M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Venona was stopped under orders from President Bill Clinton.
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M
MonteRCMS
Guest
I guess Russia won.
Certainly, they are not under OUR control.
Certainly, they are not under OUR control.
A
AlNg
Guest
Your source confirms what I said:All of the people mentioned were desperate to escape. All used fake identities. The Red Cross was issuing documents as well.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/claims-of-papal-help-for-nazi-war-criminals-verifiably-false
-…-It has long been known that Catholic Bishop Hudal and a Croatian Catholic priest named Krunoslav Draganovi helped some former Nazis escape from Europe.-…-
I never claimed that they were part of a papal mercy program, which Rychlak says is untrue.
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MonteRCMS
Guest
The list that the FBI had of Soviet agents was incomplete … to say the least.
AND it was extremely difficult to follow the actions of these Soviet agents with any degree of thoroughness.
And we know from retrospective study that the Soviet “spies” were extremely effective in gleaning our research and development secrets … and sending those secrets back to Russia [and to China] and making good use of them.
Everybody already knows about the ring(s) of atomic spies that the Russians had in the United States.
But read here to learn about how Russia stole our secrets and established their own Silicon Valley:
google youtube
https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Communism-Americans-Founded-Silicon/dp/0300195524
On page 298, Note 51 is extremely important to the debate regarding Soviet agents and moles in the United States.
"In April 1941, … the KGB had 221 agents in the United States … " from Mitrokhin, “The Sword and the Shield” [ 107, 128]
[does not include the GRU]
Note 50: 29 of the 2900 Venona decrypted messages record that Soviet agents were aware that FBI agents were monitoring their activities …
Engineering Communism is not only interesting because of the description of the founding of the USSR’s “Silicon Valley”, but also because it describes in great detail of the chase as the FBI gradually becomes aware of the extent to which Russian spying is taking place in the United States.
“Engineering Communism” is essential because it ties in with Diana West’s book "Betrayal … " . There are reviewers who deny that there were ANY Soviet agents or moles, but the evidence is only overwhelming. The only issue is what the numbers were.
We only decrypted a very tiny piece of 1% of the Soviet cables. [Remember that this was before the internet, before computers, before long distance telephone. There were only postal mail and telegrams. And it was very difficult for the FBI and police to coordinate their surveillance of enemy activity.]
Also, this book is about how the Soviet MILITARY electronics industry was developed … the proximity fuse, radar, etc.
This book also shows the weaknesses of the socialist system, in which ideological purity was more important that actual results.
This book is a must read! Interesting AND ties in with other studies of the time period and of the Soviet system.
AND it was extremely difficult to follow the actions of these Soviet agents with any degree of thoroughness.
And we know from retrospective study that the Soviet “spies” were extremely effective in gleaning our research and development secrets … and sending those secrets back to Russia [and to China] and making good use of them.
Everybody already knows about the ring(s) of atomic spies that the Russians had in the United States.
But read here to learn about how Russia stole our secrets and established their own Silicon Valley:
google youtube
https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Communism-Americans-Founded-Silicon/dp/0300195524
On page 298, Note 51 is extremely important to the debate regarding Soviet agents and moles in the United States.
"In April 1941, … the KGB had 221 agents in the United States … " from Mitrokhin, “The Sword and the Shield” [ 107, 128]
[does not include the GRU]
Note 50: 29 of the 2900 Venona decrypted messages record that Soviet agents were aware that FBI agents were monitoring their activities …
Engineering Communism is not only interesting because of the description of the founding of the USSR’s “Silicon Valley”, but also because it describes in great detail of the chase as the FBI gradually becomes aware of the extent to which Russian spying is taking place in the United States.
“Engineering Communism” is essential because it ties in with Diana West’s book "Betrayal … " . There are reviewers who deny that there were ANY Soviet agents or moles, but the evidence is only overwhelming. The only issue is what the numbers were.
We only decrypted a very tiny piece of 1% of the Soviet cables. [Remember that this was before the internet, before computers, before long distance telephone. There were only postal mail and telegrams. And it was very difficult for the FBI and police to coordinate their surveillance of enemy activity.]
Also, this book is about how the Soviet MILITARY electronics industry was developed … the proximity fuse, radar, etc.
This book also shows the weaknesses of the socialist system, in which ideological purity was more important that actual results.
This book is a must read! Interesting AND ties in with other studies of the time period and of the Soviet system.
