Susan Rice requested to unmask names of Trump transition officials, sources say

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dvdjs said:
Are you really making an argument from silence?
That is so funny.
But is the argument, that because of the silence there was no such unmasking, or that the silence is part of the media bias to protect Hillary and company?
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Of course the media bias, as usual. Its common knowledge now the media is trying to bring Trump down.
 
Michael68 said:
Of course the media bias, as usual. Its common knowledge now the media is trying to bring Trump down.
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I suppose that is true in some alt-reality. But on the issue polled here about Russian influence, the common knowledge at CAF follows the MSM.
 
dvdjs said:
I suppose that is true in some alt-reality. But on the issue polled here about Russian influence, the common knowledge at CAF follows the MSM.
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Why do you continnue to insist all this surveillance is not what Trump was alluding to? Remember the excuse was he was not being surveilled yet now we have all this evidence that Trump and his team were survielled by the Obama administration. How can you insist that is not what happened?
 
Michael68 said:
Why do you continnue to insist all this surveillance is not what Trump was alluding to? Remember the excuse was he was not being surveilled yet now we have all this evidence that Trump and his team were survielled by the Obama administration. How can you insist that is not what happened?
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Trump claimed that he was being surveilled in Trump tower in the lead up to the election.

If, as you yourself have said, it was the unmasking that made the otherwise incidental collection rise to the level of surveillance; that did not happen until after the election. I believe that Trump can distinguish “before” from “after”.

Whatever it was that he was talking about, it is not what Nunes was talking about (as Nunes himself has said), and it does not appear to be connected in any way with what Rice did, and by the sworn testimony of Comey, it is not connected to what the FBI is investigating.
 
Reuben_J said:
The answer to that seems to be academic now. Susan Rice was Obama’s NSA. It is safe to say that it is next to impossible for Obama not to know when Rice asked for the unmasking.

The implication for this is staggering but seeing that they are not holding office anymore, probably they would get away with it.
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It is my sense that Pres. Obama didn’t know what Rice was doing. He didn’t know what Lois Learner was doing in the IRS, either. In fact, he said there is nothing going on over there. AND he didn’t know what Hilary was doing. She was the most qualified woman or MAN to hold the highest office in the land… who the heck was running the country???
 
dvdjs said:
Trump claimed that he was being surveilled in Trump tower in the lead up to the election.

If, as you yourself have said, it was the unmasking that made the otherwise incidental collection rise to the level of surveillance; that did not happen until after the election. I believe that Trump can distinguish “before” from “after”.

Whatever it was that he was talking about, it is not what Nunes was talking about (as Nunes himself has said), and it does not appear to be connected in any way with what Rice did, and by the sworn testimony of Comey, it is not connected to what the FBI is investigating.
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I don’t think we know at this point that Trump was NOT surveiled in Trump Tower, but it hardly makes any difference if it was there or elsewhere, or only his subordinates or whatever. The fact of the matter is that some intelligence agency did surveillance on his people and quite possibly on him, both before the election and after. Furthermore, we know the American participants were identified to others down the food chain.

And whether it was the FBI (which seems not to be the case) or some other agency (which does) doesn’t matter either. The big questions are whether they were in fact surveilled and why.

The first is pretty clearly that they were. The second has the appearance of being political espionage if, as Nunes says and Schiff does not contradict, there was no foreign intelligence value in the known surveillance. If there was none, then why bother to “unmask” the American participants and why was there an effort to save and proliferate them?

But clarification might come later. Might point to a less ugly scenario, or a yet uglier one.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I don’t think we know at this point that Trump was NOT surveiled in Trump Tower, but it hardly makes any difference if it was there or elsewhere, or only his subordinates or whatever. The fact of the matter is that some intelligence agency did surveillance on his people and quite possibly on him, both before the election and after. Furthermore, we know the American participants were identified to others down the food chain.
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  1. It does matter, at lest for those who think the President should speak knowingly and not just throw out junk hoping something sticks.
  2. In reality we don’t know much of anything that you claimed: who are you claiming was surveilled before the election? after the election? Who was identified to others and what is this food chain?
The big questions are whether they were in fact surveilled and why.
The first is pretty clearly that they were. The second has the appearance of being political espionage if, as Nunes says and Schiff does not contradict, there was no foreign intelligence value in the known surveillance. If there was none, then why bother to “unmask” the American participants and why was there an effort to save and proliferate them?
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The answer to the first question has been leaked, but only in the context of incidental collection, and unmasking - with scant details of who, how many, and what was the nature of the collection and unmasking process. The second has scarcely been answered at all but the connection to ongoing counter-intelligence investigations has been a constant of the discussion.
 
dvdjs said:
  1. It does matter, at lest for those who think the President should speak knowingly and not just throw out junk hoping something sticks.
  2. In reality we don’t know much of anything that you claimed: who are you claiming was surveilled before the election? after the election? Who was identified to others and what is this food chain?
The answer to the first question has been leaked, but only in the context of incidental collection, and unmasking - with scant details of who, how many, and what was the nature of the collection and unmasking process. The second has scarcely been answered at all but the connection to ongoing counter-intelligence investigations has been a constant of the discussion.
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^ a voice of sound reason on the matter.
 
kat07 said:
The problem with Susan Rice “unmasking” and data mining classified intelligence reports is summed up well in this article.

nationalreview.com/article/446415/susan-rice-unmasking-trump-campaign-members-obama-administration-fbi-cia-nsa

"Unmasking is done by the FBI, CIA, NSA ( they are the agencies that generate and collect intelligence) using "minimization standards, and which James Comey described as “obsessive” in their determination to protect identities and privacy of US citizens, and as extremely “rare”.

