P
Palladio
Guest
Sorry, I don’t follow.
- Status
B
bones_IV
Guest
The book “Goodbye Good men” explains how the gay culture made it’s way into the seminaries.
How else to do you explain the Vatican’s recent statement on gay men and the priesthood?
P
Palladio
Guest
But I understand that, as my first post suggests.
There are crimes, and then distinguishing between these.
There are problems in the RCC which were and perhaps are conditions for some of these crimes, although these in no way excuse the filthy criminals or lessen the grotesque and perverted injustice of the crimes.
Myself, I see no easy answer to the problems, as distinct from the crimes, since if a homosexual does not act upon his desire, he commits no sin, to my knowledge. If he purges himself of certain thoughts, the same is true. I am assuming homosexuals are just that way, on the whole, as science seems to believe. But through self-mastery the homosexual can overcome sin: that is from the CCC, I seem to recall.
The homosexualization of the priesthood is a dire problem, because ‘homosexual culture,’ an oxymoron if ever there was one, is militant and narcissistic, and quite out of control.
Children are treated to the soft versions of it in the media so that what we never understood until adulthood they have a passing familiarity with. I would say that that is so by the age of 14, 16 tops: for really vile stuff, all you need is the internet and HBO.
Should homosexuals become priests?
No, I doubt it very much, from the effects their culture has had on the Church.
Whether that would have prevented the present situation is clear, but that is not to say that heterosexual men might not have perpetrated the same crimes on girls and young women.
S
seekerz
Guest
It’s interesting to see people try to dissect a problem that began in quite a different era from the one we presently live in.
Decades ago, most pedophilia was covered up regardless of who was involved. Children were often silenced or accused of being immodest if they even mentioned sexual advances…Pregnancies were covered up and babies were secretly put up for adoption…It was a different time, people.
As times changed, these things came out and hopefully with more awareness history will not repeat itself. However, I don’t think it does any good to sit and measure yesterday’s actions by today’s standards (not referring to legal standards here).
If anything, what the scandal has taught us is that while the Catholic Church is the true church, it is made up of fallible human beings. This prevents us from being complacent or holier-than-thou.
To drag around the twin burdens of guilt and shame or try to assuage it by blaming experts/church authorities/homosexual culture/whatever is to not learn the lesson of this experience.
It happened. We’re truly sorry. We make amends any way we can and move on. We can only change tomorrow, not yesterday.
Decades ago, most pedophilia was covered up regardless of who was involved. Children were often silenced or accused of being immodest if they even mentioned sexual advances…Pregnancies were covered up and babies were secretly put up for adoption…It was a different time, people.
As times changed, these things came out and hopefully with more awareness history will not repeat itself. However, I don’t think it does any good to sit and measure yesterday’s actions by today’s standards (not referring to legal standards here).
If anything, what the scandal has taught us is that while the Catholic Church is the true church, it is made up of fallible human beings. This prevents us from being complacent or holier-than-thou.
To drag around the twin burdens of guilt and shame or try to assuage it by blaming experts/church authorities/homosexual culture/whatever is to not learn the lesson of this experience.
It happened. We’re truly sorry. We make amends any way we can and move on. We can only change tomorrow, not yesterday.
P
Palladio
Guest
It is not a different era for those victimized.
By any standard of justice and morality, the RCC had better well take a hard look at it priesthood–and I know the figures for abuse are no different from those in the general population–who must be Christlike from ordination to the grave.
A cradle Catholic serving Mass at three parishes and attending three RC schools and close to priests, I never suffered the least harm in any regard–for the vast majority, this is so–but equally I consider myself superabundantly blessed to have looked and to look still upon our priests as Godly, as having always led me on the way, the truth, and the life that is Christ.
But the priests I know are getting on, and the younger ones must endure some battles that would be completely non-existant without the widespread homosexuality of the seminaries and priesthood.
Pray that the Church finds ways fast to undo the conditions that thwart or stop the vocations of the best and brightest, and you will have said a very good prayer indeed.
By any standard of justice and morality, the RCC had better well take a hard look at it priesthood–and I know the figures for abuse are no different from those in the general population–who must be Christlike from ordination to the grave.
A cradle Catholic serving Mass at three parishes and attending three RC schools and close to priests, I never suffered the least harm in any regard–for the vast majority, this is so–but equally I consider myself superabundantly blessed to have looked and to look still upon our priests as Godly, as having always led me on the way, the truth, and the life that is Christ.
But the priests I know are getting on, and the younger ones must endure some battles that would be completely non-existant without the widespread homosexuality of the seminaries and priesthood.
Pray that the Church finds ways fast to undo the conditions that thwart or stop the vocations of the best and brightest, and you will have said a very good prayer indeed.
B
bones_IV
Guest
John Paul II made numerous reforms in the priesthood. Cardinal Ratzinger played a pivotal role in it.
E
Elric
Guest
Actually what I said was that paedophillia and homosexuallity are not linked and that a paedophille can be hetrosexual or homosexual.Either way its paedophillia.
But lets say that you are right, it doesnt explain how this is the fault of the gay community.
Priests take a vow of celebacy and molesting children is legally and morally wrong.
It appears that the priests chose to break not only their vows, but also the law and societies morals. Not only that, but representativies of the church chose to hide/cover up these crimes. Where exactly does the homosexual community take part in this?
B
bones_IV
Guest
Many gays were in the seminary and scared off the orthodox seminaries.
