Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[CMatt25]

You know, by the opinions that a few have expressed here, one would deduce that their logic SHOULD lead them to conclude that if one can afford to obtain the very most top-shelf kind of attire for attending Mass—like a tux or evening gown—then one is committing sin by NOT doing so.

How about it, people? I think you know who you are. If you could afford it, do you not think you would be OBLIGATED to wear a tux or an evening gown, in order to be consistent with the position you’ve already espoused?

 

[Wampa]

Don’t people get tired of having this same argument over and over and over? I’m amazed that this topic appears every week or so and it’s mostly the same people (on both sides) making the same arguments they made in every other thread on the topic.

Talk about a topic where both sides expend many words, but no minds are changed.

I know this is easy to turn back on me: then why do I keep reading them? Well, I did stop arguing in them. And I usually don’t read them anymore. Just thought I’d pop into this week’s attire thread and see if there was anything new under the sun. There isn’t

On the other hand, this the first time I’ve seen Rich O as a participant and I was surprised to see which side he comes down on, so that was refreshing

 

[curlycool89]

“Lord’s Gym” shirts – that sort of thing.

On one hand, the message is appropriate. On the other hand, you’re wearing a t-shirt to Mass.

So? Do you have something against forearms? What if it’s a dressy t-shirt instead, is that still bad?

Some on this thread don’t seem to understand that in one sense, it isn’t about the clothes at all, but that the outer being reflects our souls, who we really are. What insult we bring upon ourselves when we don’t dress with dignity for Mass – for the Lord!

Says who?

That’s nothing more than the health and wealth gospel. If a person has chicken pocks then they look terrible, but that has nothing to do with their soul. Obviously there were many leapers of Jesus’ time who loved God as they received healing.

Our “outer being” doesn’t reflect so much who we are as who we want to be seen as. There is a distinct difference. Maybe I’m too much of a cynical person, but in my opinion your clothes reflect how you want ordinary people to perceive you. You wear a suit to an interview because you want the interviewer to have a good perception of you. You can still be a slob the other 23 hours of the day as long as the interviewer doesn’t see that. All it is really is acting (Shakespeare did say that “all the world’s a stage” after all). Some of you might not (or might think you don’t), but the majority of people do because they’re not comfortable enough (that’s not an insult, it can take years or a lifetime to get over that, and it’s very hard). Most people act to some extent around other people, especially those they don’t know.

*Those for health reasons who need to wear athletic shoes, please make sure they are decently neat and clean if at all possible.

By “athletic” do you mean "running shoes? Because if you haven’t noticed, most people wear running shoes now. Dress shoes unfortunately only come in “uncomfortable”. Running shoes are just better to wear, especially for those who do not come to Church by their own vehicle (biking, walking).

It’s not about “worrying.” It’s about joining together as a common Body with the same mind/purpose, distinguished from the mind/purpose we have when:

going to the beach
going on a picnic
grocery shopping
watering the lawn
watching a football game
walking the dog

Who says you can’t have a reverent attitude while on the beach, or while shopping, or walking the dog? You’re making a lot of assumptions about people (projecting your own experiences onto other people?).

What if a person on the beach gazes out into the ocean and praises the greatness of God for making something so beautiful, wondrous, and amazing? Can you not thank God for the food and the farmers and the workers while shopping? And what if walking the dog is your tranquil time that you can also use to reflect on your day and what God has done for you?

People don’t realize it, but you can give away some fairly personal opinions by writing without even knowing you are, and some people are good at picking up on that. For example, Elizabeth502, I can tell quite well that you have segregated the spiritual from the everyday for yourself (and I can tell because I notice the same in my own life sometimes). There’s God, and then there’s everything else. It’s not a healthy attitude to take into life.
The idea of growing in holiness is that it affects everything you do in life. It doesn’t mean that you have to drop to your knees and pray all the time, but offer to God the mundane tasks you do everyday. Walking the dog doesn’t mean you’re choosing the dog over God.

The less outrageously people are dressed (for the occasion), the less most people are focused on the appearance of others, the more they can focus on their common purpose in attending. That is verifiable human behavior. The ones who are distracting are the ones whose attire and/or behavior (often they’re combined) are inappropriate for the moment, whatever that moment or setting is.

So how is this different from all the “I” complaining above? I’m distracted and I can’t focus and it’s all your fault.

 

[CMatt25]

So? Do you have something against forearms? What if it’s a dressy t-shirt instead, is that still bad?

Says who?

