Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[ChiRho]

I don’t have to impress Jesus, either.

Why not?

 

[ChiRho]

Again a deacon and 2 or 3 priests in NY and Arkansas in the OP link. What if someone in lets say Oregon had their priest draw a different line? Or take a bishop where I live who might compel Catholics to obey him by attending lets say a Thursday Holy Day. Or else commit mortal sin. Whereas a bishop in lets say Canada for instance might say there the feast day is transferred to Sunday. Surely you would not expect the Catholic where I live to obey the Canadian bishop in that regard.

People continually bring up the “but who draws the line?” argument as if it is sufficient to prove that no line should be drawn, and that any attempt to do so is in vain. No one is advocating only specific types of leather belts be worn, or only black shoes shined within 2 weeks be allowed, or dresses must be made of no less than 60% cotton, or whatever. The guidelines people are advocating are very general: Don’t wear street clothes, and look presentable.

People know what presentable is. There is plenty of leeway in this. Want to wear a jacket and tie? fine. Want to wear just slacks and a dress shirt? that works too. Want to wear a skirt and a blouse? or want to wear a dress and a hat? they all work. It really isn’t that complicated. Those who are advocating a return to the practice of wearing nice clothes to Mass aren’t asking for much. But those who don’t think it should matter act as if they are setting unreasonably high standards that are intentionally made impossible so that those who fail to meet them can be looked down upon. It’s not that hard to buy a pair of slacks or a dress that you can wear once a week for 60 minutes.

 

[CMatt25]

Why not?

Reread her post. She said why. She said “other than the serious attempts I am always trying to make in following Him in what I think and do… and avoid doing”. And she obviously has done supposedly only what it is that some here tell us they ask of us. To judge ourselves and our own attire. And she has determined there is nothing wrong with wearing for instance sneakers to church and that doing so does not disrespect God. Others of us have deternined the same. YMMV. And that’s fine too. :tiphat: It’s not like we’re discussing infallible dogma or doctrine for goodness sakes.

 

[ChiRho]

Reread her post. She said why. She said “other than the serious attempts I am always trying to make in following Him in what I think and do… and avoid doing”. And she obviously has done supposedly only what it is that some here tell us they ask of us. To judge ourselves and our own attire. And she has determined there is nothing wrong with wearing for instance sneakers to church and that doing so does not disrespect God. Others of us have deternined the same. YMMV. And that’s fine too. :tiphat: It’s not like we’re discussing infallible dogma or doctrine for goodness sakes.

The point is that weakening of standards do nothing to help anyone, no matter how they subjectively think that “God is calling them” to wear sneakers or sweatpants. I’ve always maintained there’s a reason priests spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on their vestments (often out of pocket), and it is because they feel that the financial sacrifice of buying fine garments to the most important ceremony on earth is something they can be bothered to do. And left to our own devices, if we judged our self, we’d rarely find fault. That’s why community debate on the matter is important, because it brings up points that we alone might not have considered

 

[CMatt25]

People continually bring up the “but who draws the line?” argument as if it is sufficient to prove that no line should be drawn, and that any attempt to do so is in vain. No one is advocating only specific types of leather belts be worn, or only black shoes shined within 2 weeks be allowed, or dresses must be made of no less than 60% cotton, or whatever. The guidelines people are advocating are very general: Don’t wear street clothes, and look presentable.

People know what presentable is. There is plenty of leeway in this. Want to wear a jacket and tie? fine. Want to wear just slacks and a dress shirt? that works too. Want to wear a skirt and a blouse? or want to wear a dress and a hat? they all work. It really isn’t that complicated. Those who are advocating a return to the practice of wearing nice clothes to Mass aren’t asking for much. But those who don’t think it should matter act as if they are setting unreasonably high standards that are intentionally made impossible so that those who fail to meet them can be looked down upon. It’s not that hard to buy a pair of slacks or a dress that you can wear once a week for 60 minutes.

Nor have I read anyone advocating women come in their 2 pc skimpiest bikini. But you’re right about how there is (or at least should be) plenty of leeway. Want to wear a nice pair of knee length beige shorts with a clean, navy colored tee shirt? Or blue jeans with a top without buttons, and sneakers. They all work too. I’ve even seen Jesus Himself along with His disciples depicted walking in sandals. So now about Who sets the standards you were referring too?

