Sweden Moves to Ban Homeschooling for Religious or Philosophical Reasons

[Ana]

Willie, since you don’t care about homeschooling at all, except to lump them in with drunks, rapists, and illiterates, and you’ve stated your primary concern being the rights of the child … I would like to ask you a couple of questions.

What do you consider to be the legal rights of the child?

What are these rights based on?

In what situations would the rights of the child trump the rights of the parent?

What do you believe are the rights of the parents toward the child?

I would like to say that the rights of the parent to provide direction and make decisions for the child comes from the very fact that it was the parent’s that brought the child into existance. Not only that, but it is the parents who provide for the child’s needs sacrificing their time, money and their very selves… Food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. Not to mention the child’s emotional needs, the need for love, belonging to the family, safety etc.

You mentioned the child doesn’t belong tot he parents, or the state. I STRONGLY disagree with that. My children certainly are mine. In the same way that I am theirs. I don’t call anyone elses child “MY CHILD” and they don’t call anyone elses mother “MY MOTHER.” They belong to me and I belong to them by virtue of our relationship. Yes, I believe parents do have rights OVER their children.

I have the right to make house rules and expect my children to obey them, even if they don’t agree. I have the right to decide what to feed my child, no matter how much he cries for pop tarts. I pay for the food and do the shopping. I have the right to decide his or hers bedtime, as well as whether I want to sign them up for this or that sport, or whether I want to drive them there or not. I decide when their doctors and dentist appointments are because I am the one driving them there and paying them for it. I decide what religious values will be taught, promoted and lived at my house, not the child. I also decide what channels and programs would be watched on TV, not my children to their dismay. We pay the cable bill and our name is on the mortgage. But when they are OLDER and MOVED into their own home they will then have the power to make the decisions concerning THEIR home and their children and pop tarts.

The child is a complete dependant, existing within the family structure he/she was born into. Dependant on THE PARENTS for it’s needs, which according to this God given familial structure, places the children in obedience and obligation to the parents during childhood and adolescence, and requires the adult child to honor and respect his parents even unto old age. It is a very simple concept. Who brought who into existance?

There have been bad parents since the beginning of time. Yet, the familial structure still exists and goes on as the cell and foundation of society. Say good bye to the family unit, say goodbye to civilization.

 

[WillieWonka]

I get the very implication from the factor that I rarely see you give any form of praise for those whom are capable of homeschooling and either hide them or reduce them amongst the many ‘illiterates’ you seem to state, it does appear to me that you seem to be targeting quite a large percentage of those seeking homeschooling as ‘illiterate’.

On the other hand, I rarely hear negativity about the state sanctioned schools themselves, and mainly a large volume of praise.

This is my personal interpretation where ‘all’ seems to merge.

God Bless.

Chris.

You are correct I am not giving praise. That is because I am talking about how to deal with the subset of problems.

Can you tell me how you determine the size of the percentage home schooling parents I describe as illiterate?

 

[WillieWonka]

Also ironically for the idea that public schools will protect the child from illiteracy and force of abusive parents, drugged or drunk:

It doesn’t stop the very thing happening to students in public schools.

Do you think these were influenced by the ‘drunk’, ‘doped’ parents that you seem to largely associate with homeschooling parents?

God Bless.

Chris.

Make your point in your comments. Since I don’t know what you are talking about from your comment, I have no reason to read the link.

 

[st_lucy]

You are correct I am not giving praise. That is because I am talking about how to deal with the subset of problems.

Can you tell me how you determine the size of the percentage home schooling parents I describe as illiterate?

Well, just by looking at the stats on hs vs traditionally schooled children I would have to say that that percentage is rather small.

 

[Ana]

You are correct I am not giving praise. That is because I am talking about how to deal with the subset of problems.

No, I don’t hink you are. Homeschooling has it’s pros and cons and potential for particular problems. Public schooling has it’s pros (to some) and cons and potential for particular problems. You ignore the benefits of homeschooling, and concentrate on the rare and few loser homeschool parents. You’re solution to the potential for homeschooling problems is to enroll the child in public school without addressing the potential problems of the supposed solution itself. You’re argument is narrow, and intellectually dishonest, so I am not sure how you feel that you can adequately deal with a subset of problems within the homeschooling community of which it is clear you know nothing about. All of the information you have gained concerning homeschooling laws and such has been given to you by the homeschooling parentshere in this thread. Don’t you think it makes sense to learn a little about something before you attempt to attack a small “sub set” of problems within a branch of knowledge of which (from your posts) you know next to nothing?