That’s nothing more than the health and wealth gospel. If a person has chicken pocks then they look terrible, but that has nothing to do with their soul. Obviously there were many leapers of Jesus’ time who loved God as they received healing.

Our “outer being” doesn’t reflect so much who we are as who we want to be seen as. There is a distinct difference. Maybe I’m too much of a cynical person, but in my opinion your clothes reflect how you want ordinary people to perceive you. You wear a suit to an interview because you want the interviewer to have a good perception of you. You can still be a slob the other 23 hours of the day as long as the interviewer doesn’t see that. All it is really is acting (Shakespeare did say that “all the world’s a stage” after all). Some of you might not (or might think you don’t), but the majority of people do because they’re not comfortable enough (that’s not an insult, it can take years or a lifetime to get over that, and it’s very hard). Most people act to some extent around other people, especially those they don’t know.

By “athletic” do you mean "running shoes? Because if you haven’t noticed, most people wear running shoes now. Dress shoes unfortunately only come in “uncomfortable”. Running shoes are just better to wear, especially for those who do not come to Church by their own vehicle (biking, walking).

Who says you can’t have a reverent attitude while on the beach, or while shopping, or walking the dog? You’re making a lot of assumptions about people (projecting your own experiences onto other people?).

What if a person on the beach gazes out into the ocean and praises the greatness of God for making something so beautiful, wondrous, and amazing? Can you not thank God for the food and the farmers and the workers while shopping? And what if walking the dog is your tranquil time that you can also use to reflect on your day and what God has done for you?

People don’t realize it, but you can give away some fairly personal opinions by writing without even knowing you are, and some people are good at picking up on that. For example, Elizabeth502, I can tell quite well that you have segregated the spiritual from the everyday for yourself (and I can tell because I notice the same in my own life sometimes). There’s God, and then there’s everything else. It’s not a healthy attitude to take into life.
The idea of growing in holiness is that it affects everything you do in life. It doesn’t mean that you have to drop to your knees and pray all the time, but offer to God the mundane tasks you do everyday. Walking the dog doesn’t mean you’re choosing the dog over God.

So how is this different from all the “I” complaining above? I’m distracted and I can’t focus and it’s all your fault.

Great post Curly!

I wear athletic shoes to Mass. Athletic shoes are difficult enough to find for my feet. Dress shoes are nearly impossible. I have a pair but wear them as little as I can. But I actually didn’t know until I came to CAF that there might be so many Catholics who would be focused on my shoes. I’ve also walked the beach in my barefeet and done exactly what you described.

And I too have been wondering throughout this discussion how it is different to accuse us of “I”. God bless and peace be with you.

 

[EddieAlbania]

So? Do you have something against forearms? What if it’s a dressy t-shirt instead, is that still bad?

I have nothing against forearms. I was simply posing the question – would a T-Shirt with a Christian themed message be appropriate for Mass (as opposed to a shirt & tie, dress shirt, polo shirt, etc.)?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

On the other hand, this the first time I’ve seen Rich O as a participant and I was surprised to see which side he comes down on, so that was refreshing

Even we liberals can have a decent appreciation of what is right to wear to Mass, not to impress other parishioners, but to acknowledge where we are, and what would be most appropriate in the House of God.

 

[garn9173]

Interesting thread, however, i’m not sure what the point of the article that the OP linked to. Hasn’t casual dress at Mass been the norm for decades? I’m 38 years old and can remember as a child, I hated having to “dress up” for Mass because all of the other kids in my CCD class were in jeans, etc.

I have no problems with casual dress, heck, you should’ve seen all of the Iowa St. gear that was worn at Mass last Sunday after Iowa St. defeated Iowa, would’ve been the same way if Iowa had won.

My attire for Mass consists of khaki shorts, a polo shirt, and sandals. Couple of weeks ago, I wore my Husker polo (i’m a huge Husker fan) and someone said “welcome to the Big 10”.

Just don’t dress like you’re going out clubbing on a Saturday night, espically women, and I have no issues with how people dress.

 

[Elizabeth502]

No that’s not all that’s been asked.

It most certainly is. Reread Ishii’s post.

So do you and Ishii, others, get to decide if Annabelle Marie’s husband’s shorts are distracting?