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M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Have you read this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Spyflights-O...902109503/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
https://www.amazon.com/Spyflights-O...902109503/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Detailed discussion of 60 years of Soviet sponsored betrayal:
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Some details of the Venona project to break Soviet codes that were used against the United States:
https://www.amazon.com/Venona-Decoding-Soviet-Espionage-America/dp/0300084625
https://www.amazon.com/Venona-Decoding-Soviet-Espionage-America/dp/0300084625
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Only the tiniest percentage of Soviet messages were decrypted:
https://www.amazon.com/Venona-Secre...rd_wg=1CMDL&psc=1&refRID=QSW8GR9VPXZNPC16YDD1
https://www.amazon.com/Venona-Secre...rd_wg=1CMDL&psc=1&refRID=QSW8GR9VPXZNPC16YDD1
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
The Rise of the KGB in America:
https://www.amazon.com/Spies-Rise-F...rd_wg=XLDER&psc=1&refRID=YKBM59BV3XNQFMJ0HMYE
Note that the KGB archives were opened for a short while; however, the GRU archives were never opened.
https://www.amazon.com/Spies-Rise-F...rd_wg=XLDER&psc=1&refRID=YKBM59BV3XNQFMJ0HMYE
Note that the KGB archives were opened for a short while; however, the GRU archives were never opened.
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edwest211
Guest
My first book about this subject is “Blunder! How the U.S. Gave Away Nazi Supersecrets to Russia” by Tom Agoston. The layers of intelligence assets created and spread during World War II was on a previously unseen scale. The FBI operated a highly classified Special Intelligence Service during World War II. They were there to watch America’s southern neighbors and are described as “… America’s first organized counterespionage and counterintelligence service.” After the war, none of the experience gained was lost but there was confusion regarding Russia, our Ally yesterday and our enemy the following day. General Patton received negative publicity for his words spoken against Russia in 1945. Some even questioned his mental stability. He visited his family in June 1945 and told them they would not see him again. Then, after an accident with a US military vehicle, he died in hospital, but no accident report has been found.
Why was Berlin broken up into zones of occupation? The Office of Strategic Services had been infiltrated by Russian spies. It would later return as the Central Intelligence Agency. The British had spies as well, like Kim Philby.
Incompetence is not a very good answer. Or lack of coordination or information or capabilities is also not a good answer. The US Counter-Intelligence Corps has an official, likely incomplete, history, but it has never been published, only fragments. Some wartime agencies morphed into new identities after the war, like the Army Security Agency which became the National Security Agency (which existed before the start of World War II under a different name).
This subject relies on recently declassified material, while some of it remains locked away.
Why was Berlin broken up into zones of occupation? The Office of Strategic Services had been infiltrated by Russian spies. It would later return as the Central Intelligence Agency. The British had spies as well, like Kim Philby.
Incompetence is not a very good answer. Or lack of coordination or information or capabilities is also not a good answer. The US Counter-Intelligence Corps has an official, likely incomplete, history, but it has never been published, only fragments. Some wartime agencies morphed into new identities after the war, like the Army Security Agency which became the National Security Agency (which existed before the start of World War II under a different name).
This subject relies on recently declassified material, while some of it remains locked away.
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (Yale Nota Bene)
byJohn Earl Haynes
Haynes and Klehr wrote a bunch of books about Russian espionage into the U.S. and Britain.
450 Soviet agents. Just from this work.
It would be reasonable to expand that number by the work of other authors and / or other analysts.
Horrifying, when you consider the damage done and the protective cover provided to one mole by another.
Start with page 339 -->p. 370: 349 names.
p. 371ff: 139 names
p383: 33 names… not including 100 Soviet intelligence agents
p 387: 24 “targets”
p 391: nine cv’s of Soviet agents
pp 395-475 … detailed notes.
followed by a 12-page index
Amazing collection. Just from Haynes & Klehr
Correlate all that with other authors plus the memoirs of some of the Soviet handlers … huge collection of moles at work in the United States!
And that was as of 15 years ago!
Just add to all of that the additional information we have learned since then!!
Stunning!!
byJohn Earl Haynes
Haynes and Klehr wrote a bunch of books about Russian espionage into the U.S. and Britain.
450 Soviet agents. Just from this work.
It would be reasonable to expand that number by the work of other authors and / or other analysts.
Horrifying, when you consider the damage done and the protective cover provided to one mole by another.
Start with page 339 -->p. 370: 349 names.
p. 371ff: 139 names
p383: 33 names… not including 100 Soviet intelligence agents
p 387: 24 “targets”
p 391: nine cv’s of Soviet agents
pp 395-475 … detailed notes.
followed by a 12-page index
Amazing collection. Just from Haynes & Klehr
Correlate all that with other authors plus the memoirs of some of the Soviet handlers … huge collection of moles at work in the United States!