Do you have children? Are you religious? Why are you so interested in the goings on of Catholic homeschoolers which have no impact on you or your life since you are nto even considering homeschooling in the near future.

It is clear that you have your mind made up since you began posting. It is apparent to anyone who wants to scroll back and reread your habit of ignoring questions posed to you while focusing on one issue so when someone FINALLY says they don’t feel the goverment should take away the child ypou GLEEFULLY like a little child jump up and down and start pointing… “See, I told you some would sacrifice the children!!” And that was a stretch because nowhere in that post did it speak of sacrificing the children, only that the government should take the approach of helping the family be functional instead of removing the child.

And since by your own admission, you could care less about homeschooling … why are you so interested in a small subset of problems. Do you feel called to help out with the homeschool movement?

Or do you hate it?

You cannot claim indifference, as you have way too many posts to claim indifference.

So, you don’t care enough to defend it. Could you please state why you care enough to attempt to undermine it?

 

[Ana]

Make your point in your comments. Since I don’t know what you are talking about from your comment, I have no reason to read the link.

If you are going to participate in a discussion about schooling, you should do a little basic research instead of expecting all of us here to educate you enough so that you can have a reasonable discussion on the topic. I think it is reasonable to provide you with links so that you can further understand what is being discussed. I think it is unreasonable of you, childish, and lazy to expect us to teach you what you can read yourself.

 

[Ana]

You are correct I am not giving praise. That is because I am talking about how to deal with the subset of problems.

Can you tell me how you determine the size of the percentage home schooling parents I describe as illiterate?

So they are going to take my children out of my drunk house and place them in a room filled with the children of other drunk parents. How again is this addressing the problem of drunk parenting? Or is it only addressing the problem of drunk homeschooling, but since the drunk parents in school are okay, I am led to believe it is not the drunkeness you have a problem with, but with the homeschooling part.

The devil in you is wise to recognize the danger of an increase of virtue from close, religious, homeschooing families. Thanks for the compliment and the reminder just how important our calling is.

 

[WillieWonka]

Willie, since you don’t care about homeschooling at all, except to lump them in with drunks, rapists, and illiterates, and you’ve stated your primary concern being the rights of the child … I would like to ask you a couple of questions.

What do you consider to be the legal rights of the child?

What are these rights based on?

In what situations would the rights of the child trump the rights of the parent?

What do you believe are the rights of the parents toward the child?

I would like to say that the rights of the parent to provide direction and make decisions for the child comes from the very fact that it was the parent’s that brought the child into existance. Not only that, but it is the parents who provide for the child’s needs sacrificing their time, money and their very selves… Food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. Not to mention the child’s emotional needs, the need for love, belonging to the family, safety etc.

You mentioned the child doesn’t belong tot he parents, or the state. I STRONGLY disagree with that. My children certainly are mine. In the same way that I am theirs. I don’t call anyone elses child “MY CHILD” and they don’t call anyone elses mother “MY MOTHER.” They belong to me and I belong to them by virtue of our relationship. Yes, I believe parents do have rights OVER their children.

I have the right to make house rules and expect my children to obey them, even if they don’t agree. I have the right to decide what to feed my child, no matter how much he cries for pop tarts. I pay for the food and do the shopping. I have the right to decide his or hers bedtime, as well as whether I want to sign them up for this or that sport, or whether I want to drive them there or not. I decide when their doctors and dentist appointments are because I am the one driving them there and paying them for it. I decide what religious values will be taught, promoted and lived at my house, not the child. I also decide what channels and programs would be watched on TV, not my children to their dismay. We pay the cable bill and our name is on the mortgage. But when they are OLDER and MOVED into their own home they will then have the power to make the decisions concerning THEIR home and their children and pop tarts.

The child is a complete dependant, existing within the family structure he/she was born into. Dependant on THE PARENTS for it’s needs, which according to this God given familial structure, places the children in obedience and obligation to the parents during childhood and adolescence, and requires the adult child to honor and respect his parents even unto old age. It is a very simple concept. Who brought who into existance?

There have been bad parents since the beginning of time. Yet, the familial structure still exists and goes on as the cell and foundation of society. Say good bye to the family unit, say goodbye to civilization.

State law says kids have to be educated. State law says a kid has a legal right to an education. These rights are based on the fact that the legislature passed a law and the governor signed it in complance with both state and ferederal constitutions.

I can’t give a general rule about how conflicting rights are settled. A good place to start is by determining if the rights in question are legal rights or based on something else.

