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ellipsis2
Guest
I was not alluding to birtherism. I was noticing how you tend to explain so many of estesbob’s statements. It’s not necessary since he is clearly articulate.
Supreme Court strikes down key provisions, but not all, of Arizona immigration law
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ellipsis2
Guest
You are giving your age away. Although few could argue your point.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Missing the point. The fact that such do indeed filter in is the issue. I really do not think this thread is about Law Abiding people, now is it?
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rlg94086
Guest
Oh, okay.
So, my
was “explaining estesbob’s statement,” and you were commenting on that by posting “figures.” :whacky:
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Nimzovik
Guest
No. However, one unchallenged (by those other than me) post of such a rather distasteful generalization, sets an atmosphere of the thread.
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je333
Guest
such as this post:
I have no love for Republicans* in general*. However, at this point, I will vote for most of them (pro -Life ones.) The democrats, as I heard on the Catholic Radio channel, is the “Party of Death” IMHO, at this juncture.
They talk about the War on Women by Republicans, but ignore their very own War on Life and War on Freedoms and War on Religion.
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lerapt78
Guest
Hi Tigg, I’m a little late joining in here, but I’d like to hear what you think the reasons are.
Hi je333. If I may ask, what makes you say this?
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je333
Guest
Hello!
Based on the statistics below and personal encounters in school, past employment at the Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS), TSA and Homeland Security and friends and relatives.
2006 The Advocates for Human Rights.
UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS INCLUDE A DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE.
Presently, there are approximately 11-12 million undocumented people in the U.S.
They include asylum seekers fleeing persecution, students who overstayed their visa terms, workers who could not get a visa, and family members who came to join their loved ones. The following statistics describe the undocumented population:
• Approximately 55% came without permission and 45% overstayed visas.
• 1.8 million are children. 1.3 million are enrolled in K-12 but only 5% of them go on to attend college.
• 57% came from Mexico, 23% came from the rest of Latin America, 10% came from Asia, 5% came from Europe and Canada, and 5% came from other areas.
• 60% arrived before the year 2000; 40% arrived between 2000-2006.
• Undocumented men have a 96% labor force participation rate.
This rate exceeds that of legal immigrants and U.S. citizens, suggesting very high self-sufficiency among undocumented men. “Undocumented men are younger and less likely to be disabled, retired, or in school.”
• Unauthorized immigrants represent 5% of the U.S. labor force.
• 0% of 9/11 terrorist attackers arrived without authorization.
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lerapt78
Guest
Thank you.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
je333, two statements of yours are contradictory, and at least one of those statements contradicts the facts.
Most undocumented adults are not what the U.S. considers “educated.” Not only are the vast majority of them not college educated, they are also mostly not high-school-completed. Most of them have anywhere from a 3rd grade to a 6th grade education, with a smaller percentage having completed middle school.
They are usually skilled in one or more trades, and they are absolutely willing to work, and industriously. However, the downside is that they arrive here without a realistic picture of what the 21st century cost of living is in the First World, and without time to close the gap between their previously acquired education and an industrialized, technologically sophisticated marketplace, which has increasing demands for high-level skills and fewer demands for low-level skills. (They are far too busy simply trying to survive to be able to also improve themselves to meet that demand) And learning a language (a key to economic opportunity in someone else’s country) takes time.
Increasingly, in my region, I am seeing illegal immigrants marginalized economically – not socially or in any other way. This is a real change from a generation ago, when it was more possible to overcome those gaps within about 10 years of arrival. The older pattern is simply not working the way it used to, as it is dated for a different economic reality.
Most undocumented adults are not what the U.S. considers “educated.” Not only are the vast majority of them not college educated, they are also mostly not high-school-completed. Most of them have anywhere from a 3rd grade to a 6th grade education, with a smaller percentage having completed middle school.
They are usually skilled in one or more trades, and they are absolutely willing to work, and industriously. However, the downside is that they arrive here without a realistic picture of what the 21st century cost of living is in the First World, and without time to close the gap between their previously acquired education and an industrialized, technologically sophisticated marketplace, which has increasing demands for high-level skills and fewer demands for low-level skills. (They are far too busy simply trying to survive to be able to also improve themselves to meet that demand) And learning a language (a key to economic opportunity in someone else’s country) takes time.