E
Elric
Guest
You are right, things were different back then. It still doesnt excuse what happened or the actions taken by the churches representativies.
The church has always meant to be the spiritual and moral compass of society, they always teach us to do the right thing and to be good. Yet they chose to ignore their own teachings and possibly do the “safe” thing rather than the right thing.
The victims involved will never be able to move on, they have had their lives forcefully taken away from them.
It is very clear who is to blame, by their actoins or inaction, regardless of the perpertraitors sexual orientation or what councillers advised. Horrible crimes were commited and those in the know didnt act or covered them up and protected the wrong people.
What lessons do you think that the victims have taken from this?
E
Elric
Guest
That doesnt answer my question.
F
francesco920
Guest
If there is no link, why are the vast majority of victims boys? Why were these pedophiles more attracted to little boys than little girls? If it was mere coincidence, then there should have been about as many girls abused as boys, but that’s not the case. Boys were specifically targeted by these adult men That’s a homosexual attraction.
Homosexuality is a disorder. The gay community (leadership) actively denies this and actively encourages homosexuals to live out their homosexual tendencies. If we look at homosexuals vs. heterosexuals in general, we see things like homosexuals being more promiscuous than heterosexuals, more diseases among homosexuals, and yes, more child abuse. Ever heard of NAMBLA?
The point is that sin has consequences. Embracing and living out homosexual tendencies is gravely sinful, and the consequences for both those committing the sins and others are ugly.
P
Palladio
Guest
And our Holy Father clearly has further to go in the U. S.
I thought Sts. Augustine and Benedict had separation of the sexes as a rule.
Homosexuality in the priesthood violates this, but grossly, by presenting the very near occasion of sin we all forswear in the act of contrition.
Men continue actively to enter the priesthood as refuge for their practice of homosexuality.
This has got to stop.
N
Nohome
Guest
I’ve often thought this may be the case, but I have no fact to back it up. Though one could not argue that priesthood would be a convenient excuse for not being married. Lord knows I’ve encountered my share of femmy priests over the years.
Nohome
P
Palladio
Guest
I have direct witness testimony of it!
It gives me no pleasure to be able to say so.
Also, I’ve heard a number of priests second the gist of the book mentioned earlier in the thread Goodbye Good Men.
God bless.
S
seekerz
Guest
The healing, redemptive power of God’s love…
I’ve never been there, so I can’t speak for the victims but I can speak of the amazing power of God’s love to “take back” lives that have been wrecked and make them better than before.
For anyone who has been a victim, my advice would be: avail yourself of God’s power to fix all that has been broken. Re-take your life. Forgive, because that act will release you from the power of your abuser. Fix your eyes, not on the past (painful as it may have been ) but on Jesus who is willing and able to make all things new.
Your life has not been taken from you (that’s a cruel illusion created by someone else’s sinful acts). Take the first step today to reclaim it!
B
bones_IV
Guest
I got news for you, the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter is growing. And so is Christ the King Institute! And they are orthodox! We are seeing a renewal in the priesthood.
B
bones_IV
Guest
I think you’re ignoring the obvious. These sites point out the direct connection between homosexuality and pedophilia
“Africa, AIDS, homosexuality, pedophilia” at renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050702
“Child Molestation and Homosexuality” by Cameron familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet2.html
“Gay culture in Catholic Church grows,” worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26940
“Study shows link between homosexuality and pedophilia,” theinterim.com/2002/sept/02study.html
People who refuse to see the connection between pedophilia and homosexuality are sympathetic to abortion rights.
P
Palladio
Guest
Where is this gay community anyway? Besides the gay culture (oxymoronic term, I know) freely and openly supported by NBC and the media, where is it?
Surely gay community is a cant term conconcted by gay lobbyists for gays.
If so, it cannot explain the problems raised here at all.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
I firmly believe that the best time to get help for the child is when the situation is discovered.:twocents: Someone to help the child at the time and to make sure the child recovers from the situation is what was needed.
The parents have some blame in this situation also.:twocents: Not in that it happened, but that they agreed to not prosecute those responsible in many cases. Keeping things quiet was not the right thing to do. Help then and is not 20, 30, 40 or 50 years later is what was needed.
Please remember we are the church. And it is us that are now being punished for the sins of others.
Please don’t say I don’t know what I am saying. I lived through years of abuse and everyone turned a blind eye to it. And yes these were people I had the RIGHT to expect to be protecting me most hurting me. But, I know that all the money in the world will not change what happened.
Making those not directly involved responsible to pay money to me would only leave me with more sorrow for those that had to suffer now for someone else’s sins.
The fact that there are fewer parishes, schools, social services for those that are in need now would only make me feel guilty for the lack of money to provide those needed services now and in the future. My children and grandchildren and their future generations did no wrong and yet will be the ones to loose the anchor that these things provide to all Catholics.Pray for those that are harmed and that those in charge right now at this moment while it is happening to be brought to justice.
OK now back to the “sexperts”. If they knowingly sent these men back into public service when they were not CURED then they should be personally brought to justice Prosecute them and take their licenses.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
I do not think they knew that the offender could not be CURED till sometime around the mid-1980s. This is when these things were followed in the news and in federal data banks. Till then there was no shared information center for sex offenders. And there are still many that believe that they can be cured even now.
Remember the whole of Christianity is based on forgiveness.
- Status