 

[ChiRho]

Want to wear a nice pair of knee length beige shorts with a clean, navy colored tee shirt? Or blue jeans with a top without buttons, and sneakers. They all work too.

which is more presentable for a holy occasion: formal attire or casual attire?

Priests seem to know the answer to this, which is why they wear beautiful vestments, often presented as a holy gift to them upon their ordination

 

[CMatt25]

Well, I do not make it a point to impress a traffic court judge by what I wear. As if being caught going too fast in a school zone on a weekday when I really truly thought it was a Sunday had anything to do with how safe a driver I am has to do with what I wore to traffic court.

I don’t have to impress Jesus, either. Other than the serious attempts I am always trying to make in following Him in what I think and do… and avoid doing.

There’s nothing at all wrong with wearing sneakers to Mass!

Bottom line – modest clothing as clean as you can get it is the way to go.

If anybody thinks otherwise of whether I’m respecting God by what I’m wearing to Mass, then they are judging me. And their (“Church leader,” priest, bishop, or lay person) judgment of me is not my concern.

 

[CMatt25]

which is more presentable for a holy occasion: formal attire or casual attire?

Priests seem to know the answer to this, which is why they wear beautiful vestments, often presented as a holy gift to them upon their ordination

Well if I had met Jesus and His disciples walking in sandals, I’d have considered it a holy occasion for me to be in His presence along with his other disciples.

 

[ChiRho]

Well if I had met Jesus and His disciples walking in sandals, I’d have considered it a holy occasion for me.

You’re sidestepping the question, so I’ll pose it again, more specifically: which is more presentable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: formal attire or casual attire?

(And if your answer was the barometer, priests might as well throw away their beautiful vestments since they could apparently time travel and meet Jesus wearing sandals – which for the record don’t have the same societal connotation as flip flops, even though you state “sandals” as if they do – )

 

[PatriceA]

You’re sidestepping the question, so I’ll pose it again, more specifically: which is more presentable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: formal attire or casual attire?

(And if your answer was the barometer, priests might as well throw away their beautiful vestments since they could apparently time travel and meet Jesus wearing sandals – which for the record don’t have the same societal connotation as flip flops, even though you state “sandals” as if they do – )

Your point of view of trying to tie in the vestments of the priest to wanting people to dress up is a lukewarm arguement. Some priests have VERY fancy attire, others not so much and can be quite plain and even considered “casual” by some standards. They are always modest though, which is what everyone on either side of this discussion in this thread is agreeing on.

 

[CMatt25]

You’re sidestepping the question, so I’ll pose it again, more specifically: which is more presentable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: formal attire or casual attire?

(And if your answer was the barometer, priests might as well throw away their beautiful vestments since they could apparently time travel and meet Jesus wearing sandals – which for the record don’t have the same societal connotation as flip flops, even though you state “sandals” as if they do – )

Well if you now decide to pose it that way, I think you’ve been given the answer to that on the thread by many of us already. It’s not a question for many of us as to what is more presentable on the outside. Many of us after looking at ourselves as directed by others holding your POV, have determined it is presentable for you to wear formal attire to Mass if you choose. And if we wear something more casual along the lines of things we’ve actually discussed wearing, then it is equally presentable we believe too. Sorry if you think that is a dodge too. But many of us are just simply far more concerned about the heart being presentable on the inside to which Jesus looks beyond outer clothing to see. To bother spending too much time for instance in the pew at Mass or in another venue, wondering what is in the heart of another based on their outer appearance.

I can only speak for myself. But I know I’ve been in a pew by a side entrance and have seen someone come dressed to the “T” and another walk in with flip flops. And it has never even crossed my mind as to which has a more respectful heart. For starters I’m not Jesus to be able to see inside to begin with.

In any case I hope that helps! God bless!

 

[ChiRho]

Well if you now decide to pose it that way, I think you’ve been given the answer to that on the thread by many of us already. It’s not a question for many of us as to what is more presentable on the outside. Many of us after looking at ourselves as directed by others holding your POV, have determined it is presentable for you to wear formal attire to Mass if you choose. And if we wear something more casual along the lines of things we’ve actually discussed wearing, then it is equally presentable we believe too. Sorry if you think that is a dodge too. ** But many of us are just simply far more concerned about the heart being presentable on the inside to which Jesus looks beyond outer clothing to see**. To bother spending time for instance in the pew at Mass or in another venue, wondering what is in the heart of another based on their outer appearance. In any case I hope that helps! God bless!

