Taylor Marshall's video on Fratelli Tutti- am I missing something or is TM being disingenuous...?

[pnewton]

The rules for writing an encyclical are determined by…

… wait, there are no such rules for writing an encyclical. No one who concentrates on the inane will ever learn anything. There have always been those who reject the teaching of the various Popes that have preceded Pope Francis. TM is not unique.

 

[TK421]

TM has built a career on being disingenuous

I read his “Thomas Aquinas in 50 pages” book and it was actually pretty good. It’s tragic because he could be a really good writer and speaker for the Church if he wanted to be, but unfortunately his charism is being squandered on diatribes against the Pope.

 

[Genesis315]

Name me some false narratives then? Ghandi and MLK are not examples of being a proper Catholic. Francis is misleading you.

They weren’t mentioned as models of being a proper Catholic. But rather as examples of non-Catholics who understood the particular idea the Pope was writing about. There is a two fold order of nature and grace, of truths known from natural reason, and those that can be known only from revelation. The topic of this encyclical–the unity of the human family–has as its primary basis a truth accessible to all, even those without faith: the common origin of all men in general, as well as truths flowing from it (like the universal destination of goods). The listing of those persons seemed intended to demonstrate this accessibility and as something not limited to those with the orthodox faith. Bl. Charles de Foucauld was given as the model of one illumined by faith (“a proper Catholic” so to speak).

While the Pope does address in a few places how revelation can further illuminate this truth (and he has done so more elsewhere) I do understand the desire for him to have done so more here. However, he seemed content to mostly deal with this topic at the level of natural reason. There’s nothing wrong with that given the subject matter.

 

[FrankFletcher]

There is not much Catholic about the way USCCB conducts business lately has there eh? And prove me wrong. Dr. Taylor is 100% correct. No need to doubt him at all.

This is why Marshall is a problem: though there are issues with the bishops, as Catholics we can’t assume that a layman supersedes their authority. I don’t know that Marshall has ever fully outgrown his Protestantism in this regard.

Personally, once I saw his dimly lit video in which he speaks directly to and questions Pope Francis, I knew I had to disengage for the safety of my soul.

 

[Gab123]

Realize that most of his shows have become vehicles for false narratives that build on gossip and fake news. For example, he goes on about the “pachamama” in the Vatican gardens and builds all sorts of false slanderous narrative which then spread on the Internet with others feeding off each other and leading Catholics and non Catholics alike to distrust and suspect the pope. Lifesite’s John Henry Westen, Taylor Marshall and others showed clips of the natives in the Vatican Gardens bowing around the traditional mandala with native symbols of life in the Amazonia. That event was built into the false accusation that they were worshipping pagan idols, which then grew into narratives of enthroning demons, and the pope endorsing earth worship etc.

In reality, the natives were Catholics and were praising God for the gift of His creation. The native lady leading the group looks up and praises God and then they all bow. That video clip was cut short to make it look as if they were bowing down to the wooden statues, which was the false narrative.

The natives were invited to come to the Vatican in the wake of the pope’s visit to the Amazonia, where he exhorted them to hold fast to the Catholic Faith in the face of the aggressive push by organizations that promote what the pope calls “ideological colonizations” that destroy the family and cultures through ideologies masquerading as progress, i.e. abortion, Contraception, gender theory, and all the ideologies that have poisoned western culture.

The internet and YouTube talking heads Like Marshall ran with clips slandering them as if the natives were pagans invited to worship their false idols in the Vatican. To this day Taylor Marshall will show pictures of the event as a way to continue to tarnish pope. But it’s all fake news.

Here is a video of the event. If you know Spanish and Italian you will realize that it is thoroughly centered in Jesus Christ through Saint Francis ‘s Canticle of the Sun sung at the ceremony. The Canticle of the Sun in its praise of God thanks Him for creation.

 

[pnewton]

So Pop Francis specifically says that they are not Catholics, making the accusation that they are examples of proper Catholics a blantant … “that which is not true.”

 

[Gab123]

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[PatienceAndHumility]

instead this guy uses it to spread gossip and calumny.

Yep. And unfortunately he has gained much traction with the rightfully disgruntled impressionable Catholics out there who are suffering from the faulty implementations of V2.

Dr. Taylor is 100% correct. No need to doubt him at all.

Swept by the Taylor Marshall wind?

I read his “Thomas Aquinas in 50 pages” book and it was actually pretty good. It’s tragic because he could be a really good writer and speaker for the Church if he wanted to be, but unfortunately his charism is being squandered on diatribes against the Pope.

