most often male, thus defining the acts as homosexual, the priest did not at any time recognize his identity as homosexual.”
A less politically correct conclusion, it would seem, is to acknowledge that the offending clerics were perhaps unwilling to take “ownership” of their struggle with homosexuality. In any event, this line of argument appears to be little more than a red herring.
According to Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a consultant to the Vatican Congregation for Clergy and a leading expert on clerical sex abuse, how an abuser may “recognize” himself is not entirely relevant; rather, the homosexual acts alone testify to “deep seated” homosexuality.
“We are identified by our behavior,” Dr. Fitzgibbons said in a recent telephone interview. “The attempt to distance the homosexual acts in question from a personal struggle against SSA (Same Sex Attraction) on the part of the abuser is inconsistent with clinical data.”
Information found in the report itself also strongly suggests that the abuse is directly related to homosexuality. For instance: “This excuse (that the victim initiated physical intimacy) was particularly common for priests who were accused of abusing adolescents, who referred to the abuse as a ‘relationship.’”
Does this scenario, in which an adult male imagines that he is involved in a sexually active consenting “relationship” with an adolescent boy, describe a heterosexual crime of convenience? So determined to deny the obvious, the John Jay researchers are at pains to have you believe that it does.

more…
 
Sexual ABUSE of anyone but especially of** children** is called SIN!
Serious SIN!!
Hidious SIN!!
It is
* DOING*** what one** WANTS** to do to satisfy one’s perverted LUST even when one KNOWS that what they are doing is WRONG!
We need to quit rationalizing all of this* filth against children* and CAll it what it is… EVIL!!
Than we need to deal with this EVIL where and** when** we meet it! Everything can** not** be fixed!! To begin, a person has to want help, none of these men** appears** to have wanted to be fixed, helped, nor even to** protect** children !! Money and time needs to go into studies on how to protect our children from these diviants now that we bleeding hearts have** produced** a culture that is** hell** bent on** doing as it** pleases!!
EVIL has** always** existed! How was it kept to a** minimum** in the less enlightened ages? Has all these psychological studies really made things better? Once our precious ego’s take* center*** stage in life, it’s round and** round** we go, down and down we go…perhaps a little FEAR of society** ifone does** these kind of things** would be a good thing**!
.
Pedophilia a ‘sexual orientation’ experts tell Parliament(Canada)
OTTAWA, Ontario, February 28, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a recent parliamentary session on a bill relating to sexual offenses against children,* psychology experts** claimed that pedophilia is a**“sexual orientation”** comparable t homosexuality or heterosexuality, a definition that was questioned by** one** Member of Parliament who was present.*
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2682310/posts
 
Sexual ABUSE of anyone but especially of** children** is called SIN!
Serious SIN!!
Hidious SIN!!
It is
* DOING*** what one** WANTS** to do to satisfy one’s perverted LUST even when one KNOWS that what they are doing is WRONG!
We need to quit rationalizing all of this* filth against children* and CAll it what it is… EVIL!!
Than we need to deal with this EVIL where and** when** we meet it! Everything can** not** be fixed!! To begin, a person has to want help, none of these men** appears** to have wanted* to be* fixed, helped, nor even to** care** about** protecting** children!! Money and time needs to go into studies on how to protect our children from these deviants** now** that we bleeding hearts have** produced** a culture that is** hell** bent on*** doing as it*** pleases!!
EVIL has** always** existed! How was it kept to a** minimum** in the less enlightened ages? Has all these psychological studies really made things better? Once our precious ego’s take* center*** stage in life, it’s round and** round** we go, down and down we go…
Perhaps a little FEAR ( if not of God) at least from a society that speaks out** loud and clear, we will not accept this type of behavior against our children and we will punish you severly when you do these kinds of things!! .
Pedophilia a ‘sexual orientation’ experts tell Parliament(Canada)
OTTAWA, Ontario, February 28, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a recent parliamentary session on a bill relating to sexual offenses against children,
psychology experts
* claimed that pedophilia is a**“sexual orientation”** comparable t homosexuality or heterosexuality, a definition that was questioned by** one** Member of Parliament who was present.*
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2682310/posts
 
Sexual ABUSE of anyone but especially of** children** is called SIN!
Serious SIN!!
Hidious SIN!!
It is
* DOING*** what one** WANTS** to do to satisfy one’s perverted LUST even when one KNOWS that what they are doing is WRONG!
We need to quit rationalizing all of this* filth against children* and CAll it what it is… EVIL!!
Than we need to deal with this EVIL where and** when** we meet it! Everything can** not** be fixed!! To begin, a person has to want help, none of these men** appears** to have wanted* to be* fixed, helped, nor even to** care** about** protecting** children!! Money and time needs to go into studies on how to protect our children from these deviants** now** that we bleeding hearts have** produced** a culture that is** hell** bent on*** doing as it*** pleases!!
EVIL has** always** existed! How was it kept to a** minimum** in the less enlightened ages? Has all these psychological studies really made things better? Once our precious ego’s take* center*** stage in life, it’s round and** round** we go, down and down we go…
Perhaps a little FEAR ( if not of God) at least from a society that speaks out** loud and clear, we will not accept this type of behavior against our children and we will punish you severly when you do these kinds of things!! .
Pedophilia a ‘sexual orientation’ experts tell Parliament(Canada)
OTTAWA, Ontario, February 28, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a recent parliamentary session on a bill relating to sexual offenses against children,
psychology experts
* claimed that pedophilia is a**“sexual orientation”** comparable t homosexuality or heterosexuality, a definition that was questioned by** one** Member of Parliament who was present.*
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2682310/posts
 
So a molester picks based on availability not the victim’s sex? Does this make sense?
All of the scientific studies on peodophilia and hebephelia show that the majority of perptrators have no gender preference. Child molestation is more often than not simply a crime of opportunity as the majority of perpetrators dont give a thought to gender.
 
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