Supporting the Pope

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Genesis315 said:
Various reputable Italian newspapers reported on it at the time, and it made its way into English speaking papers as well:

Report: Pope resigned in wake of gay priest scandal
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What do you mean by “reputable”? the Secular media? How can you measure their accuracy? USA Today is most definitely not reputable.

Pope Benedict was well into his 80s. That is sufficient reason for anyone to retire. But it does not sell newspapers.
 
“wizard of Oz”

I won’t say anything else.
 
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that says it all, rejecting a vegemite sandwich and a cup of milo! the shock!
 
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Lol. Rejecting words on an internet board about virtual sandwiches, eh? I’d rather just have the truth, as I requested, thanks ma’am. 😉
 
ACrosSticks said:
Do you support all those Popes of the past, and all their actions, theology and decisions? yes or no “sister”. be plain speaking.
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Well, I don’t support all their actions. I don’t even support all my actions. But I do trust the magisterium theological decisions. This includes the decision to have a New Testament, and decisions to include this tiny number of books, and no more.

I support the Magisterium decisions to exclude the great majority of proposed scriptures, whether it be ancient Gnostics’ books, the Book of Mormon, or the New New Testament, which some liberal Protestants are now citing.

You cite Romans 13, as if it were communicated to us as somehow authoritative. I agree it is, inspired by God, but who communicated that theology to US? In effect, you support the Magisterium without realizing it.
 
Tradition and the continuity of the Church and it’s doctrine are necessary. The Bible can’t stand on its own.
 
It certainly sounds as if the Holy Father is getting down to business. This is the time when he needs our prayers the most.
 
“A New New Testament”, 2013, is the latest alternative to the Magisterium’s 27 book canon. It was developed by liberal scholars, who regard the Magisterium canon as too restrictive, sexist, etc. I think only relatively few congregations ha ve adopted it so far in church services or catechetics.

Without a Magisterium, who’s to say their “added” books are not inspired?
This is in response to a poster who questioned the Pope’ s theology authority.
 
OP here … I didn’t mean our primary role in the sense of our entire lives and purpose, but our primary role with respect to the Pope.

I support every Pope. If Alexander VI were Pope, I’d support him. And if he committed any sins, I of course would not support the sin. But I would not oppose the person or office of any Pope.
 
If you want peace work for justice.
- Pope Paul VI

It is not wrong to push for justice. It is not wrong to ask for someone to stop sinning and to make amends for sins committed. It is much worse to allow someone to keep on doing wrong because it damaged their soul along with hurting other. Mercy without justice is false mercy. False mercy does not come from God.
 
Jerome7 said:
OP here … I didn’t mean our primary role in the sense of our entire lives and purpose, but our primary role with respect to the Pope.

I support every Pope. If Alexander VI were Pope, I’d support him. And if he committed any sins, I of course would not support the sin. But I would not oppose the person or office of any Pope.
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Sometimes support means confrontation in order to push for better behavior and leadership. St. Paul supported St. Peter by confronting him and pushing him to be a better representative of Christ. Pray for the Pope, and encourage his good actions, but also bring a mirror to his failings when it is the just and righteous thing to do.

To simply say “but he is a good man, a good Pope” when he is failing in his role as “Papa” (and obviously this is an assessment that will vary from person to person) is not supporting the Pope, it is undermining him in his work.
 
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Ghosty1981 said:
Sometimes support means confrontation in order to push for better behavior and leadership. St. Paul supported St. Peter by confronting him and pushing him to be a better representative of Christ. Pray for the Pope, and encourage his good actions, but also bring a mirror to his failings when it is the just and righteous thing to do.
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The problem with this approach is it requires us to put ourselves above the Pope, to judge his words and deeds. Then he can no longer teach and correct us, if we will only accept teaching and correction when we think he is right. Paul gave Peter a theological argument; that is all we can do.
 
My kindergarten students will call me out if they notice something I am doing that isn’t correct. For instance, the rule is no one can eat or drink in the classroom unless it is snack time. If they notice me eating or drinking (suffering from morning sickness at the moment), they mention it quickly. It does not mean they are above me. They know I am “the boss” and it doesn’t diminish that in their eyes. I am glad they are able to stand up for what they know is the right thing to do, and accept my explainations if they are necessary. But see, when they call me out, I either give the needed reasons, or I acknowledge they are right and change what I do.
 
Jerome7 said:
The problem with this approach is it requires us to put ourselves above the Pope, to judge his words and deeds.
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There is nothing at all that says we can’t speak out on a Pope’s words and deeds. We can’t pass canonical judgement on a Pope, but it is absurd to think we can’t can’t see and correct sin and error. The Pope is not impeccable, and is just as subject to human failings as the rest of us. Don’t confuse a canonical and magisterial limitation, which is what “not judging the Pope” refers to, with a moral one.

St. Paul did not offer a theological argument to St. Peter, but rather pointed out that he was a hypocrite and set a bad example for the flock; St. Catherine of Sienna did something similar. Those were call-outs of personal failings, not theological debates.
 
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I will add to your excellent point, we should be very, very cautious of comparing ourselves to St Paul, who was an apostle and had direct divine revelation from Jesus. Indeed, it seems a Bishop, as a successor to the apostles, could use St Paul as an example, but not the rest of us.
 
Yep, Vatican II was careful to clarify this to avoid misinterpretations of Vatican I. It is, in fact, heretical to say that the bishops are vicars of the Pope rather than of Christ himself. (Exempting, of course, those bishops who hold bishops as literal vicars of the Pope, such as Nuncios… but even then, by virtue of their orders, they are vicars of Christ in their own right). The Bishop of Rome has authority over other bishops, but they are not by any means merely his vicars.

Christ gave special authority to St Peter, but he also directly gave authority to the other 11… they didn’t receive their authority as a mere delegation of St Peter’s special authority.
 
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