Increasingly, in my region, I am seeing illegal immigrants marginalized economically – not socially or in any other way. This is a real change from a generation ago, when it was more possible to overcome those gaps within about 10 years of arrival. The older pattern is simply not working the way it used to, as it is dated for a different economic reality.
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je333
Guest
This is why there are Human Rights Advocay Groups that help the 12 million, more or less, undocumented immigrants find access to get amnesty, charitable organizations and fight on their behalf to change laws that help them transition better instead of being alienated. With President Obama’s recent immigration reform, it is a good stepping stone and a life changing chance for the young undocumented immigrants to reach for their dreams since they are more likey to succeed. Religious leaders support President’s Obama’s stance on immigration reform and let’s join them and pray for the graces they need in their quest to succeed and to have a better life.
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Nimzovik
Guest
You think this a moral equivalencey -eh?
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Nimzovik
Guest
Bold Lettering Mine:
Oh there it is. The classic alteration/switching of terms employed. Undocumented immigrants as opposed to illegal immigrants. Illegal in the sense that they supercede those that wish to come here legally. (Those with character in the sense that they actually* want* to follow our laws!)** Illegals** in the sense they they knowingly break our Laws. Illegal in the sense that they do not go through the citizenship process in that they do not even have to pass a fundamental test in civics to understand how wonderful citizenship is!
My wife came from England. Over the years we paid approx. 10, Dollars in Lawyers fees etc. to get her to be a citizen. She became a citizen because she wanted to vote in this great country.
Why should anyone else** not** have to pay? What makes them so special? Why do Illegals get preferential treatment? Why do they not pay **annual **taxes? I do! Why do they not get drafted in the event of a major war (as in WWII) Citizens do! Why do they get to get sent home after committing a crime, visit their relatives, only to come back illegally and do it again? Why? When a citizen commits a crime they go to Jail! Why do they get to flood our helath care system to the extent that it raises the prices of my health care that I pay for? Now we got Obama care! Wheeeee! Now we have the HHS Mandate! Double Whee! Why do they get to take the jobs away from our teenagers and our own citizens? I did farm labor as a teen. Kept me from joining any gangs! I enjoyed the money too!
Should we talk about the gang banger elemet? The drug smuggling? The human traffiking? The rampant Political rallies to pressure society to favor *them? *
Then there is* La Raza.* Which translates to* ‘The Race’* Just how inclusionary is that term? See here:
nationalreview.com/articles/224980/la-raza-facts/michelle-malkin
and here
groups.google.com/group/alt.politics/browse_thread/thread/928850e128a0d7a3/f140074e167d479c?lnk=raot
Let’s ask Arizona** citizens** about these factors.
Oh. Yeah. I forgot. The Democrats want to pass the Motor Voter bill so they can get votes!
Let’s call it what it** is** shall we? They are Illegals. They have committed a crime.
That is what** illegal** means.
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Nimzovik
Guest
That* said*- are there good people that have fled a distressing situation in there home county that are illegal? Yes.
The answer is to get the path to legitimate citizenship working. Not Amnesty. Not the Motor Voter Bill. Let us not forget the Terrorists that were here illegally of 9/11 infamy.
Honest people will work to get their citizenship via taking the citizenship test. Via being on record as having a clean record. Via demonmstrating consistent excellent comporment during a trial period.
This is what, IMHO, is requisite.
The answer is to get the path to legitimate citizenship working. Not Amnesty. Not the Motor Voter Bill. Let us not forget the Terrorists that were here illegally of 9/11 infamy.
Honest people will work to get their citizenship via taking the citizenship test. Via being on record as having a clean record. Via demonmstrating consistent excellent comporment during a trial period.
This is what, IMHO, is requisite.
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je333
Guest
Well, I am glad you are able to pick up my preferential choice of word to describe them.
Good for her!
We live in a world where some people are blessed with abundance and we have much to be thankful for. However, many are strickened with extreme poverty, some have gone thru persecution and are seeking asylum, some are refugees. If you think that helping those who are in need makes them special and are getting preferential treatment, then, perhaps, you are correct. Yes, they are PEOPLE, in need of immediate assistance.
Would you like to be in there shoes so that you can feel the hardship they have gone thru and be treated specially? 