Just like the priests vestments, the effort it takes to dress nicely can indeed be considered a devotion, an outward sign (a work) performed for God, not to mention to show to others that the sacrifice you are taking place in is important (not that you are important). This is not to the exclusion of being internally prepared, of course. As Jesus said of the Pharisees, referring to their outward signs of piety “These things they should have done, but not left out the others” (the inward signs).

 

[PatriceA]

Just like the priests vestments, the effort it takes to dress nicely can indeed be considered a devotion, an outward sign (a work) performed for God. This is not to the exclusion of being internally prepared, of course. As Jesus said of the Pharisees, referring to their outward signs of piety “These things they should have done, but not left out the others” (the inward signs).

It CAN be considered a devotion, doesn’t mean it MUST be a devotion to dress more nicely according to someone else’s standards than our own.

 

[ChiRho]

It CAN be considered a devotion, doesn’t mean it MUST be a devotion to dress more nicely according to someone else’s standards than our own.

Hopefully more and more people will take up this devotion that was once a foregone conclusion, and people can dress as nicely for Mass as they would for a first date or other special occasion. And hopefully more priests will strongly encourage this among the faithful

 

[CMatt25]

It CAN be considered a devotion, doesn’t mean it MUST be a devotion to dress more nicely according to someone else’s standards than our own.

Good pt Patrice.

 

[CMatt25]

Hopefully more and more people will take up this devotion that was once a foregone conclusion, and people can dress as nicely for Mass as they would for a first date or other special occasion. And hopefully more priests will strongly encourage this among the faithful

I once went on a first date to a luau type affair in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and sneakers. Or did I have my flip flops on? I do remember the supper they served was great though!

Speaking of, now I’m off in my cargos, a tee, and sneakers for some dinner. Peace.

 

[ChiRho]

I once went on a first date to a luau type affair in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and sneakers. Or did I have my flip flops on? I do remember the supper they served was great though!

Unless most first dates are held in casual attire, or most formal occasions are attended in jeans and sneakers, you’re not bolstering your argument since you’re trying to disprove the rule with the exception

Speaking of, now I’m off in my cargos, a tee, and sneakers for some dinner. Peace.

cute, but antagonizing is useless

 

[irishpatrick]

That is different for everyone. I myself would wear what I have…and wear to work…dockers and such. I’m not one to go out and buy new stuff for a formal dinner.

So, you are invited to see the Pope, you’d wear dockers? How about a personal invite to the White House to see the President.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

So, you are invited to see the Pope, you’d wear dockers? How about a personal invite to the White House to see the President.

If I was at St. Peter’s…yea dockers. If I had a personal meeting with the Pope…probably buy one inexpensive dress. The President…yea dockers…don’t care if I meet him.

Aside from the Pope…yea that’s it. But I’m not meeting the Pope everyday…which would require more then one dress. I am however attending Mass everyday…

Does that bug you? I would ask why?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

The point is that weakening of standards do nothing to help anyone, no matter how they subjectively think that “God is calling them” to wear sneakers or sweatpants. I’ve always maintained there’s a reason priests spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on their vestments (often out of pocket), and it is because they feel that the financial sacrifice of buying fine garments to the most important ceremony on earth is something they can be bothered to do. And left to our own devices,** if we judged our self, we’d rarely find fault. That’s why community debate on the matter is important, because it brings up points that we alone might not have considered**

So we let the others do the juding for us??

So are you listen to points that you might not have considered? Such as…maybe God isn’t calling them to wear sneakers…maybe what He is saying though is there are more important things to consider then what you are wearing? Or that he is saying that to one but working with someone to dress up a little? It would all depend on where God is with us and where we are in the clay. But you could not possibly know that…not being God.

I find it ironic that we are doing all this discussion when in fact most of the article was about modesty…and being clean. People that might have a problem with that probably are not here on this thread…I know I’m not dying to wear my hooters T-shirt to Mass anytime soon