Susan Rice was the NSA Adviser, she was NOT an investigator. She was a WH staff member, who are not generators or collectors of intelligence but only consumers of it.

If Susan Rice was unmasking Americans, it was not to fulfill an intelligence need based on American interests…"
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I am not really a Trump fan, but yes, this vindicates him 👍👍
 
dvdjs said:
Obstinate in that narrative, even when the true evidence is against you. Sad.
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Not necessarily. Susan Rice strikes me as a loyal soldier, willing to commit “political suicide” for her leader.

Just like Bannon would probably fall on his sword for Trump.

Not sure why you find that SO unbelievable. 🤷🤷
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Not necessarily. Susan Rice strikes me as a loyal soldier, willing to commit “political suicide” for her leader.

Just like Bannon would probably fall on his word for Trump.

Not sure why you find that SO unbelievable. 🤷🤷
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I don’t find that unbelievable. But that idea is irrelevant to the actual facts on the table.
 
dvdjs said:
I don’t find that unbelievable. But that idea is irrelevant to the actual facts on the table.
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Depends on how you interpret those “facts.” So far, you have shown nothing to me to indicate nothing “shifty” has gone on here. 🤷🤷
 
dvdjs said:
  1. It does matter, at lest for those who think the President should speak knowingly and not just throw out junk hoping something sticks.
  2. In reality we don’t know much of anything that you claimed: who are you claiming was surveilled before the election? after the election? Who was identified to others and what is this food chain?
The answer to the first question has been leaked, but only in the context of incidental collection, and unmasking - with scant details of who, how many, and what was the nature of the collection and unmasking process. The second has scarcely been answered at all but the connection to ongoing counter-intelligence investigations has been a constant of the discussion.
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There is no reason yet to conclude that Trump was not literally correct. Time will tell. But whether his and his subordinates’ calls were tapped in Trump Tower or in their homes or elsewhere, is a distinction without meaningful difference.

We don’t know yet who all was surveilled. Only those to whom the participants were unmasked know that yet. We only know that they were people on the Trump team in some manner.

But the Dems might get hoisted on their own petard before long. Their very proliferation of the information virtually guarantees it being leaked sooner or later; that likely being the purpose of the dissemination. Obama might have been too clever by half.
 
Doctrines of Demons in the later days. All of this being reported to low infoirmation veiwers by their Overlords.

With Lies, Disinformations, distortion fueling the flames to distract from Russiangate while making huge bundles of money from low information voters
**
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/04/03/anatomy-of-a-fake-scandal-ginned-up-by-right-wing-media-and-trump/**

Made up by Overlord liar, mysogyinst, Date Rape culturalist, Cheat on your wife is fine, non Christian immoral Mike Cernovich
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cernovich
"Who cares about breast cancer and rape? Not me."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/trolls-for-trump
Misogyny Gets You Laid** “How to Cheat on Your Girlfriend.” **

The sickening world of these vile,blowhards, shrills, bombastic carnival barkers should be warning to all Christians.

**
http://www.sltrib.com/home/5142341-155/story.html**
Demonic rantings of Mike Chernovich
 
Sy_Noe said:
It would likely be legal for Rice to request the unmasking— The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything.

Nothing uncovered lends credence to President Trump’s outlandish and unsupported claim that Obama ordered surveillance of him at Trump Tower prior to the election. Nor does the new story suggest any illegal behavior on Rice’s part. Many experts seem to think the story does not imply anything improper or unusual…
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In fact if one thinks about it, when Rice was asking for persons to be unmasked, that means she didn’t know who they were. I don’t know why that point isn’t being brought up.

However, it IS very important that all suspects who may have been involved in national security harms or criminal activities be unmasked at least by those in authority to do so, and then if enough evidence shows they did indeed do something wrong their names should be made public. We can’t just let people get by with things.

When you think about it the really bad criminals and killers are the rich high on the corporate ladders who cause more property loss, white collar and corporate crime, harms, and deaths than street criminals. I think the number is about 10 times more deaths and a vastly huge amount of financial/property harm more than street criminals cause.

If Susan Rice found out some people who were implicated in threats to national security or any other criminal activities, good for her.

I think the whole reason the Trump admin is causing this stir as if Susan Rice were the guilty one is because they know they are guilty and want to create a smokescreen to hide behind.
 
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