Courts generally uphold the parents rights to make decisions for the kid even if those decisions are not in the kid’s best interests. However, they do not allow the parent to violate the kid’s basic rights set forth in law.

You certainly have a relationship to your kid, but you also do not have complete control over what is done to the kid. The kid has legal rights and the state will prevent you from acting contrary to those rights. You don’t own him. It doesn’t matter what you think or what religion says.

 

[WillieWonka]

No, I don’t hink you are. Homeschooling has it’s pros and cons and potential for particular problems. Public schooling has it’s pros (to some) and cons and potential for particular problems. You ignore the benefits of homeschooling, and concentrate on the rare and few loser homeschool parents. You’re solution to the potential for homeschooling problems is to enroll the child in public school without addressing the potential problems of the supposed solution itself. You’re argument is narrow, and intellectually dishonest, so I am not sure how you feel that you can adequately deal with a subset of problems within the homeschooling community of which it is clear you know nothing about. All of the information you have gained concerning homeschooling laws and such has been given to you by the homeschooling parentshere in this thread. Don’t you think it makes sense to learn a little about something before you attempt to attack a small “sub set” of problems within a branch of knowledge of which (from your posts) you know next to nothing?

Do you have children? Are you religious? Why are you so interested in the goings on of Catholic homeschoolers which have no impact on you or your life since you are nto even considering homeschooling in the near future.

It is clear that you have your mind made up since you began posting. It is apparent to anyone who wants to scroll back and reread your habit of ignoring questions posed to you while focusing on one issue so when someone FINALLY says they don’t feel the goverment should take away the child ypou GLEEFULLY like a little child jump up and down and start pointing… “See, I told you some would sacrifice the children!!” And that was a stretch because nowhere in that post did it speak of sacrificing the children, only that the government should take the approach of helping the family be functional instead of removing the child.

And since by your own admission, you could care less about homeschooling … why are you so interested in a small subset of problems. Do you feel called to help out with the homeschool movement?

Or do you hate it?

You cannot claim indifference, as you have way too many posts to claim indifference.

So, you don’t care enough to defend it. Could you please state why you care enough to attempt to undermine it?

My parental status or religion have nothing to do with protecting the right sof kids to an education.

I reject the notion that only those actively engaged in a social activity are allowed to comment on it. As responsible members of society I hope we are all concerned with the kid’s legal right to an education.

I am ignoring the benefits of home schooling. That’s because I am discusisng the problems. That’s my choice. You are free to discuss the benefits if you choose.

While I don’t care about home schooling, I do care about the right of kid to an education.

I feel no call to help the home school movement.

Since I dont care about home schooling, I certainly don’t hate it.

I don’t care enough about home schooling to undermine it. It doesn’t matter. Only the legal right of the kid to an education matters.

I believe I have answered all the questions asked of me. I may not have done it precisely as ordered by the questioner, but I think I have done it. If I have missed any, please list them and I will consider them.

 

[WillieWonka]

If you are going to participate in a discussion about schooling, you should do a little basic research instead of expecting all of us here to educate you enough so that you can have a reasonable discussion on the topic. I think it is reasonable to provide you with links so that you can further understand what is being discussed. I think it is unreasonable of you, childish, and lazy to expect us to teach you what you can read yourself.

I have no expectations of you. I ask nothing of you.

 

[WillieWonka]

So they are going to take my children out of my drunk house and place them in a room filled with the children of other drunk parents. How again is this addressing the problem of drunk parenting? Or is it only addressing the problem of drunk homeschooling, but since the drunk parents in school are okay, I am led to believe it is not the drunkeness you have a problem with, but with the homeschooling part.

The devil in you is wise to recognize the danger of an increase of virtue from close, religious, homeschooing families. Thanks for the compliment and the reminder just how important our calling is.

The problem is not association with chlldren who have drunk parents. The problem is allowing those drunk parents to home school, where the drunken condition interferes with the ability to educate.

It’s not addressing the problem of drunk parenting.It is addressing the problem of insuring the kid has an opportunity to exercise his right to an education.

If the public school teacher is drunk on a couch at the front of the classroom, that would be a problem. But it’s not a problem to simply associate with a kid who has drunk parents on the couch at home.

The devil says, “You’re Welcome.”

 

[Ana]

My parental status or religion have nothing to do with protecting the right sof kids to an education.

No, but it perspective does change when it is YOUR child. Just as speculating about what to do with someone elses money may change when it is actually your money that you worked for. But I do agree that everyone benefits from children being educated well.

