Ted Cruz Dropping Out of Republican Presidential Race

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Saddly, I don’t believe it ever did exist in the core reasons for the Republican Party. I honastly beleive it was just how they got support and votes to keep unbridled capitalism in place.

A while back, not sure how many years ago it was, I got the impression that the Republican and Democratic parties were actually on the same side playing us for fools by playing into our personal agendas, noble and not so noble ones, to push forth thier agenda of enslaving us all. Left me in a very black hole untill I realized that just as much as there are those who are on both sides working to enslave us all there are those on bothe sides fighting them trying to beet them at thier own game and even this became something to be played and exploited for votes. Now it is a huge mess and right now it looks like the ones who are out to try and enslave us all are winning. Maybe so. But I do have faith and great hope that all things work unto good in the end.
I think we have to be careful when we bash capitalism–it has brought many blessings. Uncontrolled capitalism is a different story. I also think those in the conservative movement did have lofty ideals, at one time. I think most Republicans no longer share those ideals.
 
:eek: What! But surely capitalism is preferred to socialism which is condemned by the Church thus Christ? How can you be a socialist and be more like Christ?

If the democrats morphed any more left we would have to send them to a communist country. 😛
You don’t have to be a socialist or a capitalist to be more Christ like. I beleive both systems, in the context that you seem to be using them, are anti-Christ-like.

And personally, from the way people have explain socialism and capitalism to me, we need our laws to reflect some of the good in both in order to have our laws cover subsidiarity and solidarity the way I understand the Church advises us.
 
I think we have to be careful when we bash capitalism–it has brought many blessings. Uncontrolled capitalism is a different story. I also think those in the conservative movement did have lofty ideals, at one time. I think most Republicans no longer share those ideals.
Capitalism may have had some good intentions but it became a tool to exploit and to enslave others.
 
Capitalism may have had some good intentions but it became a tool to exploit and to enslave others.
There are no man created systems that cannot be turned to the bad. However, the entire western culture has flourished thanks to capitalism. In recent times we have seen some heavy abuse, yet that does not condemn the system, rather it condemns those doing the abusing. Also, many times it is politicians who craft laws that end-up harming people.
 
You don’t have to be a socialist or a capitalist to be more Christ like. I beleive both systems, in the context that you seem to be using them, are anti-Christ-like.
How so, truth is I’m trying to understand what you mean by either, it depends on what you mean by the qualifier; “unbridled” and in relation too…
But that makes me wonder just how authentic conservatism really is and if it really is Christ-like to be what people consider authentic conservatism.
And it depends on what you mean by socialism. Socialism as defined by the Church is condemned. How one defines it here may be plausible. 🤷
 
How so, truth is I’m trying to understand what you mean by either, it depends on what you mean by the qualifier; “unbridled” and in relation too…

And it depends on what you mean by socialism. Socialism as defined by the Church is condemned. How one defines it here may be plausible. 🤷
See that’s the thing, so many people like to go around condemning socialism and yet if you have some one who says they are a socialist or believe in a socialist form of government and try to have them explain what they understand socialism to mean they seem to see and understand it more along the lines as how the Church teaches us that we should have solidarity and subsidiarity verses what the Church condemns as being socialism.
 
See that’s the thing, so many people like to go around condemning socialism and yet if you have some one try to explain what they understand socialism to mean they seem to see and understand it more along the lines as how the Church teaches us that we should have solidarity and subsidiarity verses what the Church condemns as being socialism.
I think what you are missing is the personal freedom that capitalism provides. Sure, there are abuses, and yes sometimes people are on the lower levels of the economic strata when they live under capitalism. But, what capitalism honors is free will and the ability to make one’s own destiny. Along with comes the freedom to worship God in any way one so chooses. Even this very place to talk on the internet comes to us from a capitalistic system. It is the pursuit of profit that caused the internet to take off. All the medical and technological advances we enjoy bound from a capitalistic foundation.
 
See that’s the thing, so many people like to go around condemning socialism and yet if you have some one try to explain what they understand socialism to mean they seem to see and understand it more along the lines as how the Church teaches us that we should have solidarity and subsidiarity verses what the Church condemns as being socialism.
I see your mind is thinking in the terms of capitalism-socialism today, surely you have something on your mind? Rarely I understand what people mean from a socialist perspective so I naturally rely on Church teaching as 2000 have for sure given prudence to their thinks. As for capitalism I agree with irishpatrick.

But I mean something is bothering you in relation specifically?
 
A Republican Congress could have written and passed legislation giving 14th amendment rights to fetuses. There would have been no need for an amendment or for the SC to rule on challenge to Roe v. Wade. They had that chance under Bush–for a very brief window. I don’t see Trump ever supporting or signing such a bill.

