Sweden Moves to Ban Homeschooling for Religious or Philosophical Reasons

[mkingdomlvr]

That is your opinion. My state does not set levels of competency. Why do you presume that government involvement improves any situation? Your statement follows this logic: 1) spraining your ankle is bad, 2) a government law needs to be passed to keep people from spraining their ankles, 3) huge expenses follow as inspectors try to prevent “dangerous” activity, and 4) sports and other activities are banned (along with other silly consequences). In other words, the chill imposed on parents wanting to homeschool by “parental teaching standards” and the costs associated with monitoring homeschool standards far outweigh any benefits you perceive to increased oversight of homeschooling. What you propose leads to loss of liberty and freedom - especially for Catholics.

Your logic means that anything a parent wants to do to a child goes because the parent knows best. Government should NEVER intervene, even if it is to protect the child. I don’t think I have to spell out where that attitude leads.

What you propose leads to extreme danger to innocent children.

 

[mpi]

Your logic means that anything a parent wants to do to a child goes because the parent knows best. Government should NEVER intervene, even if it is to protect the child. I don’t think I have to spell out where that attitude leads.

What you propose leads to extreme danger to innocent children.

Our discussion is related to education. Don’t change channels.

Protection from Catholicism is not protection - it is indoctrination. I believe in protection from secularism for the child. That is my view.

I don’t think I have to spell out where your attitude leads.

 

[WillieWonka]

Who here thinks all parents have the right to keep their kids at home and out ouf public schools?

Who here thinks all parents have the right to raise their kids as illiterates if they choose?

Who here thinks these rights of parents trump kids’ legal right to an education?

 

[mpi]

Who here thinks all parents have the right to keep their kids at home and out ouf public schools?

Who here thinks all parents have the right to raise their kids as illiterates if they choose?

Who here thinks these rights of parents trump kids’ legal right to an education?

yes

yes

yes

 

[WillieWonka]

yes

yes

yes

I suspect this attitude on the part of some home schoolers is the reason Sweden is taking the action described in the article. The kids’ legal right to an education trumps the desires of some parents to impose religion and illiteracy on their kids. The kids need protection, and the state will protect them.

Anyone else here think a parent has a right to impose illiteracy on his kids? What do the home schoolers here think?

 

[Pug]

I’ve noticed two interesting claims from many home schoolers.

1. The public schools are terrible and don’t teach the kids well.
2. The illiterate graduates of these terrible schools are qualified to teach their own kids.

I think the public schools in various cases do not represent the best choice available for the education of a particular child. In some cases they are a bad choice. I do not believe each parent is qualified to teach every subject to their child. Many parents will need to seek aid if it is in their child’s interest to study a certain topic.

*Impose *illiteracy? That seems a little hot to touch. I do think parents ought to seek or provide education for their child that is in accord with the nature of the child. They ought to be able to refuse “education” that is not really so, or that is polluted with something horrific. I recall a scene from the movie Soldier (not a great movie) where children were made to watch dogs tear up a boar. If I had to accept this for my child in order to secure reading materials, I might elect to forgo those materials.

I have no idea how some people view what goes on in the public schools. Maybe they do see it as horrific, or maybe just as indoctrination in various falsehoods? I don’t think public schools provide well for children overall, and some children are lucky enough to have parents who can provide amply at home.

 

[LutheranDK]

Sorry. I don’t read blind links.

Ahh…pretty neat trick to avoid relating to the answer to your question, eh?

 

[WillieWonka]

Ahh…pretty neat trick to avoid relating to the answer to your question, eh?

Not at all. I expect people who comment to be capable of speaking for themsleves and expressing their own views. At that point, a link is useful if it expands upon the views expressed. When people don’t bother to speak for themselves, and simply paste in a link, I lose interest.

Are you capable of doing that? Can you speak for yourself? Do you have some argument or contribution you would like to make?

 

[WillieWonka]

Does mpi speak for the home schoolers here?

 

[Pug]

Does mpi speak for the home schoolers here?

Information: I definitely would home school, but I am childless.

It depends on what mpi means. I don’t know him/her well enough to know what he/she really means. I think in terms of parental duties, and the phrasing used in your three questions does not seem to reflect that same way of thinking. So there is somewhat of a gap of context, and it is stretched between three people.

Does a parent have a “right” over and against their child to deny the child what is needed for the child to grow and mature as they ought, as a moral, spiritual, physical, social, etc being? NO. Rather, the parent has a duty to provide for the child to grow as they ought. Where I live, one of the options a child might eventually have as a vocation is to become a priest. This will require literacy where I live. I am not well preparing my child to live out a future vocation if I voluntarily hobble them in some way, like by deliberately not teaching them to read as my goal. I’d just be creating a hurdle for them. But I doubt this is what mpi has in mind.

 

[CGDouglas]

I suspect this attitude on the part of some home schoolers is the reason Sweden is taking the action described in the article. The kids’ legal right to an education trumps the desires of some parents to impose religion and illiteracy on their kids. The kids need protection, and the state will protect them.

Anyone else here think a parent has a right to impose illiteracy on his kids? What do the home schoolers here think?