And that was as of 15 years ago!
Just add to all of that the additional information we have learned since then!!
Stunning!!
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M
MonteRCMS
Guest
It’s really important to read Haynes and Klehr.
In fact, they were working up almost to the present day to unearth the names of more Soviet agents.
Thanks to historians John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, we now know that Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal was a hotbed for hundred of spies for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and 1940s.
The Communist Party of the United States was a ripe recruiting ground for espionage, from the top leadership cadre down to the rank and file Party membership.
Courageous Americans who broke with the Party, such as former CPUSA General Secretary Benjamin Gitlow, author of The Whole of Their Lives: Communism in America: A Personal History and Intimate Portrayal of Its Leaders, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1948, have been vindicated in their warnings to the American people of this Trojan Horse within our country.
Some of the more notable scholarly works which have documented these facts include: Harvey Klehr,
John Earl Haynes and
Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov, The Secret World of American Communism, Yale University Press, 1995; Harvey Klehr, John Earl Haynes and
Kyrill M. Anderson, The Soviet World of American Communism, Yale University Press, 1998;
Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev, The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America - The Stalin Era, Random House, 1999;
John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, Yale University Press, 1999;
Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors, Regnery Publishing, 2000;
Joseph Albright and Marcia Kunstel, Bombshell: The Secret Story of America’s Unknown Atomic Spy Conspiracy, Crown, 1997; and
Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin, The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB, Basic Books, 1999.
An excellent paper summarizing this voluminous research was delivered at the `International Communism and Espionage’ session, European Social Science History Conference, March 2006, Amsterdam, The Netherlands, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr. It was entitled, “The Historiography of Soviet Espionage and American Communism: from Separate to Converging Paths.” It is available online.
The shocking new revelations of factual evidence unearthed by these researchers has not always been welcomed in the larger scholarly community.
Two of the most intrepid of these historians, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, have documented this on-going Battle of the Books in their celebrated, definitive work, In Denial: Historians, Communism & Espionage, Encounter Books, 2003.
For various reasons outlined in their book, many members of the academy have not let go of Cold War mythology and ideological distortions, and have actively sought to deny the new truths that emerged from these clandestine cloisters and dispute the documentary record.
They see controversy where none should exist. Refusing to believe that a new post-Cold War historiographic paradigm has emerged, they hold fast to an outdated interpretative status quo.
They do not want to come to terms with the shocking fact that Communism has been cast into the dustbin of human history.
In fact, they were working up almost to the present day to unearth the names of more Soviet agents.
Thanks to historians John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, we now know that Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal was a hotbed for hundred of spies for the Soviet Union during the 1930s and 1940s.
The Communist Party of the United States was a ripe recruiting ground for espionage, from the top leadership cadre down to the rank and file Party membership.
Courageous Americans who broke with the Party, such as former CPUSA General Secretary Benjamin Gitlow, author of The Whole of Their Lives: Communism in America: A Personal History and Intimate Portrayal of Its Leaders, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1948, have been vindicated in their warnings to the American people of this Trojan Horse within our country.
Some of the more notable scholarly works which have documented these facts include: Harvey Klehr,
John Earl Haynes and
Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov, The Secret World of American Communism, Yale University Press, 1995; Harvey Klehr, John Earl Haynes and
Kyrill M. Anderson, The Soviet World of American Communism, Yale University Press, 1998;
Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev, The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America - The Stalin Era, Random House, 1999;
John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, Yale University Press, 1999;
Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors, Regnery Publishing, 2000;
Joseph Albright and Marcia Kunstel, Bombshell: The Secret Story of America’s Unknown Atomic Spy Conspiracy, Crown, 1997; and
Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin, The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB, Basic Books, 1999.
An excellent paper summarizing this voluminous research was delivered at the `International Communism and Espionage’ session, European Social Science History Conference, March 2006, Amsterdam, The Netherlands, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr. It was entitled, “The Historiography of Soviet Espionage and American Communism: from Separate to Converging Paths.” It is available online.
The shocking new revelations of factual evidence unearthed by these researchers has not always been welcomed in the larger scholarly community.
Two of the most intrepid of these historians, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, have documented this on-going Battle of the Books in their celebrated, definitive work, In Denial: Historians, Communism & Espionage, Encounter Books, 2003.
For various reasons outlined in their book, many members of the academy have not let go of Cold War mythology and ideological distortions, and have actively sought to deny the new truths that emerged from these clandestine cloisters and dispute the documentary record.