Good for you. I didn’t think you are illegal, are you?
Amnesty or change immigration laws regarding undocumented immigrants
I have never heard of such cases but don’t deny that things like these happen. I can only tell you on the cases that I encountered who have been deported, fixed all their papers, came back and are now contributing to our society, working industriously with multiple jobs! But I would like to emphasize that deporting would cost us a lot. It would be better that those who are already here can fix their papers here as most of them are already contributing to our society.
Yes, when a citizen commits a crime, depending on the severity of the crime, he/she should go to jail. Undocumented immigrants who face deporation serve time in jail!
Are you sure that undocumented immigrants without the proper IDs and SSN can get medical benefits from public health care system?
:hug1:No they are not taking away jobs from teenagers and our citizens. How many teenagers do you know would want to work at farms? There are percentage of undocumented immigrants who are professionals and skilled workers and it would be sad and unproductive to make them obsolete.
Oh dear, lord, here it is prejudices seeping out. I am afraid you would go to the extreme. :tsktsk:
This is a human right and is protected in the constitution.
Wow! You have issues with Hispanics! Why don’t you befriend one and learn from them. I am not even Hispanic and I can pretty much feel that some of your comments are racist in nature.
I knew from the beginning that this is where it’s going to lead which is why I was apprehensive in calling them “illegal” because the word implies crime and if it’s a crime then they are criminals. Isn’t that what you are implying?Let’s ask Arizona** citizens** about these factors.
Oh. Yeah. I forgot. The Democrats want to pass the Motor Voter bill so they can get votes!
Let’s call it what it** is** shall we? They are Illegals. They have committed a crime.
That is what** illegal** means.
Based on your post, your issues go beyond the questions of immigration legality. You have issues with a particular group of people in regards to race. I will pray for you but you also need to pray to God to give you the grace you need to be compassionate to those who are in need, to those who look different from you. God Bless!
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je333
Guest
The terrorists entered the country LEGALLY.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Some perhaps. Certainly not all. Also. they did not renew there Visas right? This makes them illegal yes?
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Nimzovik
Guest
Nimzovik Responds in Bold: Some face Icons deleted to meet posting requirements.
Good for you. I didn’t think you are illegal, are you?
Not cogent to the discussion.
Amnesty or change immigration laws regarding undocumented immigrants
I have never heard of such cases but don’t deny that things like these happen. I can only tell you on the cases that I encountered who have been deported, fixed all their papers, came back and are now contributing to our society, working industriously with multiple jobs! But I would like to emphasize that deporting would cost us a lot. It would be better that those who are already here can fix their papers here as most of them are already contributing to our society.
Is it those that are good, Law abiding people we are addressing here? I do not think so.
Yes, when a citizen commits a crime, depending on the severity of the crime, he/she should go to jail. Undocumented immigrants who face deporation serve time in jail!
Equivalently?
Are you sure that undocumented immigrants without the proper IDs and SSN can get medical benefits from public health care system?
Yes. It is called the Emergency Room at any Hospital. Hoppitals can not refuse someone in need of care. Go to the UCLA ER and observe the process. It will be an education for you.
No they are not taking away jobs from teenagers and our citizens. How many teenagers do you know would want to work at farms? There are percentage of undocumented immigrants who are professionals and skilled workers and it would be sad and unproductive to make them obsolete.
I reiterate. Get the ‘undocumented’ documented. I reiterate. I did! My home town was a farming community. Teenagers worked on the farms during the summers routinely.
Oh dear, lord, here it is prejudices seeping out. I am afraid you would go to the extreme. :tsktsk:
Prejudices? Think again. Simply because you call me prejudiced does not equate to fact.
This is a human right and is protected in the constitution.
Wow! You have issues with Hispanics! Why don’t you befriend one and learn from them. I am not even Hispanic and I can pretty much feel that some of your comments are racist in nature.
Prejudices against hispanics? Oh Please! That is a classic! The old trick -“If you do not agree with me - you are prejudiced” Give me a break.
I knew from the beginning that this is where it’s going to lead which is why I was apprehensive in calling them “illegal” because the word implies crime and if it’s a crime then they are criminals. Isn’t that what you are implying?