I don’t think I know one person in all honesty who doesn’t want their children to have a good education…

And it still saddens me that you seem to think homeschooling parents are somewhat, ‘all’ illiterate, despite the fact that they attain something like 37 points higher than public students?

I’d definitely want to homeschool my children if I ever have any, modern public schools seem to focus on an exam-passing culture rather than actual knowledge… It saddens me.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[Corki]

Does mpi speak for the home schoolers here?

Sounds good to me but let me give you a little more that three words.

yes

yes

yes

Who here thinks all parents have the right to keep their kids at home and out ouf public schools?

I do absolutely! In fact, I think parents have not just a right but a responsibility to ensure that their kids are in the best feasible educational environment rather than just accepting public school as the defacto choice. It should be considered as one of the choices among many, including homeschooling.

As Catholics, until a few decades ago, we were required to keep our kids out of public school if there was a Catholic school available.

Who here thinks all parents have the right to raise their kids as illiterates if they choose?

I think all parents have the right to raise their kids with knowledge in subject areas of their chosing. Now, if someone claimed they were homeschooling, but didn’t teach thier kids to read, they wouldn’t really be homeschooling. They would be lying and that’s wrong. But I think parents have the right to keep thier kids “illiterate” about some subjects or to chose when and how to introduce those subjects rather than follow a government timetable.

Who here thinks these rights of parents trump kids’ legal right to an education?

Kids are going to get educated one way or another. Short of locking them in the basement, that is. When parents rights conflict with the state’s interpretation of what the children should be taught, the presumption should go to the parents. There will be very rare cases where that presumption would be wrong but the overall benefit would be to the children by doing it that way.

 

[Ana]

Willie, I’m sorry, but the thread is about homeschooling being BANNED in Sweden for RELIGIOUS and PHILISOPHICAL reasons. I didn’t see anything in the article about illiterates, drunks or rapists. We know how you feel about rapists, drunkards and illiterates … but your last post referring to *imposing religion, *leads me to believe your real problem, is with those who are homeschooling in a way to maximize the passing on of fatih and morals, You don’t like that do you?

But since that happens to be the topic of this very thread, I would like to remind you that whether you are a parent or become one in the future, you will have every right to cover up, eliminate and attempt to destroy any infilitration of faith and morals into your child’s life. You can cement this by enrolling your child in any public school. In fact, if you wanted to do the research, you could find the most “progressive” states and move there. You could drop your child off at daycare from birth so that the chance of strong familial bonds will be minimized, while the opportunity for outside secular influences to replace the God given role of the primary educator in your child’s life will be maximized.

You could also refuse to gift your child with a sibling, whose very presence encourages the formation and expression of virtue.

You can even refuse to frequent the many Church’s in your area, and avoid any exposure to religion and protect your child from it’s beneficial influence and beatific destiny.

Your right to completely abuse and kill your child’s soul is safe and sound. While those who for the reason of faith and morals choose to homeschool right’s are in jeopordy. Can you not feel for these families whose rights are being violated at all, even if only in appreciation of the rights that you yourself have?

I am not saying you would do all these things, but I just wanted to reassure you that your freedom to choose secular indoctrination of your child is in NO danger of being banned. Nor, is it jeopordized in any way by your neighbor choosing a Catholic way for their own child.

So, since this thread is about banning homeschooling for religious and philisophical reasons I am wholeheartedly against that and that is that is the offical position of the Catholic Church as well.

Rome has spoken, sorry you don’t like it. And if you are not Catholic, you don’t have to accept it.

 

[Ana]

cont.

As for illiterates, drunkards, rapists and other unmentionables homeschooling, that is off topic. But although an illiterate would have more challenges homeschooling, I do not think it would be impossible depending on the circumstances such as the age of the child (many high school age homeschoolers learn pretty independently), outsourcing opportunities, tutors, etc.

As for drunkards homeschooling, they will probably not do a very effective job at parenting much less homeschooling and I think current laws are already in place to try to help the child in these situations. We could probably debate how effective they are, but I certainly don’t see how BANNING homeschool for RELIGIOUS reasons would help that problem anyway.

Unless of course, too you RELIGION is the problem. Then your position starts to make a little more sense.

God bless.

 

[WillieWonka]

I don’t think I know one person in all honesty who doesn’t want their children to have a good education…

And it still saddens me that you seem to think homeschooling parents are somewhat, ‘all’ illiterate, despite the fact that they attain something like 37 points higher than public students?

I’d definitely want to homeschool my children if I ever have any, modern public schools seem to focus on an exam-passing culture rather than actual knowledge… It saddens me.

God Bless.

Chris.

Is it your intention to quote me saying all home schooling parents are illiterate? I note the word “all” is enclosed in single quotes. Can you clairfy before I respond?

 

[WillieWonka]

Sounds good to me but let me give you a little more that three words.

I do absolutely! In fact, I think parents have not just a right but a responsibility to ensure that their kids are in the best feasible educational environment rather than just accepting public school as the defacto choice. It should be considered as one of the choices among many, including homeschooling.

As Catholics, until a few decades ago, we were required to keep our kids out of public school if there was a Catholic school available.

