Surrendered Wife, anyone?

[TheGoodLife]

Judi, thanks for clearing that up for me. Myself, I don’t have a thing against Protestant authors. To tell you the truth, I don’t even look into the religious beliefs of authors (unless it’s posted in bright orange letters on the front of the book, lol). I just like interesting reading material.

 

[JudiTherese]

I have never looked at the religious affiliation of authors. I go into my local Christian bookstore and select a book to help me grow in regards to the issue at hand. I have never had an incident where the book had anything anti-Catholic. At all.

 

[BlestOne]

I have never looked at the religious affiliation of authors. I go into my local Christian bookstore and select a book to help me grow in regards to the issue at hand. I have never had an incident where the book had anything anti-Catholic. At all.

Then you have been most fortunate…

Honestly, since there are so many acceptable things in Protestant religions that there are not in Catholic in regards to marriages… it would be better to stick with Catholic authors that deal with these problems in a Catholic way. I am not saying the book is bad or evil or that Protestants are… but within a marriage, alot of the issues that come up are issues that can be specific to faith teachings… like submission, abortion, birth control, children, etc…

 

[JudiTherese]

Would you mind being more specific as to the differences? As a Catholic, it makes sense to me what is said in Eph 5:

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Wives and Husbands
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing** her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
**

The Protestant books regarding marriage have only supported this scripture. I see nothing wrong with that nor do I see where it differs with Catholic teachngs. Also, I haven’t seen birth control addressed in any of the books. Maybe in Marriage Prep books, but I have never read those as we received counseling and prep throught the Church.

I don’t know a single Christian Protestant who agrees with abortion and have never ever read a Christian book that supported it. Quite the opposite, actually.

And, I’m not sure where they could go wrong in terms of child rearing either. Raise your kids to love the Lord, respect others, be good people, consequence to actions, boundaries. What would a Catholic book have that is different.

I promise I am not trying to debate AT ALL. Just trying to understand.

 

[BlestOne]

JudiTherese,
Since your profile lists you as Catholic perhaps you have not seen alot of the subtle jabs at Catholics by many Protestants. It is more in the attitudes sometimes but sometimes it is blatant. For instance… Our teaching on divorce due to infidelity is that it is not just reason for divorce…many Protestants feel this is totally acceptable. Submission… This differs between the different denominations… some are much more literal about women being submissive… like telling their women what to wear, what length their hair can or can’t be, whether they can work… and much more. While other denominations pretend that verse doesn’t exist or is totally outdated. There is nothing outdated in the Bible… but this is where self interpretation leads. Abortion…I know plenty of Protestants that think this is ok as long as it’s legal…ABC…they actually think this is the smart thing to do and that they are being “responsible” by using ABC’s. The reason why I mentioned all these things in a thread about submission is that people don’t understand the whole nature of marriage and family…which does affect how we view the verse you quoted.

Look the whole point here is that unless you totally understand the Catholic view of marriage and family, you will never truly understand the Catholic interpretation of submission to our husbands and the whole family=kingdom of God thing. How could a Protestant that wasn’t taught to view it like that? And how could they understand the difference between a marriage and a sacramental marriage covenant?

 

[kage_ar]

Since Marriage is a Sacrament, I am going to put into practice marriage books written from the foundation of the truth of the Catholic Church.

If I had all the time in the world to read, I might read non-Catholic books on a Sacrament, in order to study the different persepctives, but, right now my reading time is limited.

If it is a cook book or fiction or how to build a house or American History, those things are NOT Sacraments so the faith of the author is not as important.

For Sacraments, I stick with Holy Mother Church

 

[Smber2c]

Then you have been most fortunate…

Honestly, since there are so many acceptable things in Protestant religions that there are not in Catholic in regards to marriages… it would be better to stick with Catholic authors that deal with these problems in a Catholic way. I am not saying the book is bad or evil or that Protestants are… but within a marriage, alot of the issues that come up are issues that can be specific to faith teachings… like submission, abortion, birth control, children, etc…

I’d agree with you all the way.

Marriage is a sacrament that will bind 2 people for the duration of their Earthly lives. I don’t know a protestant that doesn’t believe in divorce (and I know many protestants). Also, there is real grace in the sacrament that they deny.