I reject the notion that only those actively engaged in a social activity are allowed to comment on it. As responsible members of society I hope we are all concerned with the kid’s legal right to an education.

 

[CGDouglas]

Make your point in your comments. Since I don’t know what you are talking about from your comment, I have no reason to read the link.

Then I shall summarize it:

Children, whether home-schooled, or public schooled, still can suffer from the same consequences from the actions of parents on drugs and alcohol. In the end, it all sums down to the ability of a responsible parent.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[Ana]

The problem is not association with chlldren who have drunk parents. The problem is allowing those drunk parents to home school, where the drunken condition interferes with the ability to educate.

It’s not addressing the problem of drunk parenting. It is addressing the problem of insuring the kid has an opportunity to exercise his right to an education.

If the public school teacher is drunk on a couch at the front of the classroom, that would be a problem. But it’s not a problem to simply associate with a kid who has drunk parents on the couch at home.

.I am sorry, but I really believe the stress for a child living in a home poisoned by alcoholic parents would seriously effect his ability to learn, even in a public school, which also interferes with a kids right to an education and this on an even deeper level.

So what do you suggest the solution is to lessen the impact of drunken parents so that kids can be emotionally healthy enough to learn?

I was wondering what has led you to believe that drunken homeschooling is a significant problem?

 

[WillieWonka]

No, but it perspective does change when it is YOUR child. Just as speculating about what to do with someone elses money may change when it is actually your money that you worked for. But I do agree that everyone benefits from children being educated well.

I didn’t say that one has to be a homeschooler to discuss homeschooling, but it does help to have done some research or know a little of what you are talking about in the context of the subjest being discussed. That is the same logic used by you to determine that an illiterate cannot teach someone to read. You clearly think it is (name removed by moderator)ortant to have some background knowledge on the subject being discussed, so I think you can in the same way acknowledge that if you would like to discuss homeschooling you should have some basic knowledge about it. Agreed?

And if we were going to delve deeper into homeschooling by discussing issues pertaining to problems in homeschooling and potential solutions, I would think you need to have more than a basic knowledge … just common sense.

But if you were TRULY concerned about not only the child’s right to a good education, but a child’s right to the BEST education available, then in order to discuss it intelligently, you would need to have more than a passing knowledge of the different types of schooling available, as well as the pros and cons of each.

Homeschooling IS educating. Public school is educating. Private school is educating. Are you just as concerned with the kids right to an education that attend public schools? Many many high school graduates cannot do basic math (giving change) or read well. Coincidently homeschoolers outscore their public school counterparts consistantly

 

[WillieWonka]

Then I shall summarize it:

Children, whether home-schooled, or public schooled, still can suffer from the same consequences from the actions of parents on drugs and alcohol. In the end, it all sums down to the ability of a responsible parent.

God Bless.

Chris.

I agree both home and public schooling can fail.

I agree many responsible parents can be very effective in ensuring a kid is educated.

I observe not all parents are responsible.

 

[WillieWonka]

.I am sorry, but I really believe the stress for a child living in a home poisoned by alcoholic parents would seriously effect his ability to learn, even in a public school, which also interferes with a kids right to an education and this on an even deeper level.

So what do you suggest the solution is to lessen the impact of drunken parents so that kids can be emotionally healthy enough to learn?

I was wondering what has led you to believe that drunken homeschooling is a significant problem?

General parental drunkeness is a topic I don’t choose to discuss.

I think anything that violates a kid’s legal right to an education is significant.

 

[CGDouglas]

I agree both home and public schooling can fail.

I agree many responsible parents can be very effective in ensuring a kid is educated.

I observe not all parents are responsible.

Do you also agree that solvents, alcohol, drugs, etc can all have a severe impact upon a child’s education?

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[1catholic]

General parental drunkeness is a topic I don’t choose to discuss.

I think anything that violates a kid’s legal right to an education is significant.

What about a parents legal right to be parents?

I get that you don’t “care” as long as the kids get educated. But as the thread was originally on Sweden (not the US) where home schooling might be banned for “religious or philosophical reasons” don’t the parents here have the right to teach there kids (since we are not discussing drunkenness or abuse)

 

[Michael_C]

I wish the parents who are fully capable of teaching the best of luck if they choose to home school.

That’s very nice that you wish them the best of luck, unfortunately Sweden won’t wish them luck.

Instead the State will require the parent to prove there are extraordinary circumstances like the article says.

You continue to blur the issue.