Based on your post, your issues go beyond the questions of immigration legality. You have issues with a particular group of people in regards to race. I will pray for you but you also need to pray to God to give you the grace you need to be compassionate to those who are in need, to those who look different from you. God Bless!
**Riddle me this: If a person is here Illegally, by definition - has not a crime been committed? **
**This is not prejudice. This is deductive reasoning. **
Think again. Also I would appreciate you not indiscriminatingly labeling people for your whatever reasons of doing so. I shall pray for you.
**Nooooooooo… Amnesty simply rewards bad behavior, (Law Breaking) and encourages future Law Breaking. Plus there is no education in terms of the reponsibilities of citizenship with amnesty.Well, I am glad you are able to pick up my preferential choice of word to describe them.
Able? Nice implied insult. Typical.
Good for her!
Indeed.
We live in a world where some people are blessed with abundance and we have much to be thankful for. However, many are strickened with extreme poverty, some have gone thru persecution and are seeking asylum, some are refugees. If you think that helping those who are in need makes them special and are getting preferential treatment, then, perhaps, you are correct. Yes, they are PEOPLE, in need of immediate assistance. Would you like to be in there shoes so that you can feel the hardship they have gone thru and be treated specially?
Well! That is a far cry form the woes of Illegal immigration from what I addressed isn’t it? Nice deliberate smoke screening of the issues. If you can see from my previous post, I suggested the concept of improving the citizenship process! This is the answer! Not, allowing those *of *the millions in the country illegally, that have demonstrated mal intent.What is soooooooo hard to grasp here?
Which is why if we give them amnesty they would be able to transition better and able to work and pay taxes.
Good for you. I didn’t think you are illegal, are you?
Not cogent to the discussion.
Amnesty or change immigration laws regarding undocumented immigrants
I have never heard of such cases but don’t deny that things like these happen. I can only tell you on the cases that I encountered who have been deported, fixed all their papers, came back and are now contributing to our society, working industriously with multiple jobs! But I would like to emphasize that deporting would cost us a lot. It would be better that those who are already here can fix their papers here as most of them are already contributing to our society.
Is it those that are good, Law abiding people we are addressing here? I do not think so.
Yes, when a citizen commits a crime, depending on the severity of the crime, he/she should go to jail. Undocumented immigrants who face deporation serve time in jail!
Equivalently?
Are you sure that undocumented immigrants without the proper IDs and SSN can get medical benefits from public health care system?
Yes. It is called the Emergency Room at any Hospital. Hoppitals can not refuse someone in need of care. Go to the UCLA ER and observe the process. It will be an education for you.
No they are not taking away jobs from teenagers and our citizens. How many teenagers do you know would want to work at farms? There are percentage of undocumented immigrants who are professionals and skilled workers and it would be sad and unproductive to make them obsolete.
I reiterate. Get the ‘undocumented’ documented. I reiterate. I did! My home town was a farming community. Teenagers worked on the farms during the summers routinely.
Oh dear, lord, here it is prejudices seeping out. I am afraid you would go to the extreme. :tsktsk:
Prejudices? Think again. Simply because you call me prejudiced does not equate to fact.
This is a human right and is protected in the constitution.
Wow! You have issues with Hispanics! Why don’t you befriend one and learn from them. I am not even Hispanic and I can pretty much feel that some of your comments are racist in nature.
Prejudices against hispanics?
Oh Please! That is a classic! The old trick -“If you do not agree with me - you are prejudiced” Give me a break.I knew from the beginning that this is where it’s going to lead which is why I was apprehensive in calling them “illegal” because the word implies crime and if it’s a crime then they are criminals. Isn’t that what you are implying?
Based on your post, your issues go beyond the questions of immigration legality. You have issues with a particular group of people in regards to race. I will pray for you but you also need to pray to God to give you the grace you need to be compassionate to those who are in need, to those who look different from you. God Bless!
**Riddle me this: If a person is here Illegally, by definition - has not a crime been committed? **
**This is not prejudice. This is deductive reasoning. **
Think again. Also I would appreciate you not indiscriminatingly labeling people for your whatever reasons of doing so. I shall pray for you.
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Maxirad
Guest
In this video, Michael Voris weighs in on the situation.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Hmmmmmmmmmmm… very interesting. Thanks for the link.
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