Additionally there is a certain humility before others that the Catholic Church teaches in all her works, that all Protestant works deny. This humility is in understanding that God has appointed people and institutions to lead His faithful and that just because “I” interpret scripture to say x, y, or z; that doesn’t mean that I’m correct.

St. Ignatius said, “If I precieve something as white and the Church tells me that it is black then I believe it is black.” (well his line was to that effect) Protestants I’ve know call that dishonest, ignorant, and sinnful. I call it obedient, trusting, and humble…and Catholic.

 

[CCM08]

I don’t think I’d put a lot of stock into what evangelicals have to say about marriage, they get divorced more than atheists do. In high school I heard a lot about this type of think and basically what it came down to is “all marriages would be perfect if the wife followed the husband’s orders mindlessly.” I think one of the deepest flaws of sola Scriptura is the inability to separate an eternal Gospel or moral truth with a social instruction. Not everything St. Paul wrote regarding family structure to people in the first century Roman empire applies to people living in the 21st century. At the very least if applied it needs to be applied consistantly. If women have to follow orders then that means they are most certainly are not to work outside the home.

 

[JudiTherese]

Do you have any facts to back up the claim about Protestants and divorce?

What are your thoughts about the scripture I quoted from the Holy Bible? I would think that would have some credence in your opinion here. At least I would hope so. Every response seems to have glossed right over it.

 

[Smber2c]

#1 - Do you have any facts to back up the claim about Protestants and divorce?

#2 - What are your thoughts about the scripture I quoted from the Holy Bible? I would think that would have some credence in your opinion here. At least I would hope so. Every response seems to have glossed right over it.

#1 - I don’t deal in statistics, I deal in rash generalizations. No, I’m kidding. Though I honestly don’t have stat though, and it doesn’t really worry me much. The fact the Protestant teaching says divorce is an acceptable action (even a solution to marriage) is concern enough for me on where I get marriage advice.

1. I’m not sure who you are asking about the Scripture, I guess everyone.
   I’m of course fully in agreement with the scripture you provided.
   A woman should submit to her husband, and in doing each spouse should be deeply committed to loving and serving the other.

I agree that the husband is the head of the wife and I guess this does challenge a few things that have been said above:
1st - one’s husband is stupid so why listen.
2nd - this house works better with the wife in charge.
I don’t think these people have suffered misinformation and have settled without realizing it. A man who is not smart enough to run a home or who is not able to lead his wife had no place as husband or father. They should grow up and learn these skills before getting married. But kids are handicapped today by a culture of excess and don’t learn the skills they should.

So, likely many houses do work better with mom in charge but likely b/c dad isn’t who he should be or at least isn’t yet.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

If you use that link at the upper third of your screen marked “Search” you will find this book has been discussed to death. My take: It is not Catholic, it is simplistic, and it does contradict some Church teaching on mutual self-giving in the Sacrament of Marriage. My husband thinks it’s just a crackpot book, but he’s a philosophy and ethics professor.

 

[JudiTherese]

Ok, my point is that the fact that the author is NOT Catholic does not make it a bad choice for a book. If she is basing her teaching on scripture, how can she go wrong?

Where is this bias coming from? I am simply stunned and have been so bothered by this today.

 

[CCM08]

Do you have any facts to back up the claim about Protestants and divorce?

Divorce rates are highest in the so called “Bible belt” where the largest percentage of evangelical’s live. Unlike every other religious group being a practicing evangelical does not lower the mean average divorce rate.

What are your thoughts about the scripture I quoted from the Holy Bible? I would think that would have some credence in your opinion here. At least I would hope so. Every response seems to have glossed right over it.

The Bible is not the sole key of truth, and I do not believe that every instruction St. Paul happen to jot down 2,000 years ago in a vastly different world applies today. It’s merely a shame some protestants don’t understand how much more important the Gospels are than the epistles.

 

[kage_ar]

Ok, my point is that the fact that the author is NOT Catholic does not make it a bad choice for a book. If she is basing her teaching on scripture, how can she go wrong?

Where is this bias coming from? I am simply stunned and have been so bothered by this today.

Would you base your participation in the Sacrament of the Eucharist on a book written by a Baptist? They can base the teaching on Scripture.