Amen. Well put.

 

[aroosi]

I don’t understand TM anymore. Listening to him recently you may wonder if Trump is now his pope and Pope Francis his enemy. Very odd.

 

[otjm]

Please let me know your thoughts!

You have just described a perfect reason to never go back to the website.

He may not be the last person on earth I would turn to for information, but he is seriously close to that last person.

 

[BigBoom]

Can anyone actually deny that Fratelli Tutti promotes religious indifferentism because it considers any religion as a good for societies?

 

[BigBoom]

When writing in the eighth chapter on fraternal relations among religions, Pope Francis endorses a sense that all religions are good and even can “witness to God.”

“From our faith experience and from the wisdom accumulated over centuries,” he writes, “but also from lessons learned from our many weaknesses and failures, we, the believers of the different religions, know that our witness to God benefits our societies.”

How can a religion that does not adore the Holy Trinity or acknowledge the Incarnation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, give “witness to God,”? This definitely seems to be promoting religious indifferentism.

 

[pnewton]

Yes. I will.

 

[pnewton]

and even can “witness to God.”

and even can “witness to God.”

“Can”

benefits our societies.”

“Benefits”

I suggest you look up what “indifferentism” means.

 

[Motherwit]

Can anyone actually deny that Fratelli Tutti promotes religious indifferentism because it considers any religion as a good for societies?

Have you ever come across a truly classy person? They are ones who have something very special but not because they go around telling everyone they are superior, on the contrary, others are esteemed and edified by their interaction with them. In turn, the personis esteemed and loved for the specialness of their own humble confidence.

This is typified in the Person of Jesus. Pope St JPII had such a charism and was responsible simply by that charism for a huge number of true conversions. Unfortunately this is something that the prince of the world hates more than anything and as we know, it resulted in the death of Christ and sadly in the rise of sedevacantism during the papacy of Pope JPII.

Some people hate true class and try and make our faith about hate and gutter talk.

 

[twf]

Your last sentence is interesting. This thread is about Taylor Marshal’s strong criticism of Pope Francis’ latest magisterial text… based on what you just said, we must, naturally, give far more credence to this latest encyclical than to TM’s critique of it… yet I don’t think that’s what some do…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s tragic because he could be a really good writer and speaker for the Church if he wanted to be, but unfortunately his charism is being squandered on diatribes against the Pope.

It seems like a lot of these guys start out fairly normal but end up radicalized in some way. Patrick Coffin is another one that comes to mind.

I’m never sure whether they radicalize because they actually believe the stuff they say/ post, or whether they discover there’s more money in it than just being a nice middle-of-the-road apologist.

I agree that Taylor Marshall has written some useful works on traditional Church philosophy and practices, most such works being a few years old. I have zero use for his extreme writings or Pope-bashing though.

 

[Gab123]

How can a religion that does not adore the Holy Trinity or acknowledge the Incarnation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, give “witness to God,”? This definitely seems to be promoting religious indifferentism.

The Church teaches that there is a trace if truth in all religions, with some having more than others, thus as Nostra Aetate explains:

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

Archbishop Fulton J Sheen explains On his blackboard how there is some truth in all religions. See this below video at minute 14:20

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yeah, Bishop Barron only gets away with it because he doesn’t have to worry about where his paycheck is coming from, or about supporting a family, or even about getting an audience given that he’s a fairly high profile bishop.

One of the other things I’ve noticed is that a lot of these people are like that song “You Gotta Have a Gimmick” from the musical “Gypsy”. They all tend to have a couple themes they beat out on their drum over and over again.

 

[TK421]

It seems like a lot of these guys start out fairly normal but end up radicalized in some way. Patrick Coffin is another one that comes to mind.

I’m never sure whether they radicalize because they actually believe the stuff they say/ post, or whether they discover there’s more money in it than just being a nice middle-of-the-road apologist.

I agree that Taylor Marshall has written some useful works on traditional Church philosophy and practices, most such works being a few years old. I have zero use for his extreme writings or Pope-bashing though.

My theory is that they are mostly normal with these tinges in them that are off, and then they write something more edgy in a blog or in one part of a book that ends up attracting a lot of attention and generating conversation and then brings in praise from a vocal group of people, followed by more views/sales, followed by more money, and this makes them feel good and gives them validation about their beliefs, and then it snowballs from there into more and more.

edit: honestly, if I took the time I could make a book about it arguing my case but I’m not sure I could get it to sell.