Buuuut

We must understand that many Republicans get abortions. They fornicate, and divorce and living together, etc. They are not going to vote for someone who might actually work to take the legal right to abortion away. As with most Catholics having become part of the world’s mainstream, so too are most Republicans.
I don’t understand how that would be able to stand. From what I’ve read pro-lifers already believe the fourteenth amendment provides protection for the unborn and it is Roe v Wade that has to be overturned.
 
There are no man created systems that cannot be turned to the bad. However, the entire western culture has flourished thanks to capitalism. In recent times we have seen some heavy abuse, yet that does not condemn the system, rather it condemns those doing the abusing. Also, many times it is politicians who craft laws that end-up harming people.
I don’t believe the entire western culture has flourished. But I do believe we may not be looking at it the same way. A lot of people were just ignored and left behind while the entire western culture flourished. And they were just as much a part of the entire western culture as everyone else.
 
I don’t understand how that would be able to stand. From what I’ve read pro-lifers already believe the fourteenth amendment provides protection for the unborn and it is Roe v Wade that has to be overturned.
To my knowledge, Congress would have to write the law in such a way that would not allow review by the Supreme Court. Congress is supposed to have the Constitutional authority to define jurisdiction.

Article 3 Section 2 Paragraph 2:

“In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.”
 
I don’t want to wade into this quagmire, but there is one aspect of this discussion that really bothers me. Treating the Trump position, that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape and incest, as fundamentally different from the Democrat stance is a grave error in my eyes.

There is no practical way to investigate whether or not a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest or some other allowed exception. For practical purposes such a stance should be read “abortion should be allowed, because people get pregnant from rape and incest”. Abortions will never be limited to such cases, but such cases give cover to being pro-choice.

So Trump is pro-choice, not “pro-life with exceptions”. The Republican party is clearly moving, or has already moved, to a de-facto pro-choice position. There will be no reversal of Roe v. Wade with this party, no limiting of abortions on a national level. Pro-lifers should not feel beholden to a political party that is functionally pro-choice, but panders to the pro-life position for religious votes. It is a toxic relationship that has saved no lives, and done nothing to reverse abortion laws nationally.

The fact that Trump, an avowed pro-choicer, is the presumptive Republican nominee should put to rest the political association between pro-lifers and the Republican party. Vote Republican if you agree with the party, obviously, but I think the moral arguments utilizing abortion should be set aside now.

Frankly, I think the propensity of pro-lifers to vote Republican regardless of actual work being to stop abortions nationally has cost us dearly.

Peace and God bless!
 
I don’t want to wade into this quagmire, but there is one aspect of this discussionthat really bothers me. Treating the Trump position, that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape and incest, as fundamentally different from the Democrat stance is a grave error in my eyes.

There is no practical way to investigate whether or not a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest or some other allowed exception. For practical purposes such a stance should be read “abortion should be allowed, because people get pregnant from rape and incest”. Abortions will never be limited to such cases, but such cases give cover to being pro-choice.

So Trump is pro-choice, not “pro-life with exceptions”. The Republican party is clearly moving, or has already moved, to a de-facto pro-choice position. There will be no reversal of Roe v. Wade with this party, no limiting of abortions on a national level. Pro-lifers should not feel beholden to a political party that is functionally pro-choice, but panders to the pro-life position for religious votes. It is a toxic relationship that has saved no lives, and done nothing to reverse abortion laws nationally.

The fact that Trump, an avowed pro-choicer, is the presumptive Republican nominee should put to rest the political association between pro-lifers and the Republican party. Vote Republican if you agree with the party, obviously, but I think the moral arguments utilizing abortion should be set aside now.

Frankly, I think the propensity of pro-lifers to vote Republican regardless of actual work being to stop abortions nationally has cost us dearly.

Peace and God bless!
You said it far better than I have.

The Republican Party, along with Trump, and the majority of its voters, are not pro-life.
 
I don’t understand how that would be able to stand. From what I’ve read pro-lifers already believe the fourteenth amendment provides protection for the unborn and it is Roe v Wade that has to be overturned.
I know it’s been a while since I read the Roe v Wade documents but what I remember is it stating clearly that if it was ever determined or established in the future that the unborn were indeed a person as defined in the fourteenth amendment it would automatically revoke the right to abortion. Period. The rest of Roe v Wade would stand. Like the part about a woman haveing the right to choose her own coarse of medical treatment for her own body. From what I understand Roe v Wade does not need to be overturned. It just needs to be understood correctly so that the unborn are recognized as being a person or having personhood as every other child is, the right to abortion on demand is gone with out Roe v Wade being overturned just implemented so the it recognizes the women’s and unborn child’s personhood.
 
There is no practical way to investigate whether or not a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest
Absolutely not true as DNA for sure solves this issue. Further why would anyone suggest Trumps own words are not true but Hillary and the rest are. That argument is a straw man. 🤷
 
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