They see controversy where none should exist. Refusing to believe that a new post-Cold War historiographic paradigm has emerged, they hold fast to an outdated interpretative status quo.
They do not want to come to terms with the shocking fact that Communism has been cast into the dustbin of human history.
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M
MonteRCMS
Guest
John Earl Haynes is Modern Political Historian in the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. He received his Ph.D. in 1978 from the University of Minnesota and a B.A. from Florida State University in 1966.
Web: johnearlhaynes.org
Dr. Haynes is the author of eleven books:
11. Spies: the Rise and Fall of the KGB in America (coauthors Harvey Klehr and Alexander Vassiliev, Yale University Press, 2009)
10. Early Cold War Spies: the Espionage Trials that Shaped American Politics (coauthor H. Klehr, Cambridge University Press, 2006)
9. In Denial: Historians, Communism and Espionage (coauthor H. Klehr, Encounter Books, 2002)
8. Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (coauthor H. Klehr, Yale University Press, 1999)
7. Calvin Coolidge and the Coolidge Era: Essays on the History of the 1920s (editor, Library of Congress and the University Press of New England, 1998)
6. The Soviet World of American Communism (coauthors H. Klehr and Kyrill Anderson, Yale University Press, 1998)
5. Red Scare or Red Menace? American Communism and Anticommunism in the Cold War Era (Ivan Dee Pub., 1996)
4. The Secret World of American Communism (coauthors H. Klehr and Fridrikh Firsov, Yale University Press, 1995)
3. The American Communist Movement: Storming Heaven Itself (coauthor H. Klehr, Twayne Pub., 1992)
2. Communism and Anti-Communism in the United States: An Annotated Guide to Historical Writings (Garland Pub., 1987, editor and compiler)
In addition to his historical activities, Dr. Haynes has served as the Assistant Commissioner for Tax Policy in the Revenue Department of the State of Minnesota, director of local aid in the Finance Department of the State of Minnesota, staff aide to two Minnesota governors, one U.S. Senator, and one U.S. Representative from Minnesota and researcher for a caucus of the Minnesota State Senate. He also served in staff positions on the Anderson For Governor Committee (Minnesota) and the Minnesota Humphrey for President Committee
Web: johnearlhaynes.org
Dr. Haynes is the author of eleven books:
11. Spies: the Rise and Fall of the KGB in America (coauthors Harvey Klehr and Alexander Vassiliev, Yale University Press, 2009)
10. Early Cold War Spies: the Espionage Trials that Shaped American Politics (coauthor H. Klehr, Cambridge University Press, 2006)
9. In Denial: Historians, Communism and Espionage (coauthor H. Klehr, Encounter Books, 2002)
8. Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (coauthor H. Klehr, Yale University Press, 1999)
7. Calvin Coolidge and the Coolidge Era: Essays on the History of the 1920s (editor, Library of Congress and the University Press of New England, 1998)
6. The Soviet World of American Communism (coauthors H. Klehr and Kyrill Anderson, Yale University Press, 1998)
5. Red Scare or Red Menace? American Communism and Anticommunism in the Cold War Era (Ivan Dee Pub., 1996)
4. The Secret World of American Communism (coauthors H. Klehr and Fridrikh Firsov, Yale University Press, 1995)
3. The American Communist Movement: Storming Heaven Itself (coauthor H. Klehr, Twayne Pub., 1992)
2. Communism and Anti-Communism in the United States: An Annotated Guide to Historical Writings (Garland Pub., 1987, editor and compiler)
- Dubious Alliance: The Making of Minnesota’s DFL Party (University of Minnesota Press, 1984)
He has also authored as of 2009 seventy-four published articles and essays along with a number of web-only essays.
In addition to his historical activities, Dr. Haynes has served as the Assistant Commissioner for Tax Policy in the Revenue Department of the State of Minnesota, director of local aid in the Finance Department of the State of Minnesota, staff aide to two Minnesota governors, one U.S. Senator, and one U.S. Representative from Minnesota and researcher for a caucus of the Minnesota State Senate. He also served in staff positions on the Anderson For Governor Committee (Minnesota) and the Minnesota Humphrey for President Committee
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
12 books:
Secret Cables of the Comintern, 1933-1943. With Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov and Harvey Klehr. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 2014. OCLC 861955213.
Secret Cables of the Comintern, 1933-1943. With Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov and Harvey Klehr. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 2014. OCLC 861955213.