Straw Man #91.
Never said. Never implied. Ishii did not say that. I did not say that. It’s not about others “deciding.” It’s about the individual making an honest assessment as to whether going-to-Mass-clothes are interchangeable with walking the dog clothes, being-on -a-picnic-clothes, going-to-a-sports-event-clothes, etc. The answer on this thread, for those who apparently deeply resent any official in the Church (i.e., cited article) providing the slightest bit of guidance over the flock, is, Yes, darn right; I’ve thought about it. Mass is indistinguishable from every other day of the week.

 

[jmcrae]

If to God the parable applies to spiritual matters, then that is more reason for me not to compare God’s expectations on what clothing we wear with what secular society’s expectations might be when we meet Oueen Elizabeth or President Barack Obama or attend a loved one’s funeral or job interview. Actually I’ve attended a loved one’s funeral where many came casual and I was just glad they came.

Why were you “just glad they came”? Did you, or they, so devalue your loved one that either you or they thought they had something better or more important to do that day?

I also get much more out of the Mass when I am there in comfort instead of wishing I were out of my “dress” clothing and shoes. But to each their own I guess as to what they prefer to wear. I’m certain God who knows the heart doesn’t reject the disciple in sandals more than he rejects the rich man in a suit. Neither of which can walk on water. God bless and peace.

Actually, I find that well-made, more expensive clothing is actually more comfortable and fits better than cheap casual clothing.

 

[Tigg]

No that’s not all that’s been asked. Ishii says to give it some thought and to wear something not distracting. So do you and Ishii, others, get to decide if Annabelle Marie’s husband’s shorts are distracting? Because they don’t meet YOUR standards of proper attire? Give me a break. If Annabelle Marie does not find her own husband’s shorts distracting to her at Mass, nor others in their congregation, nor their parish priest, holes are burned into your arguments. I presume the same Jesus is present at their parish as at yours. **Annabelle Marie was even called to serve in jeans. **
curlycool89;8368531:

Says who?

Our “outer being” doesn’t reflect so much who we are

as who we want to be seen as. There is a distinct difference. Maybe I’m too much of a cynical person, but in my opinion your clothes reflect how you want ordinary people to perceive you.

I said I was done, but sorry, I’m back – ‘cause, no matter my huff, I believe this is an important thread!

Annabelle freely made the decision to wear jeans to Mass knowing there was a chance she might be called to serve. Big distinction there – and I would suggest that rather than the Lord manifesting his “humor” as she interpreted it, *perhaps *HE was using this instance as a source of instruction and an opportunity to draw the heart of HIS beloved daughter closer to Himself. Maybe he wanted her to see that every Mass, whether during the week, or on Sunday, whether she is scheduled to serve or not, is of Infinite value. Maybe he was saying look to the Mass and always come appropriately prepared because My saving action will take place regardless whether you are near the altar or not, and no matter how highly visible you are to the congregation, I, the LORD, see you in your entirety – both soul and body (and how it is dressed in deference to My Presence.)

My argument has been, addressing curlycool, that we show respect for the Divine with our entire being since that’s the way the Lord sees us - He does not separate body from soul. How could our dress not possibly reflect who we are inside – it is an expression of our attitudes and being. The soul, the very essence of who we are, is the faculty by which we choose, consciously, or even unconsciously, to dress in the manner we do.

I’ve looked at people at Mass in attire that I’d never even wear to the grocery store. It offends my sense of modesty and chastity, my sense of respect and dignity, and if I were to wear such clothes to Mass, I would be guilty of sin. Now before you misunderstand me – that doesn’t mean others sin if they do not hold the same conviction in their hearts but I’m trying to counter your point that the outer being does indeed, reflect the attitude of the heart.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please discuss the issues, not each other. If you don’t like the topic of the thread, find another to read.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Annabelle freely made the decision to wear jeans to Mass knowing there was a chance she might be called to serve. Big distinction there – and I would suggest that rather than the Lord manifesting his “humor” as she interpreted it, *perhaps *HE was using this instance as a source of instruction and an opportunity to draw the heart of HIS beloved daughter closer to Himself. Maybe he wanted her to see that every Mass, whether during the week, or on Sunday, whether she is scheduled to serve or not, is of Infinite value. Maybe he was saying look to the Mass and always come appropriately prepared because My saving action will take place regardless whether you are near the altar or not, and no matter how highly visible you are to the congregation, I, the LORD, see you in your entirety – both soul and body (and how it is dressed in deference to My Presence.)
.

I appreciate that you tried to do this with sensativity…but as the moderator said…please cease to discuss me and what God told me or didn’t tell me. That is not for you to decide.

Thank you

 

[irishpatrick]

What would any of us wear if we had a special dinner to attend?

