Supporting the Pope

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so if you know it is catholic why did you say
Rubee said:
Do you perhaps confuse this forum with Catholicism?
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catholic is catholicism. this forum is about catholicism.

did you realise we are all the priesthood of believers, we are all baptised into the priesthood. But there is a difference between laity and clergy, its called consecration
 
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He is Peter and the Gate of Hell will not prevail against the Church of Jesus Christ. For that I love and support the Pope. It is his prerogative whether to discuss about the scandal or not. If it is between man and God, so be it.
 
It is Catholics job to support the Pope. I have supported all the Popes of my lifetime and imagine I will always do so.
 
It sounds like the pope could commit murder and the proper response according to some would be ‘only God can judge the pope, he is above our criticism.’

The truth is that the pope is a man, no matter what his title, so he is neither sinless nor above criticism. If he commits a crime, covers up a crime, or shows indifference there is no obligation for the faithful to show deference and pretend it didn’t happen.

He has a responsibility to explain himself, because he is responsible for the Church. Just like a man can’t beat his wife and stand above criticism - even from his children - neither can the pope act negligently and stand above criticism.
 
Committing murder and beating your wife are intentional crimes, punishable by a criminal code.

“Acting negligently” is not an intentional crime. It is generally punishable by the civil law of negligence rather than the criminal code, because it is not a crime. So your comparisons are inapposite.

So far I have seen no good evidence that the Pope has even acted negligently. I have seen and heard a lot of hearsay mostly coming from one cardinal who was demoted by the Pope and may fall in the category of “disgruntled employee.”
 
Tis_Bearself said:
“Acting negligently” is not an intentional crime.
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I’m not a lawyer, but negligent homicide is a crime, not a civil offense. It is also a sin, “in what I have done and what I have failed to do…”
 
“Negligent homicide” is considered gross negligence, which is a narrow and special category of negligence (also including reckless behavior) that is so bad it may be subject to criminal penalties.
Ordinary negligence, which is the vast majority of negligence, is not under the criminal code.
What qualifies as “gross negligence” is often jurisdiction-specific.
Edited to add, some states do not use the words “negligent homicide” but instead would call such a death “involuntary manslaughter”.
We’re getting a bit deep in the legal weeds here.
 
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Agreed. There is a difference between simple negligence and gross negilence.
 
Babaganoush said:
It sounds like the pope could commit murder and the proper response according to some would be ‘only God can judge the pope, he is above our criticism.’
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the correct response if anyone commits murder is only God can judge us.
Jesus taught us that.
God is our final judge.
 
St. Catherine rebuked the pope. Cardinal O’Malley did just this year because of Pope Francis’s response to the Chilean victims. It is our duty as Christians to call out behaviors that cause harm to individuals or to the Church as a whole.
 
Supporting the pope is good, but it has its place. If the pope says “Jesus is a watermelon!”, someone who criticizes him shouldn’t be labeled an “enemy” and it is not the duty of all catholics to agree with him.

What if the pope turned out to have abused someone himself? Would we just trust him and not look into it?

These are all hypothetical scenarios, of course, but they do show some of the complexities on how we should see the papacy.
 
It’s mind boggling but it appears that some people think being a vicar= being Christ. All Bishops are vicars of Christ. That does not mean our PRIMARY role is to support them. That’s plain nonsense. Our primary role is to serve Christ. That’s why we are called Christians. It is amazing that this has to be a long drawn out debate. Our chief/primary duty is to God. The no. 1, basic commandment. That should not be a debate among any Christian peoples, or even any monotheistic peoples for that matter. Our duty to support our Bishops, including the top one, the Bishop of Rome, is conditional. Our duty to Christ and his father never is.
 
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The bishop is not the Pope’s officer for crying out loud! He is Christ’s officer, just like the Pope is Christ’s officer! What kind of ecclesiology teaches that the bishops are the pope’s officers? Why do you think the popes refer to them as “brother bishops”? The church’s King is Christ, not the pope. The pope speaks as a vicar above other vicars, but these other vicars are not HIS vicars-- They are in their own right vicars of Christ. They serve the same King. Please let us go back and read about the church before we start acting as if bishops get their offices and even their basic right to stand for the truth and speak it from the papacy. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes one think Orthodox criticisms of the Latin church’s excesses regarding the papacy are right on target.
 
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got some stats to back that up or is it just your opinion
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I have eyes and the ability to read English.🙂
exactly, you got it now!
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That the pope is an officer too? That was never in question. I’m glad we are in agreement about that and can stop this nonsense about having our primary role being to support an officer. It was very demeaning, so I’m glad you’re off that wagon.
 
google the role of the POPE

Jesus Christ appointed Peter and his successors as shepherds, that is: persons looking after people and caring for them (John 21,15-17). The Pope is therefore first and foremost the Supreme Pastor . That means that he represents Christ’s love and concern for every single individual. That is why the Pope’s priority lies in getting to know people, understanding how they live, listening to their interests and sharing their sufferings and their joys.
The Pope is also the Unifier of the People of God . Because of the international character of the Church, this will create many demands. The good of the world-wide Church and the autonomy of local Churches need to be balanced. That is why the Pope should guide and inspire the Central Synod of Bishops so that it can efficiently work out agreements and general Church policies. The Pope needs extensive secretarial facilities to communicate effectively with the many local Church leaders. The Pope will also need to build bridges with leaders of other Christian denominations and leaders of Sister Churches.

Handing on Jesus’ message that God is Love and planting this message in contemporary soil is a major task of the Church in each epoch of history. The Pope plays a crucial role in this as the Prime Witness to Faith . This includes both preaching [= announcing the message to non-Christians] and teaching [= explaining an element of Christ’s message in today’s context]. On very rare occasions the Pope is the main exponent of the infallible understanding of faith [=inerrancy] that is carried by the whole people of God. The Pope can only do so after listening to the People of God and discerning the faith they carry in their hearts.
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Wonderful. Now google the dictionary for the meaning of the word “primary” 🙂
 
Thats good to know. It would also be good to know how that is our primary role seeing as that’s the actual dispute here, not whether we should support the pope. 🙂
 
our primary role is supporting the Prime witness to faith.
As the body of the church
whats your argument against supporting the prime witness to faith…

(this ought to be good)

Jesus set it up this way.

support your shepherd, go where he leads. answer his call.
 
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