Support for nuclear weapons

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None of that “condemns” nuclear weapons, just expresses grave concerns about them. The statement you quoted has a big qualification, “…aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities or of extensive areas along with their population.” Such is not US policy on nuclear weapons. Also, there is the issue of the Church stepping out of its “swim lane” of morality and spirituality.

Killing people unjustifiably is an issue of morality. How they are killed in a just war (which the Vatican still subscribes to), is a matter of military science, not the Vatican’s purview. Also, the Vatican can say whatever they want. They are a moral beacon but have no authority. If nuclear weapons are pointed at the US or its allies, it would be suicide to get rid of them. If the Church got its way, it would not be long before there was no US and no Vatican. There are evil people and evil countries in this world. They want to kill us. They can kill us if not deterred. The Vatican is playing right into their hands.
 
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The assumption that the Russians “want to kill us” is not correct. Russia is not a traditional enemy of the USA and is no longer bound by communist ideology. But the Russians live in great fear of the USA for one reason: our nuclear armed ICBMs and SLBMs. It is this fear that will lead to global nuclear war, and not some innate Russian preoccupation with killing US citizens.

The course of “deterrence” is condemned by the Church. It will lead, in the end, to the destruction of civilization. It’s not for nothing that the Prophet Jeremiah says that the dead will be scattered across the world from end to end with no one to bury them (25:33.)

Unilateral nuclear disarmament is not a risky course of action. It is, in fact, the only safe course. BTW, JimG, nuclear disarmament means standing down, dismantling, and disposing of nuclear bombs. An expensive and time consuming process to be sure, but one that will ensure our survival.
 
Russia also known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics … the Soviet Union … employed strenuous efforts to bring the United States of America under their control.

People who attempted to combat Russian/Communist infiltration into the United States body politic were vilified by Soviet supporters.

https://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068

And read Diana West:


Read up also on the Venona project:


We have the Russians in their own words as they invaded our civil society.

Start with these three sources and then use Amazon to dig up additional sources.
 
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MonteRCMS said:
Russia also known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics … the Soviet Union … employed strenuous efforts to bring the United States of America under their control.
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It goes both ways doesn’t it?
 
The United States of America has always been an open society.

The Soviet Union always was a closed society.

HUGE difference(s).
 
The United States tried to spy on the Soviet Union, but was largely unsuccessful. The secret police of the Soviet Union were very good at arresting suspects who were “interrogated” and then were executed or were put away in places such as the Gulag Archipelago. Check out organizations such as the Cheka, the NKVD, the KGB and GRU, and others.

I am told that the USSR has or had internal passports. You needed permission to travel internally. But the United States is open. You can just get in your car and go. [You used to be able to get on an airplane and just go, but some people took advantage of that freedom and caused us to adopt all sorts of defensive measures.]

We invented some techniques such as aerial reconnaissance that helped but were very limited in their success. The United States tried all sorts of technical things, but they were not as successful as the Soviet networks of agents who moved about freely.

Soviet spies operating in the United States had a much easier time operating and were very successful, owing mostly to the way our Constitution protects individual rights.

Look up this book Amazon.com

and also check out the similar books.
 
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Oh please. The Vatican fits into this how? https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against-Germany/dp/0895260344

There’s a lot of good material showing that Pope Pius XII spoke out against the Nazis. He spoke perfect German and asked for a meeting with a high-ranking Nazi official to ask if the reports he was getting were true. They were. I recall a photo associated with his interactions with certain Nazis, with an armed German soldier, rifle raised, standing guard outside the Vatican. I have seen a great number of period photos of German soldiers’ graves with a cross above. One series showed a local priest carrying out a funeral according to the customary practice of the times. Another series of photos showed the Union Jack held high over a grave of an unnamed British soldier. It was a burial with full military honors.
 
I was reacting to AINg’s statement that the Vatican State is the most influential nation at promoting peace around the world. Your post helps prove my point. All the ever do is talk, which is all they can do. Your post highlights that their talk was completely ineffective with the Nazis. It was Britain and the US that achieved the peace, by force of arms.
 
As a devoted historian of aerial overflights of the Soviet Bloc immediately after World War II, I contest this analysis as giving an entirely wrong impression. As far as Soviet agents who supposedly moved about freely, the FBI had a list. They were following them to see what they were interested in. That was in the 1940s, the overflights began in 1946 and included British aircraft that were modified and repainted. Winston Churchill ordered a study titled “Operation Unthinkable.” That was in June 1945. General Patton advocated attacking the Soviet Union in 1945. When Russian agents were found in the US government, prosecution for espionage was halted under the advice of the NSA due to the fact that we had broken a new Russian code, known as the Venona Decrypts, in 1946, and we couldn’t let them know how we knew a person was an agent. The actual Venona Project to crack Russian codes began in 1943 because the military decided it could not trust the Russians. So, we had a good handle on what was going on in the Soviet Union. In 1949, the US prepared Operation Dropshot which was a basic plan to take out Soviet assets quickly if the Russians moved west, which was expected to occur by 1957. The plan was later abandoned when operational ICBMs became available.
 
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edwest211 said:
There’s a lot of good material showing that Pope Pius XII spoke out against the Nazis.
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Have you heard about Bishop Alois Hudal, rector of the Pontificio Istituto Teutonico Santa Maria dell’Anima in Rome, and the ratlines?
 
Ah yes. That tells the uninformed reader nothing. Various people were trying to get out of Germany right after the war ended, including refugees. I have an official (now declassified) Counter-Intelligence Corps report from July 1945. Fake documents were being discovered, identities were changed. There was no way to know if among the fleeing refugees, which were bad guys and which just wanted out of war-torn Europe. Fer cryin’ out loud. The United States, due their technical or scientific value, sanitized the records of German war criminals because they had knowledge we needed (Operation Paperclip). They had expertise we needed to fight the enemy who emerged before the last bullets of World War II were fired. For example, members of the US Army hid Klaus Barbie, who was wanted by the French for war crimes. They inquired at the time to find out if the US knew where he was and we gave them a “We don’t know.”
 
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edwest211 said:
Ah yes. That tells the uninformed reader nothing. Various people were trying to get out of Germany right after the war ended, including refugees. I have an official (now declassified) Counter-Intelligence Corps report from July 1945. Fake documents were being discovered, identities were changed. There was no way to know if among the fleeing refugees, which were bad guys and which just wanted out of war-torn Europe. Fer cryin’ out loud. The United States, due their technical or scientific value, sanitized the records of German war criminals because they had knowledge we needed (Operation Paperclip). They had expertise we needed to fight the enemy who emerged before the last bullets of World War II were fired. For example, members of the US Army hid Klaus Barbie, who was wanted by the French for war crimes. They inquired at the time to find out if the US knew where he was and we gave them a “We don’t know.”
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It has been reported that Bishop Hudal aided the escape of wanted Nazi war criminals, including Franz Stangl, commanding officer of Treblinka, Gustav Wagner, commanding officer of Sobibor, Alois Brunner, and Adolf Eichmann ?
 
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Of course it is ok for you to support your government for trying to protect you.

It is impossible to prevent the loss of innocent lives. We are also innocent lives. Do we not defend ourselves and just allow an evil country to bomb us ?
 
There is very little precision with nuclear weapons unless the target is isolated and fenced in, with signs that read: U.S. Government Property. Do Not Enter, and sometimes Taking Photographs Is Forbidden. Then a small bit of text near the lower right hand corner. Or in a remote location.

If the target is located near a population center and has to go, whatever size/yield that is necessary will be used. The ‘enemy’ would do the same thing. Is it right? No. But what are our real choices?
 
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