That is the litmus test for all of us. I am also guilty of not dressing properly for Mass every now and then–it is very easy to be lazy and to take the Lord for granted (He is, after all, there in the Tabernacle and during Communion).

Yet, if we had a formal dinner to attend, what would we where?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

The idea that our home is where we can SLOB or live like pigs because it’s COMFORTABLE and we don’t have to exert ourselves, and that God is like the ‘daddy’ who’s sitting their in the recliner wearing a ratty bathrobe and chugging a brew, and Ma is wearing curlers and a housedress, and the kids are wandering through in anything from a diaper to filthy play clothes, says more about the lack of respect that some elements of society have developed FOR the family. . .

Strawman…I don’t believe anyone has said this. What I did quote is that Mass is like HOME. That doesn’t mean that home is like you have described above. I don’t see anyone on here advocating wearing a ratty bathrobe, curlers, or dirty clothes to Mass?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

What would any of us wear if we had a special dinner to attend?

That is the litmus test for all of us. I am also guilty of not dressing properly for Mass every now and then–it is very easy to be lazy and to take the Lord for granted (He is, after all, there in the Tabernacle and during Communion).

Yet, if we had a formal dinner to attend, what would we where?

That is different for everyone. I myself would wear what I have…and wear to work…dockers and such. I’m not one to go out and buy new stuff for a formal dinner.

 

[CMatt25]

Interesting thread, however, i’m not sure what the point of the article that the OP linked to. Hasn’t casual dress at Mass been the norm for decades? I’m 38 years old and can remember as a child, I hated having to “dress up” for Mass because all of the other kids in my CCD class were in jeans, etc.

I have no problems with casual dress, heck, you should’ve seen all of the Iowa St. gear that was worn at Mass last Sunday after Iowa St. defeated Iowa, would’ve been the same way if Iowa had won.

My attire for Mass consists of khaki shorts, a polo shirt, and sandals. Couple of weeks ago, I wore my Husker polo (i’m a huge Husker fan) and someone said “welcome to the Big 10”.

Just don’t dress like you’re going out clubbing on a Saturday night, espically women, and I have no issues with how people dress.

YES it has! That has been one of my points. Casual dress is nothing new like it is trying to be portrayed here. 4 decades ago we (me and others) were wearing jeans too. And some in the parish I attended at the time were wearing suits and ties and dresses. No one had any problem with either. And I still have no problem if someone wants to come sit next to me in a sports jersey or in a suit or dress. I offer the sign of peace to all. Sometimes they offer it back to me in my shorts and sometimes they don’t.

 

[jmcrae]

YES it has! That has been one of my points. 4 decades ago we were wearing jeans too. Casual dress is nothing new like it is trying to be portrayed here.

Four decades ago, everyone (meaning, all the cool people) was a hippie.

Do we really want to go back to that?

 

[JHow]

Four decades ago, everyone (meaning, all the cool people) was a hippie.

Do we really want to go back to that?

No. I don’t want to go back to “leisure-suits”, either. Those were considered formal - and modest - but also hideous in the same breath.

 

[CMatt25]

It most certainly is. Reread Ishii’s post.

Straw Man #91.
Never said. Never implied. Ishii did not say that. I did not say that. It’s not about others “deciding.” It’s about the individual making an honest assessment as to whether going-to-Mass-clothes are interchangeable with walking the dog clothes, being-on -a-picnic-clothes, going-to-a-sports-event-clothes, etc. The answer on this thread, for those who apparently deeply resent any official in the Church (i.e., cited article) providing the slightest bit of guidance over the flock, is, Yes, darn right; I’ve thought about it. Mass is indistinguishable from every other day of the week.

Elizabeth, please don’t put such words into our mouths. I don’t recall anyone saying “dam right”. I find it offensive. I certainly didn’t say that. But I, as an individual, have thought about it. And my honest assessment is Jesus does not mind if I wear jeans, or cargo or docker type shorts and athletic shoes on my feet to His house. And if that means someone else wouldn’t associate with me IRL, I can live with it. I know my heart on the inside and I believe Jesus does too.

 

[CMatt25]

Why were you “just glad they came”? Did you, or they, so devalue your loved one that either you or they thought they had something better or more important to do that day?

Actually, I find that well-made, more expensive clothing is actually more comfortable and fits better than cheap casual clothing.

I was glad they came to offer me love and support regardless of attire. And no, I nor they, devalued my mother and I find it offensive for you to even ask such a thing.

Good I’m glad you find that.