And this is probably the best point being made: the assumptions about and the accusations against the Bishop of being an anti-semite and a holocaust denier are by no means supported by his actual statements–which are plainly and simply inaccurate at worst, as well as quite distasteful to those of us who know personally survivors of the camps.
It is find that you disagree with every bone in your body–but all those bones put together still do not give you the ability to know the Bishop’s heart–and therefore make such accusations.
And this is probably the best point being made: the accusations against the Bishop of being an anti-semite and a holocaust denier are by no means supported by his actual statements–which are plainly and simply inaccurate at worst.
I charge you, brother, with hypocrisy.
It is find that you disagree with every bone in your body–but all those bones put together still do not give you the ability to know the Bishop’s heart–and therefore make such accusations.
I charge you, brother, with hypocrisy.
Would the following argument leave your mouth?
“John Paul II caused grave scandal at Assisi. He had a poisoned mind.” Or something like it?
Remember, brother, that we have access to your prior posts.
Would you say this? Did you say things like this?
If so then you are acting in a manner that is highly hypocritical.
If I am going to continue dialoging with you, you are going to have to be honest.
Answer the following question:
How do you defend your attacks on John Paul II and the Novus Ordo Bishops, in which you clearly judge their hearts, while at the same time criticizing me for judging Williamson by his very public and scandalous actions?
If you refuse to answer this question honestly and completely, I refuse to dialog with you further.
whether or not WH made those allegations is immaterial in this conversation. Many of us who are a part of this conversation have not made such allegations against Pope John Paul II.Answer the following question:
How do you defend your attacks on John Paul II and the Novus Ordo Bishops, in which you clearly judge their hearts, while at the same time criticizing me for judging Williamson by his very public and scandalous actions?
If you refuse to answer this question honestly and completely, I refuse to dialog with you further.
Maurin, you seem to be attempting to be reasonable.whether or not WH made those allegations is immaterial in this conversation. Many of us who are a part of this conversation have not made such allegations against Pope John Paul II.
It seems that you may be condoning “2 wrongs make a right” above. I certainly hope not.
The Bishop has apologized for causing scandal in the Church and for causing the Pope to be placed in an uncomfortable position. His statements were quite unfortunate and regrettable, but do not support the allegations of “anti semite and holocaust denier.”
No. Satan would be happy if we just let folks deny evils like the holocaust so we can all “get along.”I guess Satan must be happy to see Catholic pitted against Catholic
This sort of thing deeply hurts our faith and attempts to see things come to a just conclusion
We should get behind Pope Benedict and show him we have faith in his decisions, and trust the Holy Spirit
Be very careful the name Christ was writing in the sand isn’t yours
May God’s will be done, not ours
as soon as you edit your condescending opening statement.Maurin, you seem to be attempting to be reasonable.
Therefore, I ask you, to please explain to me (I will be open to your explanation) how you defend the notion that saying millions of Jews did not die in the Shoah does not amount to Holocaust denial.
I also ask you to please explain to me how you defend the Bishop’s promotion of the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a proven anti-semitic forgery and favorite book of neo-Nazis.
If you can rationally explain these things to me, with evidence and solid argumentation, I will be open to reading what you have to say.
It was not my intention to be condescending. You are trying to be reasonable.as soon as you edit your condescending opening statement.
I want to be honest here. I don’t trust you.as soon as you edit your condescending opening statement.
And over 2000 years ago, St. Peter denied Christ. 3 times. He also tried to turn Christ away from His mission. St. Paul accused St. Peter, publicly, for scandelous behavior. St. Peter acknowledged his error. Just a few interesting tidbits.I think that you are not interested in what the Holy Father has to say , only what you think
He is Peter, not you
Do you believe that denying the holocaust is wrong? What is your position on Bishop’s Williamson promoting the protocols of the elders of Zion? What is your position vis vis the Bishop denying that millions of died at the hands of the National Socialists. Please enlighten me.I think that you are not interested in what the Holy Father has to say , only what you think
He is Peter, not you
Jesus Christ is my Lord and My God.And over 2000 years ago, St. Peter denied Christ. 3 times. He also tried to turn Christ away from His mission. St. Paul accused St. Peter, publicly, for scandelous behavior. St. Peter acknowledged his error. Just a few interesting tidbits.
This doesn’t answer the questions I asked you.No one is even giving Benedict a chance to explain…To let the magesterium sort this out
This only lifts the excommunication…They are not considered bishops…They are not teaching …they have only been admitted to a seat in the Barque of Peter…there is still a long way to go
Who knows how it will turn out?..but they should be given the same chance to repent and to reconcile as anyone else
You don’t have to like them or to agree with them
Christ gave us the formula for forgiveness, and he gave Peter the Keys
AS Catholics we should be mindful of both
your honesty is commendable, as is your desire for a sense of justice.I want to be honest here. I don’t trust you.
That said, it is clear you don’t trust me either. That is fine, it should be out in the open.
I am trying to be as reasonable as I can be given how offended I am by people defending what I view as evil.
Please understand that I am being sincere.
I am sorry brother. I still do not trust you.your honesty is commendable, as is your desire for a sense of justice.
It is not that I do not trust you, it is that I do not find your conclusions or your allegations credible, reasonable or supported by the facts.
If you’ve been paying any attention at all to what I have been saying, I am not necessarily a fan of Bishop Williamson’s remarks about or views of the Holocaust. Having Jews in my family, as well as in my circle of friends, and having known personally survivors, and children of survivors as well as grandchildren of survivors of the camps, I can understand your anger at his remarks. (For the record, I grew up down the road from a mother and son originally from Alsace-Lorraine who survived Auschwitz–he in a wheelchair, and had a friend in HS whose mother and uncles and aunts and grandparents escaped Danzig rolled in carpets and survived the war in hiding before coming to America. The man who ran the Deli around the corner from our home had the “tatoo” on his arm, as well as a disfigured face and severe limp…he was the only survivor of a family of 14 brothers and sisters… 3 other of my friends in HS had grandparents who survived other camps and told us of things they saw first hand.)
What I do not understand is how you can logically assume that he is anti-semitic or call him a holocaust denier. To stop your finger from bleeding you apply a bandage, you do not cut off the finger. This is what you have done analogously to the Bishop.
I love the Bishop as a Bishop–he is “my” Bishop. He is an amazing speaker from what I’ve heard him preach. As an historian, though, I believe he leaves much to be desired.
call him uninformed or ill-informed. but an anti-semite or holocaust denier goes beyond what we can logically know based on this interview.
I think you are trying to usurp Pope Benedict’s authorityThis doesn’t answer the questions I asked you.
I would also ask you to apologize to me for saying that “I don’t care what the Pope thinks.” That is a lie.