I think all parents have the right to raise their kids with knowledge in subject areas of their chosing. Now, if someone claimed they were homeschooling, but didn’t teach thier kids to read, they wouldn’t really be homeschooling. They would be lying and that’s wrong. But I think parents have the right to keep thier kids “illiterate” about some subjects or to chose when and how to introduce those subjects rather than follow a government timetable.

Kids are going to get educated one way or another. Short of locking them in the basement, that is. When parents rights conflict with the state’s interpretation of what the children should be taught, the presumption should go to the parents. There will be very rare cases where that presumption would be wrong but the overall benefit would be to the children by doing it that way.

“I think all parents have the right to raise their kids with knowledge in subject areas of their chosing. Now, if someone claimed they were homeschooling, but didn’t teach thier kids to read, they wouldn’t really be homeschooling. They would be lying and that’s wrong.”

In this case, does the state have the duty to step in and provide an education for the kid, even over the objections of the parent who claims to be home schooling?

“Kids are going to get educated one way or another. Short of locking them in the basement, that is. When parents rights conflict with the state’s interpretation of what the children should be taught, the presumption should go to the parents. There will be very rare cases where that presumption would be wrong but the overall benefit would be to the children by doing it that way”

In those very rare cases, does the state have the duty to step in and provide an education for the kid, even over the objections of the parent who claims to be home schooling?

 

[1catholic]

“I think all parents have the right to raise their kids with knowledge in subject areas of their chosing. Now, if someone claimed they were homeschooling, but didn’t teach thier kids to read, they wouldn’t really be homeschooling. They would be lying and that’s wrong.”

In this case, does the state have the duty to step in and provide an education for the kid, even over the objections of the parent who claims to be home schooling?

“Kids are going to get educated one way or another. Short of locking them in the basement, that is. When parents rights conflict with the state’s interpretation of what the children should be taught, the presumption should go to the parents. There will be very rare cases where that presumption would be wrong but the overall benefit would be to the children by doing it that way”

In those very rare cases, does the state have the duty to step in and provide an education for the kid, even over the objections of the parent who claims to be home schooling?

Unless I heard a convincing argument otherwise, I’d agree, but at the same time as soon as this power is made official, the government can step in whenever it deems fit, even if their timing is inappropriate.

 

[WillieWonka]

cont.

As for illiterates, drunkards, rapists and other unmentionables homeschooling, that is off topic. But although an illiterate would have more challenges homeschooling, I do not think it would be impossible depending on the circumstances such as the age of the child (many high school age homeschoolers learn pretty independently), outsourcing opportunities, tutors, etc.

As for drunkards homeschooling, they will probably not do a very effective job at parenting much less homeschooling and I think current laws are already in place to try to help the child in these situations. We could probably debate how effective they are, but I certainly don’t see how BANNING homeschool for RELIGIOUS reasons would help that problem anyway.

Unless of course, too you RELIGION is the problem. Then your position starts to make a little more sense.

God bless.

“Rome has spoken, sorry you don’t like it. And if you are not Catholic, you don’t have to accept it.”

The kid has a legal right to an education, and the state doesn’t care what Rome thinks. The kid’s right is not given or taken away by Rome. It doesn’t matter if one is Catholic. That’s how our system works. (Rome once spoke and said that Jews had to wear distinctive identifying cothes.)

*“But although an illiterate would have more challenges homeschooling, I do not think it would be impossible depending on the circumstances such as the age of the child (many high school age homeschoolers learn pretty independently), outsourcing opportunities, tutors, etc.” *

Can you tell us how an illiterate teaches a kid to read?

“As for drunkards homeschooling, they will probably not do a very effective job at parenting much less homeschooling and I think current laws are already in place to try to help the child in these situations.”

Do you support the right of the state to uphold the kid’s legal right to an education by preventing this parent form home shooling?

 

[1catholic]

“Rome has spoken, sorry you don’t like it. And if you are not Catholic, you don’t have to accept it.”

The kid has a legal right to an education, and the state doesn’t care what Rome thinks. The kid’s right is not given or taken away by Rome. It doesn’t matter if one is Catholic. That’s how our system works. (Rome once spoke and said that Jews had to wear distinctive identifying cothes.)

*“But although an illiterate would have more challenges homeschooling, I do not think it would be impossible depending on the circumstances such as the age of the child (many high school age homeschoolers learn pretty independently), outsourcing opportunities, tutors, etc.” *

Can you tell us how an illiterate teaches a kid to read?

“As for drunkards homeschooling, they will probably not do a very effective job at parenting much less homeschooling and I think current laws are already in place to try to help the child in these situations.”

Do you support the right of the state to uphold the kid’s legal right to an education by preventing this parent form home shooling?

There are ways to make sure a child is getting a good education at home. Required testing, etc, without taking away the parents’ right to oversee it.

 

[WillieWonka]

Unless I heard a convincing argument otherwise, I’d agree, but at the same time as soon as this power is made official, the government can step in whenever it deems fit, even if their timing is inappropriate.

I think we could look to existing laws on child protection to see the expected reach of government.