Would you practice the Sacrament of Confession based on the teachings of an Assembly of God book?

Marriage is a Sacrament, it must first and foremost be understood and practiced by Catholics from the teachings of the Catholic Church. Scripture ALONE is not enough to base instruction on such a holy Sacrament of Marriage - remember, God gave the Church, who uses both Scripture and Tradition.

I promise, if you read the Bishop Fulton J Sheen’s “Three to Get Married” and JPII’s “Theology of the Body” and then the Protestant books, the difference will stun you.

 

[JudiTherese]

Ok, then give me some Biblical references to this discussion about husbands and wives roles other than the one I mentioned.

Again, my question is why the bias against those who are Protestant?

As far as the divorce rate, there isn’t a huge difference from the research I have found:

Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate) % who have been divorced
Non-denominational (small conservative groups; independents) 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

Also, I checked the book out at the library today and referenced divorce. The only reason she cites for acceptable divorce are physical abuse, or addiction. She actually states that most marriages can be repaired if both parties keep that as the common goal and focus. All transgressions can be overcome.

 

[JudiTherese]

Actually, I would and I have read books by Protestants about marriage that were based on scripture. Nothing contradicted the teachings of the Catholic church.

I wouldn’t read a book about the Eucharist written by a Protestant, but I also have never seen one that was written.

Again, I am talking about books that deal with priciples of living. I am a professional in the business community and when I look for sales/business books, I always look at the Christian bookstore first. I try to live my life the way Jesus would want me to-always. And reading books about how to be more patient, kind, have a deeper spiritual life, better Bible study practices, devotionals,etc helps. A lot. I don’t care who writes them as long as they are Biblically based.

 

[laariii]

i thought the message of this book was simple,
" Don’t be a control freak."
No wonder this woman had problems, she was trying to organise & control everything.

Alot of Protestant books are Anti-Catholic. I grew up Pentacostal & the church book store is full of all sorts of crazy stuff.

 

[CCM08]

The roles depend on the marriage. When St. Paul was writting women didn’t work outside the home. He probably wouldn’t have approved of the arrangment. Today they do, and it’s not all that uncommon to have a household where mom is the primary bread winner. As Jesus says in the Gospel, “Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with that which is my own?” A rhetorical question, as a clear matter of Jewish law it certainly is lawful. Even when mom isn’t the primary income earner in many homes mom is working and as such is entitled to a say in what happens. This is very much in contrast to the evangelical, “hand over your check and shut up while your husband pisses it away.”

To be quite blunt, there are a lot of men that would make stupid decisions with money and very much need their wives to make sure they don’t. A woman has a duty to herself and her children not to allow her husband to spend them into poverty. I see no reason why two mature people cannot cooperate in household decisions. If a man insists on having his own way then he is failing in his duty to “love his wife as Christ loves the Church” and in doing so would release the wife from any of St. Paul’s instructions. St. Paul was a very wise and righteous man, however every social instruction he penned to first cenutry Hellenistic Jews and Gentiles doesn’t apply today.

 

[johntkd]

ok I am not a gal but IMO there is only 1 ( one book worth reading in this entire world, thats the Bible the rest are all rubbish and I dont care what denomination writes it thinks it or does it rubbish

 

[LJN21]

Well just to be silly and completely open on this subject:

My husband told me a few weekends ago when discussing the whole “head of household” role:

“I married you so YOU would be the head of household. You pay the taxes, you run the show, you organize the house, you decide how to discipline the kids, you take care of me and tell me when I am out of line. This is WHY I married YOU. I don’t want the job!”



So I guess that pretty much states the roles in our personal household. Hey, it’s worked for ten years and three kids, why rock the boat? If I tried to force him to be “head of household” I may as well write my own book:

“How to Mess Up a Perfectly Good Marriage in Three Days!”


But seriously, I think I’ll stay away from books like this as I don’t want to fix what’s NOT broken. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut on my curiousity.

Well I think running the house hold is very different than being the head of the house hold

The husband isn’t always going to be the numbers person or the discipline person. It would be silly if the husband can’t budget to pay the bills I think the important part is both spouses being on the same page. It doesn’t mater who does what so long as there is agreement and harmony.

Your the CEO and he is the Owner or something