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Need also to study up on Harvey Klehr - Wikipedia
J
jfz178
Guest
Having done nuclear weaponeering, I can say generally you are right, but there are a lot of factors. Precision is a relative term. Even with an isolated target, there is collateral damage and it depends on what kind of collateral damage you are willing to accept. An underground burst can be pretty precise, but it causes the most nuclear fallout. An airburst produces the smallest fallout and structural damage but takes out personnel in the open for a wide area. A surface ground burst is in the middle. A high altitude airburst produces little direct damage, but creates EMP that can take out electronic devices and electrical grids. That sounds the most humane on paper, but planners have determined that in urban area, the resulting post-apocalyptic scenario can easily produce more deaths over time than other deliveries.
Then you add that a lot of our potential enemies intentionally put military targets in the middle of civilian populations as a “shield.” Also, there are other delivery options, such as underwater bursts and nuclear sea mines for taking out subs. There are also weapons in the arsenal that can be more terrible than nuclear weapons. People forget that point. It’s a grim business. Unfortunately, I has to be done. People should take some small comfort in the fact that it is done by people who don’t want to have to use these weapons and/but will only follow the lawful orders of their elected leadership.
The general population only has a vague idea of the threats we are faced with and how fast and hard those threats could attack us. Hopefully, most won’t attack us because they have no reason to, there is nothing to be gained and they realize it would be the wrong thing to do. But there are definitely some who don’t care about those factors and would attack us tomorrow if they weren’t sure they would be annihilated the same day. Some of them don’t care about having select people die for the cause, but the leadership is generally not willing to die for the cause.
Then you add that a lot of our potential enemies intentionally put military targets in the middle of civilian populations as a “shield.” Also, there are other delivery options, such as underwater bursts and nuclear sea mines for taking out subs. There are also weapons in the arsenal that can be more terrible than nuclear weapons. People forget that point. It’s a grim business. Unfortunately, I has to be done. People should take some small comfort in the fact that it is done by people who don’t want to have to use these weapons and/but will only follow the lawful orders of their elected leadership.
The general population only has a vague idea of the threats we are faced with and how fast and hard those threats could attack us. Hopefully, most won’t attack us because they have no reason to, there is nothing to be gained and they realize it would be the wrong thing to do. But there are definitely some who don’t care about those factors and would attack us tomorrow if they weren’t sure they would be annihilated the same day. Some of them don’t care about having select people die for the cause, but the leadership is generally not willing to die for the cause.
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edwest211
Guest
I have seen published maps of nuclear fallout from nuclear tests that were later declassified. Depending on height, terrain, wind direction and speed, some fallout maps showed it traveling farther than I thought it could at the time. Regarding US ICBM silos, the amount of overpressure they could withstand was factored in. Hopefully, a Terminal Defense System could knock the warhead off course or cause ‘premature’ detonation. But the vast majority of the public during the ICBM period of the Cold War could not be bothered, or didn’t look into it. I am sure that “hardened circuits” exist for ground and space applications, so the EMP is understood, but is not accurately portrayed. Information is just left out.
Vague is good. Keeping the enemy in the dark or, at least, uncertain, is good. As far as unstable or ‘we don’t care what happens’ countries. Well, they are watched like hawks. I’m also convinced their military infrastructure could be taken out quickly with recently announced weapon systems. And God knows what else the US has that falls into the ‘need to know’ category.
Vague is good. Keeping the enemy in the dark or, at least, uncertain, is good. As far as unstable or ‘we don’t care what happens’ countries. Well, they are watched like hawks. I’m also convinced their military infrastructure could be taken out quickly with recently announced weapon systems. And God knows what else the US has that falls into the ‘need to know’ category.
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jfz178
Guest
It’s not all that secret. Go to NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein You can select a city, a nuclear device that is in current inventories and chosose airburst or ground burst. Then you can virtually “detonate” the warhead and see the fireball radius, radiation radius, airblast radius and thermal radiation radius. You can get a fallout pattern based on common prevailing winds and casualty estimates. The author has been interviewed on major news shows and the information is thought to be pretty accurate.
Try it. You know you want to…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Try it. You know you want to…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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edwest211
Guest
I definitely don’t want to. I was there. I knew my odds of survival were zero. One priority target was located near me. It was part of a list that was later published. The living would envy the dead. This is not a subject to be treated lightly.
J
jfz178
Guest
I hear you. I was nuclear delivery crew and we knew it would be a mission we weren’t coming back from. But I think people are better off with facts than emotions. If you don’t fully accept reality, in detail, you can’t improve upon it. Most of the posts on these nuclear threads are emotional, even when there is an attempt at “logic.” I don’t see a lot of people on these threads with the cold hard facts. I am just pointing out that the facts are available.
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